[diegogo]

are the views compatible?
are they the same?
if not, how different?

plus, is it an accepted ruling from both sides that one cannot pray behind the other in jamaat? or are there any minor opinions that say otherwise?

why am i asking the second question:
from a secular's article:
"Pray tell: Photograph showing late Pir Pagara talking to the press at the Karachi Press Club in 1977. Pagara was heading a right-wing movement against the Z. A. Bhutto regime.
Here he is seen talking to the press (surrounded by some members of the Jamat-i-Islami, Jamat Ulema Islam and Jamiat Ulema Pakistan).
The men then got up to say their evening prayers.
However, a commotion broke out between the religious leaders of the movement when JI and JUI men refused to pray behind JUP leader, Shah Noorani.
JUI was inclined towards Sunni Deobandi school of thought whereas Noorani was from the pro-Barelvi JUP. Though united in their opposition to Bhutto’s ‘socialism’, both men thought the other was a ‘misguided Muslim.’

this isnt helpful. liberals, apologists, modernists always quote this.

important thing is: can they unite if there is an islamic shariah govt in pakistan even if they cant pray behind one another?

[meencegic]

are the views compatible?
are they the same?
if not, how different?

plus, is it an accepted ruling from both sides that one cannot pray behind the other in jamaat? or are there any minor opinions that say otherwise?

why am i asking the second question:
from a secular's article:
"Pray tell: Photograph showing late Pir Pagara talking to the press at the Karachi Press Club in 1977. Pagara was heading a right-wing movement against the Z. A. Bhutto regime.
Here he is seen talking to the press (surrounded by some members of the Jamat-i-Islami, Jamat Ulema Islam and Jamiat Ulema Pakistan).
The men then got up to say their evening prayers.
However, a commotion broke out between the religious leaders of the movement when JI and JUI men refused to pray behind JUP leader, Shah Noorani.
JUI was inclined towards Sunni Deobandi school of thought whereas Noorani was from the pro-Barelvi JUP. Though united in their opposition to Bhutto’s ‘socialism’, both men thought the other was a ‘misguided Muslim.’

this isnt helpful. liberals, apologists, modernists always quote this.

important thing is: can they unite if there is an islamic shariah govt in pakistan even if they cant pray behind one another?

JI not praying behind Noorani? It is surprising as JI's can even pray behind Shias so whats the big deal about Barelvis? Shah Ahmad Noorani ra was the last (and may be the first) sensible person who was called barelvi. Not only with the deobandis but Shah Ahmad Noorani was a close friend of Allama Ehsaan Elahi zaheer ra who was the uncrowned king of Ahli Hadees in Pakistan then. Shah Ahmad Noorani ra not only united stood united with the rest of the Islamic groups in the movement against Qadyanis but he struggled against Bhutto with them as well. His political party known as JUP has become irrelevant and ignorable now. It has split into many fragments and has no political importance. Shah Anas Noorani and Sahibzada Abul Zubair of JUP do appear in the rallies of Islamic parties even now.

The rest of the barelvis are a mess when it comes to Islamic government and politics. The most venomous attacks on the first and most notable freedom fighter against the british was Shah Ismaail Shaheed ra. He was the first notable Muslim to have a plane to get rid of the british regime and establish Khilafat in the subcontinent. The worthless barelvi scholars of the past and present have left no stone unturned to abuse him and castigate him. Calling him kaffir is and sending lanat on him is something usual. The opposition of Jihaad , impracticality and passiveness is innate in the religion of Raza khan.

The best example of Barelvis opposition towards Islam and Islamic system surfaced during the swat fiasco. The Taliban are Hanafis and they wanted to establish Islamic system in Swat. Ofcourse Fiqh e hanafi was going to be implemented there but they barelvis opposed it. They staged rallies against it. In a TV hosted by Dr Shahid masood , the chairman of Sunni tehreek was asked that why does he oppose the Islamic system in Taliban when he himself is a Hanafi and Taliban are going to implement the Hanafi Fiqh? The response was that Taliban belong to an evil sect and nothing from the evil can be accepted. The Same Barelvi Suuni Tehreek has sided with Shias against Deobandis in Karachi. The same chief barelvi tehreek surprisingly sided with a liberal fascist lady of Pakistan , Farzana Bari , against Maulana Ahmad Ludyanvi db of Sipaah e Sahaba.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPPGDk01ZIA

As far as praying behind Deobandis , watch this one and keep in mind that the dork appearing in the video is one of the most orthodox Raza khani http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjVo4...eature=related . Here is a "Soft" barelvi issuing Fatwa against praying behind Deobandis. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Dsk9mtGC8

[GenManagerS]

The rest of the barelvis are a mess when it comes to Islamic government and politics. The most venomous attacks on the first and most notable freedom fighter against the british was Shah Ismaail Shaheed ra. He was the first notable Muslim to have a plane to get rid of the british regime and establish Khilafat in the subcontinent.

This whole paragraph needs several typo corrections. But I like it as such also. A plan is a boring document while a plane is a joy ride!
As far as praying behind Deobandis , watch this one and keep in mind that the dork appearing in the video is one of the most orthodox Raza khani http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjVo4...eature=related . Can not listen to all of it but one point is a bit curious. He says the Salah does not stop from kufr. Beloved Rasoolallah (SAW) said that Salah stops you from Fawahish. Now kufr and Fawahish are not synonymous but Fawahish is indeed practical kufr. Inclination towards Hindus is quite apparent in the discussion.

[Anatolii]

This whole paragraph needs several typo corrections. But I like it as such also. A plan is a boring document while a plane is a joy ride!

