Deobandis and Naqshbandis - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**hotelhyatt** · 12-22-2010, 07:13 PM

What have the Deobandi scholars said, if anything, about the Naqshbandi in general and about Sayyid Ahmed Amiruddin in specific?

**kictainiSot** · 12-22-2010, 11:16 PM

What have the Deobandi scholars said, if anything, about the Naqshbandi in general and about Sayyid Ahmed Amiruddin in specific?

What have the deobandis said about naqshbandis? Well, many deobandis are infact associated with the naqshbandi tariqah: The silsilah of Haji Imdadullah muhajir al-makki consisted of 4 salasil i.e. chishtiyah, qadriyyah, naqshbandiyah and suharwardiyah.. It is this silsilah to which many deobandis have been associated (including likes of Mufti Rasheed Ahmad Gangohi, Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi, Maulana Khaleel Ahmad Saharanpuri, Maulana Husayn Ahmad Madani, Hazrat Abdur-Raheem Raepuri and Maulana Zakariyah Kandhalwi along with many contemporary ulama like Hazrat Maulana Hakeem Muhammad Akhtar and Mufti Tqai Usmani). However the abve mentioned silsilah has remained mainly chishti inclined.. However there have been other deobandi naqshbandiyah mashaikh as well like Hazrat Khawaja Khan Muhammad Sahib (who recently passed away) and Hazrat Zulfiqar Ahmad Naqshbandi d.b..

Hope this heps..

Wassalaam

**Rqvtwlfk** · 12-22-2010, 11:50 PM

http://tasawwuf.org/shaykh/silsilah.htm

**seervezex** · 12-23-2010, 04:37 AM

Akabireen deoband has very strong association with silsilsa naqshbandia.
Firstly as mentioned earlier on this thread,the grand shaikh of deoband Haji Imdad ullah ra was a khalifa of shah muhammad Afaq,who was a nashbandi shaikh.Secondly Hazrat Noor Muhammad ra,who was shaikh of Haji Imdad ullah ra was also a khalifa of Syed Ahmad Shaheed,who was a great shaikh of Naqshbandia .Thirdly Akabireen e deoband like rasheed ahmad gangoohi ra and molana qasim Nanotvi ra were students of Shah abdul ghani naqshbandi ra in hadeeth,fourthly akabirren deoband were followers of shah wali ullah in maslak,who was naqshbandi.

**gooseCile** · 12-23-2010, 05:51 AM

guys, the OP is asking about this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Ahmed_Amiruddin

he's some sorta deputy of Nazim Haqqani!!

They (haqqanis) are far from the Naqshbandi's whom the Deobandi's are connected to

others can explain better......

**Rqvtwlfk** · 12-23-2010, 05:57 AM

guys, the OP is asking about this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Ahmed_Amiruddin

he's some sorta deputy of Nazim Haqqani!!

They (haqqanis) are far from the Naqshbandi's whom the Deobandi's are connected to

others can explain better......

JazakAllah for the update, but to be honest, I couldn't control my laughter when I saw the photo and the description in the link. BTW, check http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...9822041901729#[/video] out yourself and decide if .... ROTFL

EPIC display of Islamic manners at 01:35

**gennickhif** · 12-23-2010, 05:59 AM

walaikum assalam

what does OP mean?

to be honest i knew that some of the leading scholars of the deoband had afiliation with tariqahs but i didnt think it was something that was encouraged!?!; although living amongst a deoband community there now seems to be a trend to exercise sprituality which of course is encouraged, alhamdulillah.

i would like to know a bit more about the approach of deoband to tariqah because i think the animosity that was once there is now reducing inshAllah

**reawnvam** · 12-23-2010, 06:49 AM

jazakallah for the update, but to be honest, i couldn't control my laughter when i saw the photo and the description in the link. Btw, check
epic display of islamic manners at 01:35

omg

**hotelhyatt** · 12-23-2010, 06:13 PM

...Hope this heps...

Yeah it did help

http://tasawwuf.org/shaykh/silsilah.htm

for the input

...Thirdly Akabireen e deoband like rasheed ahmad gangoohi ra and molana qasim Nanotvi ra were students of Shah abdul ghani naqshbandi ra in hadeeth,fourthly akabirren deoband were followers of shah wali ullah in maslak,who was naqshbandi.

for the input

...They (haqqanis) are far from the Naqshbandi's whom the Deobandi's are connected to...

I phoned an Alim today and asked him about the issue and that is essential what he said to me.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...9822041901729#[/video]

... erm ... ROFL

...what does OP mean?...

I was getting confused between what I saw about one group of Naqshbandis and what others people said about them. So I asked for clarification in the form of what Deobandi scholars have said on the issue. It turns out that there are different people with different interpretations who claim to be Naqshbandis. The Alim said that the people I saw as Naqshbandis (Sayyid Ahmed Amiruddin, et al.) are different from what Deobandis see as Naqshbandis. (I hope that made sense)

omg

LOL

**gooseCile** · 12-24-2010, 03:59 AM

walaikum assalam

what does OP mean?

to be honest i knew that some of the leading scholars of the deoband had afiliation with tariqahs but i didnt think it was something that was encouraged!?!; although living amongst a deoband community there now seems to be a trend to exercise sprituality which of course is encouraged, alhamdulillah.

i would like to know a bit more about the approach of deoband to tariqah because i think the animosity that was once there is now reducing inshAllah

OP = Original Poster (i.e. abz in this case)

Seems youre frm a barelwi background. Barelwis do like to spread myths about Deoband and this is one of them. Tasawwuf and spirituality is extremely encouraged. Mawlana Ashraf Ali Tahanwi

is considered a Mujaddid in this field in the Indo/Pak subcontinent (well, among non-Barelwis that is).

to be honest i knew that some of the leading scholars of the deoband had afiliation with tariqahs but i didnt think it was something that was encouraged!

How on earth would that work then?!?!?!? Leading scholars affiliated to tariqahs but then they dont encourage it....???....weird

...there now seems to be a trend to exercise sprituality "trend"... astaghfiruLlah. What do you mean by that?

Every single one of the Deobandi elders were affiliated to and greatly encouraged tasawwuf and spirituality...though not the type of "spirituality" which is restricted by some to mazars and dances.

......animosity that was once there is now reducing.... animosity...what nonsense!!! Animosity was to Shirk and Bid'ah, not tasawwuf!

Your notion that the Ulama of Deoband where against tasawwuf is just on of many myths created by some barelwis, which theyll have to answer for inshaAllah.

A good place to start would have been www.deoband.org but theyve got some technical problems at present.

But since it seems you dnt really have a clue about the maslak of Deoband, you may want to read this: http://www.darululoom-deoband.com/english/index.htm

Here's a great snippet from it:

If this track which has been obtained through the spiritual connections (Nisbats) of the predecessors and the successors is reduced to technical language, then in sum it is this that religiously Darul Uloom is Muslim; as a sect, Ahl-e-Sunnat wal-Jama'at; in practical method, (Mazhab), Hanafi'yat; in conduct, Sufi; dialectically, Maturidi Ash'ari; in respect of the mystic path, Chishtiyyah, rather comprising all the Sufi orders; in thought, Waliyullhian; in principle, Qasimiyah; sectionally, Rasheedian; and as regards connection, Deobandi".

**eladiopsislab** · 12-24-2010, 06:56 AM

Assalamu alaikum,

I think perhaps some sub continent folks forget that there are other hanafis in the world aside from deobandis and barvelis. The remnants of the ottoman empire are at least nominally hanafi, and along with it, there are branches of the naqshbandi tariqa. Of course, not all ottoman naqshbandi tariqas are like the haqqanis. There are probably plenty who are more traditional in their view.

I conversed with a secular/liberal bosnian hanafi online a few years back, and was quite surprised at the lax view she portrayed of what hanafis are in eastern europe. I was surprised at how she identified herself as a hanafi muslim, and went on and on about how liberal hanafis were. I was like umm, let me tell you about deobandis then...

One thing I would like to know more about, if I ever can find english language resources on the subject, is the development of the hanafi madhab in the ottoman empire, and how it differs from the hanafi madhab in the subcontinent.

**Rqvtwlfk** · 12-24-2010, 07:09 AM

Assalamu alaikum,

I think perhaps some sub continent folks forget that there are other hanafis in the world aside from deobandis and barvelis. The remnants of the ottoman empire are at least nominally hanafi, and along with it, there are branches of the naqshbandi tariqa. Of course, not all ottoman naqshbandi tariqas are like the haqqanis. There are probably plenty who are more traditional in their view.

I conversed with a secular/liberal bosnian hanafi online a few years back, and was quite surprised at the lax view she portrayed of what hanafis are in eastern europe. I was surprised at how she identified herself as a hanafi muslim, and went on and on about how liberal hanafis were. I was like umm, let me tell you about deobandis then...

One thing I would like to know more about, if I ever can find english language resources on the subject, is the development of the hanafi madhab in the ottoman empire, and how it differs from the hanafi madhab in the subcontinent.

Sorry sister, but this "oh you forget there are other hanafis too" card or the excuse that sub-continental hanafis don't know much about the rest of the world, is no longer usable here. What are you trying to say? Deobandis are alHamdulillah knowledgeable about almost every field of Islamic Jurisprudence, their only down-side is that they do not bend/twist/change Islam based on public demand. If a brother wants to know what is the relationship between the said person and the Deobandi Naqshbandis, there's nothing wrong with it.