Can not listen to all of it but one point is a bit curious. He says the Salah does not stop from kufr. Beloved Rasoolallah (SAW) said that Salah stops you from Fawahish. Now kufr and Fawahish are not synonymous but Fawahish is indeed practical kufr. Inclination towards Hindus is quite apparent in the discussion.

It works till it is understandable. Some grammatically correct sentences stay just heap of words for this sinner as they are much hard to be conceived. Sometimes the analogies are far fetched and the personal preferences codified in such a tone that that despite their eloquence they stay incomprehensible for this dumb sinner.

The question posed infront of him is if it is permissible to pray behind Deobandis and Wahabis. (the words have become synonymous) and his response is as following.

1. Why don't you ask me if it is permissible to pray behind Atal Bihari Vajpai?
2. Atal Bihari Vajpai is better than the Wahabis.
3. And he is better because he has never questioned/insulted the knowledge of the Prophet PBUH.

[lidersontop]

The question posed infront of him is if it is permissible to pray behind Deobandis and Wahabis. (the words have become synonymous) and his response is as following.

1. Why don't you ask me if it is permissible to pray behind Atal Bihari Vajpai?
2. Atal Bihari Vajpai is better than the Wahabis.
3. And he is better because he has never questioned/insulted the knowledge of the Prophet PBUH.

. Actually I had seen upto that.

I suppose when people behave obnoxiously our worries should be not to respond in kind.
The reason is that if we do otherwise, that is behave just like them, then they have brought us to there level.
And that is the bad news because next thing to follow is that they will beat us. Wallahualam.

[CevepBiageCefm]

They'll stoop you down to their level and then beat you by their experience

[Snweyuag]

They'll stoop you down to their level and then beat you by their experience

Exactly my dear.

[kilibry]

so no academic difference in govt, just some sectarian issues that keeps the barelvis from supporting deobandis ?

[theonsushv]

Wouldn't a Barelvi government round up and execute all Deobandis and Ahl-e-Hadith? Given that in the Barelvi religion, all of the aforementioned are apostates. Imagine Irfan Shah Mashadi in government.

[Pippoles]

what about deobandis praying behind barelvis?

[kabelshik]

Wouldn't a Barelvi government round up and execute all Deobandis and Ahl-e-Hadith? Given that in the Barelvi religion, all of the aforementioned are apostates. Imagine Irfan Shah Mashadi in government.

not likely
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y52Ck...eature=related

the people he says that one shouldnt pray behind wont be contested much by anyone in deoband circles. clear cut gustakh e rasool (SAW) is a kafir to both.

[Bbjhjxfy]

not likely
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y52Ck...eature=related

the people he says that one shouldnt pray behind wont be contested much by anyone in deoband circles. clear cut gustakh e rasool (SAW) is a kafir to both.

But he says Ashraf Ali Thanvi and Qasim Nanotvi and the rest of the Deobandi akabir are all apostates and anyone who contests that is an apostate. His pupil Asrar Rashid is very keen on exacerbating that.

[Krruqgwt]

But he says Ashraf Ali Thanvi and Qasim Nanotvi and the rest of the Deobandi akabir are all apostates and anyone who contests that is an apostate. His pupil Asrar Rashid is very keen on exacerbating that.

no. did you see the video i linked to?

[Serereids]

no. did you see the video i linked to?

So you are still trying to invent the myth of deobandi-Barelvi unity in your mind? Are you really taking this guy in the video serious? Enjoy this one from the same mouth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dn7s4M5nq4

You can also visit sunni forum . net for a unity call. I hope you will get a better reception than this sunni forum . net /showthread.php?t=14063 (remove the spaces)

[Peterli]

lol.i know the other forum.

[markoiutrfffdsa]

what about deobandis praying behind barelvis?

here you go http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/...=6949&act=view

[FsQGF1Mp]

You can also visit sunni forum . net for a unity call. I hope you will get a better reception than this sunni forum . net /showthread.php?t=14063 (remove the spaces)

bechara purana paapi...lol.atleast he tried.

[PVaQlNaP]

I think many of the issues between deobandies and brelwies are blown out of proportion by fanatics on both sides. I find it very boring because it never stops....the arguments go on forever. They really need a Sultan who will force them to unite. Their difference emerged after the Mogul rulers were destroyed by the British.

are the views compatible?
are they the same?
if not, how different?

plus, is it an accepted ruling from both sides that one cannot pray behind the other in jamaat? or are there any minor opinions that say otherwise?

why am i asking the second question:
from a secular's article:
"Pray tell: Photograph showing late Pir Pagara talking to the press at the Karachi Press Club in 1977. Pagara was heading a right-wing movement against the Z. A. Bhutto regime.
Here he is seen talking to the press (surrounded by some members of the Jamat-i-Islami, Jamat Ulema Islam and Jamiat Ulema Pakistan).
The men then got up to say their evening prayers.
However, a commotion broke out between the religious leaders of the movement when JI and JUI men refused to pray behind JUP leader, Shah Noorani.
JUI was inclined towards Sunni Deobandi school of thought whereas Noorani was from the pro-Barelvi JUP. Though united in their opposition to Bhutto’s ‘socialism’, both men thought the other was a ‘misguided Muslim.’

this isnt helpful. liberals, apologists, modernists always quote this.

important thing is: can they unite if there is an islamic shariah govt in pakistan even if they cant pray behind one another?

[Gilowero]

Their difference emerged after the Mogul rulers were destroyed by the British.

that would be incorrect. it was in 1867 that deoband university was started. so it was formed after the mughals were ousted. there were no barelvis and deobandis cracking their knuckles during mughal era unable to do anything about their differences. they didnt exist back then.