**U2DnBGFE** · 12-24-2010, 07:35 AM

Assalamu alaikum,

I think perhaps some sub continent folks forget that there are other hanafis in the world aside from deobandis and barvelis. The remnants of the ottoman empire are at least nominally hanafi, and along with it, there are branches of the naqshbandi tariqa. Of course, not all ottoman naqshbandi tariqas are like the haqqanis. There are probably plenty who are more traditional in their view.

I conversed with a secular/liberal bosnian hanafi online a few years back, and was quite surprised at the lax view she portrayed of what hanafis are in eastern europe. I was surprised at how she identified herself as a hanafi muslim, and went on and on about how liberal hanafis were. I was like umm, let me tell you about deobandis then...

One thing I would like to know more about, if I ever can find english language resources on the subject, is the development of the hanafi madhab in the ottoman empire, and how it differs from the hanafi madhab in the subcontinent.

1. While sometimes the people on this forum criticise others for something which is a legitimate difference of opinion, this is very rare
2. They are very strict on areas where no such legitimate difference exists, such as regards to the permissibility (or rather impermissibility) of music, not touching a non mahram, etc hence, the Haqqani's are failures
3. The problem with the secular/liberal Bosnian was that she was a secular/liberal Bosnian. While the Deobandies (and I am not one myself) have solid evidence for what they say, I doubt she does
4. There were many weird opinions coming out of the Ottoman Empire, probably due to politicial reasons.

In short, I don't understand what your saying

**Usesdiums** · 12-24-2010, 06:05 PM

Akabireen deoband has very strong association with silsilsa naqshbandia.
Firstly as mentioned earlier on this thread,the grand shaikh of deoband Haji Imdad ullah ra was a khalifa of shah muhammad Afaq,who was a nashbandi shaikh.Secondly Hazrat Noor Muhammad ra,who was shaikh of Haji Imdad ullah ra was also a khalifa of Syed Ahmad Shaheed,who was a great shaikh of Naqshbandia .Thirdly Akabireen e deoband like rasheed ahmad gangoohi ra and molana qasim Nanotvi ra were students of Shah abdul ghani naqshbandi ra in hadeeth,fourthly akabirren deoband were followers of shah wali ullah in maslak,who was naqshbandi.

Couldn't agree with you more. The teachings of the Naqshbandi silsila - especially those of Imam Rabbani Mujaddid Alf Thani (ra) - have had a profound impact on the Deobandi maslak. I think the connection is very strong but many people don't know. Like you've mentioned that the founders of Dar al-Ulum Deoband were students of the Nashbandi sufi master and muhaddith, Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani al-Dahlawi al-Mujadiddi al-Madani. And they weren't "just students" rather both Hujjat al-Islam Mawlana Qasim al-Nanotwi and Imam Rabbani Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi were the closest students of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani. In fact, Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi lived and studied at the Khanqah (yes the Naqshbandi khanqah) of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani in Dehli.

Aside from Mawlana Nanotwi and Gangohi, another founder of Dar al-Ulum Deoband, the Naqshbandi sufi master Shah Rafi al-Din al-Deobandi (ra) was a prominent khalifah of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani (ra). And the first Mufti of Dar al-Ulum Deoband and the teacher of the likes of Mufti Muhammad Shafi' (the father of Mufti Rafi Usmani and Mufti Taqi Usmani), Mufti Aziz al-Rahman (ra), was a khalifah of Shah Rafi al-Din hence a Naqshbandi shaykh in his own right.

**gooseCile** · 12-25-2010, 12:12 AM

Couldn't agree with you more. The teachings of the Naqshbandi silsila - especially those of Imam Rabbani Mujaddid Alf Thani (ra) - have had a profound impact on the Deobandi maslak. I think the connection is very strong but many people don't know. Like you've mentioned that the founders of Dar al-Ulum Deoband were students of the Nashbandi sufi master and muhaddith, Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani al-Dahlawi al-Mujadiddi al-Madani. And they weren't "just students" rather both Hujjat al-Islam Mawlana Qasim al-Nanotwi and Imam Rabbani Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi were the closest students of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani. In fact, Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi lived and studied at the Khanqah (yes the Naqshbandi khanqah) of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani in Dehli.

Aside from Mawlana Nanotwi and Gangohi, another founder of Dar al-Ulum Deoband, the Naqshbandi sufi master Shah Rafi al-Din al-Deobandi (ra) was a prominent khalifah of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani (ra). And the first Mufti of Dar al-Ulum Deoband and the teacher of the likes of Mufti Muhammad Shafi' (the father of Mufti Rafi Usmani and Mufti Taqi Usmani), Mufti Aziz al-Rahman (ra), was a khalifah of Shah Rafi al-Din hence a Naqshbandi shaykh in his own right.

interessting. Is there any biograohy on Shah Rafi al-Deen al-Deobandi Mujaddidi Naqshbandi

?
Ive only ever heard very few stories about him. Imam Nanotwi once said about him that he was no difference in Mawlana Gangohi and Shah Rafi al-Deen except that the former was an Alim. (rahimahumuLlah)

@sister reeha: I think maybe you havent understood the purpose of this thread. No one had even mentioned anything to do with non-Indian Hanafis or anything connected to that before your post, i honestly dont understand whey you brouht that up here. Maybe you should start your own thread for that discussion because (imo) what you say about some Indian/Pak/Bengali Hanafis thinking there are no other Hanafis in the world is quite true with some people; especially among those who actually live in the Ind subcontinent (as opposed to migrants to other countries). I think the reason is that the time when they (or anyone 4 that matter) gets exposed to the rest of the ummah the most is at the time of Hajj/Umrah where, inevitably, most of the ppl they meet/see are Arabs; and Arabs are mostly non-Hanafi.
Mufti al-Kawthari also mentions something lyk this in a speech which is on youtube.

**rolex-buy** · 12-25-2010, 12:19 AM

Arent barelwis and deoband both of the Naqshbandi silsilah? Or have I flipped the lid somewhwat...

**seervezex** · 12-25-2010, 03:00 AM

Couldn't agree with you more. The teachings of the Naqshbandi silsila - especially those of Imam Rabbani Mujaddid Alf Thani (ra) - have had a profound impact on the Deobandi maslak. I think the connection is very strong but many people don't know. Like you've mentioned that the founders of Dar al-Ulum Deoband were students of the Nashbandi sufi master and muhaddith, Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani al-Dahlawi al-Mujadiddi al-Madani. And they weren't "just students" rather both Hujjat al-Islam Mawlana Qasim al-Nanotwi and Imam Rabbani Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi were the closest students of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani. In fact, Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi lived and studied at the Khanqah (yes the Naqshbandi khanqah) of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani in Dehli.

Aside from Mawlana Nanotwi and Gangohi, another founder of Dar al-Ulum Deoband, the Naqshbandi sufi master Shah Rafi al-Din al-Deobandi (ra) was a prominent khalifah of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani (ra). And the first Mufti of Dar al-Ulum Deoband and the teacher of the likes of Mufti Muhammad Shafi' (the father of Mufti Rafi Usmani and Mufti Taqi Usmani), Mufti Aziz al-Rahman (ra), was a khalifah of Shah Rafi al-Din hence a Naqshbandi shaykh in his own right.

Even moulana badre alam sahab Meerathi,Muhajer madani, a well known deobandi scholar,who wrote famous collection of Hadeeth,TARJUMANUS SUNNA, was mureed of moulana Aziz ul Rahman ra,and after his wafat got khilafat from another naqshbandi shaikh.

**seervezex** · 12-25-2010, 03:17 AM

Arent barelwis and deoband both of the Naqshbandi silsilah? Or have I flipped the lid somewhwat...

Brother,you are right.Deobandis and barelwi,s both strongly believe in tassawuf and therefore one can find mashaikh of naqshbandia silsila in both.the difference is not weather they believe in tassawuf or not,The difference is what do they mean by tassawuf.As it goes, for Deobandi,s tassawuf means strict ittiba e sunna,toheed,Islahe nafs etc.For most of the Barelwi,s it means Urs,Mazarat,qawali and things similar to it.Naqshbandia silsila is known for its strictness with ittibae sunna,so it is usually not very appealing for barelwi.s but yes,some naqshbandi mashaikh can be found even in barelwi,s.

**MidwestMadman** · 07-04-2012, 02:13 AM

Deobandis ulema are associated with Naqshahbandi, Qadri, Chishti, and the Suhrawardiyyah silsilah

**20170425yuanyuan** · 04-25-2018, 05:07 AM

12-22-2010, 07:13 PM	#1
hotelhyatt Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 484 Senior Member	Deobandis and Naqshbandis What have the Deobandi scholars said, if anything, about the Naqshbandi in general and about Sayyid Ahmed Amiruddin in specific? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-22-2010, 11:16 PM	#2
kictainiSot Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 536 Senior Member	What have the Deobandi scholars said, if anything, about the Naqshbandi in general and about Sayyid Ahmed Amiruddin in specific? What have the deobandis said about naqshbandis? Well, many deobandis are infact associated with the naqshbandi tariqah: The silsilah of Haji Imdadullah muhajir al-makki consisted of 4 salasil i.e. chishtiyah, qadriyyah, naqshbandiyah and suharwardiyah.. It is this silsilah to which many deobandis have been associated (including likes of Mufti Rasheed Ahmad Gangohi, Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi, Maulana Khaleel Ahmad Saharanpuri, Maulana Husayn Ahmad Madani, Hazrat Abdur-Raheem Raepuri and Maulana Zakariyah Kandhalwi along with many contemporary ulama like Hazrat Maulana Hakeem Muhammad Akhtar and Mufti Tqai Usmani). However the abve mentioned silsilah has remained mainly chishti inclined.. However there have been other deobandi naqshbandiyah mashaikh as well like Hazrat Khawaja Khan Muhammad Sahib (who recently passed away) and Hazrat Zulfiqar Ahmad Naqshbandi d.b.. Hope this heps.. Wassalaam Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-22-2010, 11:50 PM	#3
Rqvtwlfk Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 453 Senior Member	http://tasawwuf.org/shaykh/silsilah.htm Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-23-2010, 04:37 AM	#4
seervezex Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 400 Senior Member	Akabireen deoband has very strong association with silsilsa naqshbandia. Firstly as mentioned earlier on this thread,the grand shaikh of deoband Haji Imdad ullah ra was a khalifa of shah muhammad Afaq,who was a nashbandi shaikh.Secondly Hazrat Noor Muhammad ra,who was shaikh of Haji Imdad ullah ra was also a khalifa of Syed Ahmad Shaheed,who was a great shaikh of Naqshbandia .Thirdly Akabireen e deoband like rasheed ahmad gangoohi ra and molana qasim Nanotvi ra were students of Shah abdul ghani naqshbandi ra in hadeeth,fourthly akabirren deoband were followers of shah wali ullah in maslak,who was naqshbandi. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-23-2010, 05:51 AM	#5
gooseCile Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 563 Senior Member	guys, the OP is asking about this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Ahmed_Amiruddin he's some sorta deputy of Nazim Haqqani!! They (haqqanis) are far from the Naqshbandi's whom the Deobandi's are connected to others can explain better...... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-23-2010, 05:57 AM	#6
Rqvtwlfk Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 453 Senior Member	guys, the OP is asking about this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Ahmed_Amiruddin he's some sorta deputy of Nazim Haqqani!! They (haqqanis) are far from the Naqshbandi's whom the Deobandi's are connected to others can explain better...... JazakAllah for the update, but to be honest, I couldn't control my laughter when I saw the photo and the description in the link. BTW, check http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...9822041901729#[/video] out yourself and decide if .... ROTFL EPIC display of Islamic manners at 01:35 Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-23-2010, 05:59 AM	#7
gennickhif Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 729 Senior Member	walaikum assalam what does OP mean? to be honest i knew that some of the leading scholars of the deoband had afiliation with tariqahs but i didnt think it was something that was encouraged!?!; although living amongst a deoband community there now seems to be a trend to exercise sprituality which of course is encouraged, alhamdulillah. i would like to know a bit more about the approach of deoband to tariqah because i think the animosity that was once there is now reducing inshAllah Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-23-2010, 06:49 AM	#8
reawnvam Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 311 Senior Member	jazakallah for the update, but to be honest, i couldn't control my laughter when i saw the photo and the description in the link. Btw, check epic display of islamic manners at 01:35 omg Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-23-2010, 06:13 PM	#9
hotelhyatt Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 484 Senior Member	...Hope this heps... Yeah it did help http://tasawwuf.org/shaykh/silsilah.htm for the input ...Thirdly Akabireen e deoband like rasheed ahmad gangoohi ra and molana qasim Nanotvi ra were students of Shah abdul ghani naqshbandi ra in hadeeth,fourthly akabirren deoband were followers of shah wali ullah in maslak,who was naqshbandi. for the input ...They (haqqanis) are far from the Naqshbandi's whom the Deobandi's are connected to... I phoned an Alim today and asked him about the issue and that is essential what he said to me. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...9822041901729#[/video] ... erm ... ROFL ...what does OP mean?... I was getting confused between what I saw about one group of Naqshbandis and what others people said about them. So I asked for clarification in the form of what Deobandi scholars have said on the issue. It turns out that there are different people with different interpretations who claim to be Naqshbandis. The Alim said that the people I saw as Naqshbandis (Sayyid Ahmed Amiruddin, et al.) are different from what Deobandis see as Naqshbandis. (I hope that made sense) omg LOL Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-24-2010, 03:59 AM	#10
gooseCile Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 563 Senior Member	walaikum assalam what does OP mean? to be honest i knew that some of the leading scholars of the deoband had afiliation with tariqahs but i didnt think it was something that was encouraged!?!; although living amongst a deoband community there now seems to be a trend to exercise sprituality which of course is encouraged, alhamdulillah. i would like to know a bit more about the approach of deoband to tariqah because i think the animosity that was once there is now reducing inshAllah OP = Original Poster (i.e. abz in this case) Seems youre frm a barelwi background. Barelwis do like to spread myths about Deoband and this is one of them. Tasawwuf and spirituality is extremely encouraged. Mawlana Ashraf Ali Tahanwi is considered a Mujaddid in this field in the Indo/Pak subcontinent (well, among non-Barelwis that is). to be honest i knew that some of the leading scholars of the deoband had afiliation with tariqahs but i didnt think it was something that was encouraged! How on earth would that work then?!?!?!? Leading scholars affiliated to tariqahs but then they dont encourage it....???....weird ...there now seems to be a trend to exercise sprituality "trend"... astaghfiruLlah. What do you mean by that? Every single one of the Deobandi elders were affiliated to and greatly encouraged tasawwuf and spirituality...though not the type of "spirituality" which is restricted by some to mazars and dances. ......animosity that was once there is now reducing.... animosity...what nonsense!!! Animosity was to Shirk and Bid'ah, not tasawwuf! Your notion that the Ulama of Deoband where against tasawwuf is just on of many myths created by some barelwis, which theyll have to answer for inshaAllah. A good place to start would have been www.deoband.org but theyve got some technical problems at present. But since it seems you dnt really have a clue about the maslak of Deoband, you may want to read this: http://www.darululoom-deoband.com/english/index.htm Here's a great snippet from it: If this track which has been obtained through the spiritual connections (Nisbats) of the predecessors and the successors is reduced to technical language, then in sum it is this that religiously Darul Uloom is Muslim; as a sect, Ahl-e-Sunnat wal-Jama'at; in practical method, (Mazhab), Hanafi'yat; in conduct, Sufi; dialectically, Maturidi Ash'ari; in respect of the mystic path, Chishtiyyah, rather comprising all the Sufi orders; in thought, Waliyullhian; in principle, Qasimiyah; sectionally, Rasheedian; and as regards connection, Deobandi". Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-24-2010, 06:56 AM	#11
eladiopsislab Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 611 Senior Member	Assalamu alaikum, I think perhaps some sub continent folks forget that there are other hanafis in the world aside from deobandis and barvelis. The remnants of the ottoman empire are at least nominally hanafi, and along with it, there are branches of the naqshbandi tariqa. Of course, not all ottoman naqshbandi tariqas are like the haqqanis. There are probably plenty who are more traditional in their view. I conversed with a secular/liberal bosnian hanafi online a few years back, and was quite surprised at the lax view she portrayed of what hanafis are in eastern europe. I was surprised at how she identified herself as a hanafi muslim, and went on and on about how liberal hanafis were. I was like umm, let me tell you about deobandis then... One thing I would like to know more about, if I ever can find english language resources on the subject, is the development of the hanafi madhab in the ottoman empire, and how it differs from the hanafi madhab in the subcontinent. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-24-2010, 07:09 AM	#12
Rqvtwlfk Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 453 Senior Member	Assalamu alaikum, I think perhaps some sub continent folks forget that there are other hanafis in the world aside from deobandis and barvelis. The remnants of the ottoman empire are at least nominally hanafi, and along with it, there are branches of the naqshbandi tariqa. Of course, not all ottoman naqshbandi tariqas are like the haqqanis. There are probably plenty who are more traditional in their view. I conversed with a secular/liberal bosnian hanafi online a few years back, and was quite surprised at the lax view she portrayed of what hanafis are in eastern europe. I was surprised at how she identified herself as a hanafi muslim, and went on and on about how liberal hanafis were. I was like umm, let me tell you about deobandis then... One thing I would like to know more about, if I ever can find english language resources on the subject, is the development of the hanafi madhab in the ottoman empire, and how it differs from the hanafi madhab in the subcontinent. Sorry sister, but this "oh you forget there are other hanafis too" card or the excuse that sub-continental hanafis don't know much about the rest of the world, is no longer usable here. What are you trying to say? Deobandis are alHamdulillah knowledgeable about almost every field of Islamic Jurisprudence, their only down-side is that they do not bend/twist/change Islam based on public demand. If a brother wants to know what is the relationship between the said person and the Deobandi Naqshbandis, there's nothing wrong with it. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-24-2010, 07:35 AM	#13
U2DnBGFE Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 901 Senior Member	Assalamu alaikum, I think perhaps some sub continent folks forget that there are other hanafis in the world aside from deobandis and barvelis. The remnants of the ottoman empire are at least nominally hanafi, and along with it, there are branches of the naqshbandi tariqa. Of course, not all ottoman naqshbandi tariqas are like the haqqanis. There are probably plenty who are more traditional in their view. I conversed with a secular/liberal bosnian hanafi online a few years back, and was quite surprised at the lax view she portrayed of what hanafis are in eastern europe. I was surprised at how she identified herself as a hanafi muslim, and went on and on about how liberal hanafis were. I was like umm, let me tell you about deobandis then... One thing I would like to know more about, if I ever can find english language resources on the subject, is the development of the hanafi madhab in the ottoman empire, and how it differs from the hanafi madhab in the subcontinent. 1. While sometimes the people on this forum criticise others for something which is a legitimate difference of opinion, this is very rare 2. They are very strict on areas where no such legitimate difference exists, such as regards to the permissibility (or rather impermissibility) of music, not touching a non mahram, etc hence, the Haqqani's are failures 3. The problem with the secular/liberal Bosnian was that she was a secular/liberal Bosnian. While the Deobandies (and I am not one myself) have solid evidence for what they say, I doubt she does 4. There were many weird opinions coming out of the Ottoman Empire, probably due to politicial reasons. In short, I don't understand what your saying Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-24-2010, 06:05 PM	#14
Usesdiums Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 471 Senior Member	Akabireen deoband has very strong association with silsilsa naqshbandia. Firstly as mentioned earlier on this thread,the grand shaikh of deoband Haji Imdad ullah ra was a khalifa of shah muhammad Afaq,who was a nashbandi shaikh.Secondly Hazrat Noor Muhammad ra,who was shaikh of Haji Imdad ullah ra was also a khalifa of Syed Ahmad Shaheed,who was a great shaikh of Naqshbandia .Thirdly Akabireen e deoband like rasheed ahmad gangoohi ra and molana qasim Nanotvi ra were students of Shah abdul ghani naqshbandi ra in hadeeth,fourthly akabirren deoband were followers of shah wali ullah in maslak,who was naqshbandi. Couldn't agree with you more. The teachings of the Naqshbandi silsila - especially those of Imam Rabbani Mujaddid Alf Thani (ra) - have had a profound impact on the Deobandi maslak. I think the connection is very strong but many people don't know. Like you've mentioned that the founders of Dar al-Ulum Deoband were students of the Nashbandi sufi master and muhaddith, Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani al-Dahlawi al-Mujadiddi al-Madani. And they weren't "just students" rather both Hujjat al-Islam Mawlana Qasim al-Nanotwi and Imam Rabbani Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi were the closest students of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani. In fact, Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi lived and studied at the Khanqah (yes the Naqshbandi khanqah) of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani in Dehli. Aside from Mawlana Nanotwi and Gangohi, another founder of Dar al-Ulum Deoband, the Naqshbandi sufi master Shah Rafi al-Din al-Deobandi (ra) was a prominent khalifah of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani (ra). And the first Mufti of Dar al-Ulum Deoband and the teacher of the likes of Mufti Muhammad Shafi' (the father of Mufti Rafi Usmani and Mufti Taqi Usmani), Mufti Aziz al-Rahman (ra), was a khalifah of Shah Rafi al-Din hence a Naqshbandi shaykh in his own right. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-25-2010, 12:12 AM	#15
gooseCile Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 563 Senior Member	Couldn't agree with you more. The teachings of the Naqshbandi silsila - especially those of Imam Rabbani Mujaddid Alf Thani (ra) - have had a profound impact on the Deobandi maslak. I think the connection is very strong but many people don't know. Like you've mentioned that the founders of Dar al-Ulum Deoband were students of the Nashbandi sufi master and muhaddith, Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani al-Dahlawi al-Mujadiddi al-Madani. And they weren't "just students" rather both Hujjat al-Islam Mawlana Qasim al-Nanotwi and Imam Rabbani Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi were the closest students of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani. In fact, Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi lived and studied at the Khanqah (yes the Naqshbandi khanqah) of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani in Dehli. Aside from Mawlana Nanotwi and Gangohi, another founder of Dar al-Ulum Deoband, the Naqshbandi sufi master Shah Rafi al-Din al-Deobandi (ra) was a prominent khalifah of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani (ra). And the first Mufti of Dar al-Ulum Deoband and the teacher of the likes of Mufti Muhammad Shafi' (the father of Mufti Rafi Usmani and Mufti Taqi Usmani), Mufti Aziz al-Rahman (ra), was a khalifah of Shah Rafi al-Din hence a Naqshbandi shaykh in his own right. interessting. Is there any biograohy on Shah Rafi al-Deen al-Deobandi Mujaddidi Naqshbandi ? Ive only ever heard very few stories about him. Imam Nanotwi once said about him that he was no difference in Mawlana Gangohi and Shah Rafi al-Deen except that the former was an Alim. (rahimahumuLlah) @sister reeha: I think maybe you havent understood the purpose of this thread. No one had even mentioned anything to do with non-Indian Hanafis or anything connected to that before your post, i honestly dont understand whey you brouht that up here. Maybe you should start your own thread for that discussion because (imo) what you say about some Indian/Pak/Bengali Hanafis thinking there are no other Hanafis in the world is quite true with some people; especially among those who actually live in the Ind subcontinent (as opposed to migrants to other countries). I think the reason is that the time when they (or anyone 4 that matter) gets exposed to the rest of the ummah the most is at the time of Hajj/Umrah where, inevitably, most of the ppl they meet/see are Arabs; and Arabs are mostly non-Hanafi. Mufti al-Kawthari also mentions something lyk this in a speech which is on youtube. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

12-25-2010, 12:19 AM	#16
rolex-buy Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 505 Senior Member	Arent barelwis and deoband both of the Naqshbandi silsilah? Or have I flipped the lid somewhwat... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-25-2010, 03:00 AM	#17
seervezex Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 400 Senior Member	Couldn't agree with you more. The teachings of the Naqshbandi silsila - especially those of Imam Rabbani Mujaddid Alf Thani (ra) - have had a profound impact on the Deobandi maslak. I think the connection is very strong but many people don't know. Like you've mentioned that the founders of Dar al-Ulum Deoband were students of the Nashbandi sufi master and muhaddith, Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani al-Dahlawi al-Mujadiddi al-Madani. And they weren't "just students" rather both Hujjat al-Islam Mawlana Qasim al-Nanotwi and Imam Rabbani Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi were the closest students of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani. In fact, Mawlana Rashid Ahmad Gangohi lived and studied at the Khanqah (yes the Naqshbandi khanqah) of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani in Dehli. Aside from Mawlana Nanotwi and Gangohi, another founder of Dar al-Ulum Deoband, the Naqshbandi sufi master Shah Rafi al-Din al-Deobandi (ra) was a prominent khalifah of Shaykh 'Abd al-Ghani (ra). And the first Mufti of Dar al-Ulum Deoband and the teacher of the likes of Mufti Muhammad Shafi' (the father of Mufti Rafi Usmani and Mufti Taqi Usmani), Mufti Aziz al-Rahman (ra), was a khalifah of Shah Rafi al-Din hence a Naqshbandi shaykh in his own right. Even moulana badre alam sahab Meerathi,Muhajer madani, a well known deobandi scholar,who wrote famous collection of Hadeeth,TARJUMANUS SUNNA, was mureed of moulana Aziz ul Rahman ra,and after his wafat got khilafat from another naqshbandi shaikh. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-25-2010, 03:17 AM	#18
seervezex Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 400 Senior Member	Arent barelwis and deoband both of the Naqshbandi silsilah? Or have I flipped the lid somewhwat... Brother,you are right.Deobandis and barelwi,s both strongly believe in tassawuf and therefore one can find mashaikh of naqshbandia silsila in both.the difference is not weather they believe in tassawuf or not,The difference is what do they mean by tassawuf.As it goes, for Deobandi,s tassawuf means strict ittiba e sunna,toheed,Islahe nafs etc.For most of the Barelwi,s it means Urs,Mazarat,qawali and things similar to it.Naqshbandia silsila is known for its strictness with ittibae sunna,so it is usually not very appealing for barelwi.s but yes,some naqshbandi mashaikh can be found even in barelwi,s. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-04-2012, 02:13 AM	#19
MidwestMadman Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 493 Senior Member	Deobandis ulema are associated with Naqshahbandi, Qadri, Chishti, and the Suhrawardiyyah silsilah Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

04-25-2018, 05:07 AM	#20
20170425yuanyuan Join Date Apr 2017 Posts 6,459 Senior Member	clb20180425 louis vuitton outlet online ralph lauren outlet birkenstocks pandora jewelry coach factory outlet canada goose jackets pandora charms kate spade christian louboutin longchamp outlet puma shoes nike outlet store michael kors outlet air jordans ray ban sunglasses discount yeezy boost reebok shoes birkenstock tiffany outlet louis vuitton outlet online coach factory outlet coach factory outlet michael kors outlet canada birkenstock outlet polo outlet uggs louis vuitton outlet michael kors outlet clearance cheap oakley sunglasses michael kors outlet adidas shoes kate spade outlet coach outlet cheap jordans air max 2017 nike air max ugg boots on sale polo ralph lauren outlet ferragamo shoes nike outlet coach outlet store vans store skechers shoes coach factorty outlet christian louboutin coach outlet store online hermes birkin air max 2019 oakley sunglasses oakley sunglasses polo ralph lauren outlet online moncler jackets outlet abercrombie fitflops coach factory outlet nike air max jordan shoes adidas outlet coach outlet online prada outlet ralph lauren sale clearance pandora charms adidas nmd timberland outlet coach outlet hermes handbags coach outlet pandora charms ralph lauren outlet mulberry outlet coach factory outlet adidas yeezy boost nfl jerseys wholesale doudoune moncler toms shoes adidas superstar adidas yeezy coach canada adidas superstar michael kors outlet adidas campus oakley sunglasses outlet hollister clothing north face outlet adidas yeezy tiffany and co ugg outlet canada goose fitflops sale clearance mulberry uk canada goose outlet mlb jerseys coach outlet tods outlet red bottoms mcm outlet tory burch outlet store coach outlet moncler jackets adidas nmd shoes adidas nmd ralph lauren outlet louis vuitton outlet coach outlet cheap ray ban sunglasses ugg boots ralph lauren tory burch outlet coach outlet cheap nba jerseys air max 2018 oakley sunglasses new balance outlet michael kors outlet clearance coach outlet coach factory outlet converse outlet store hermes outlet canada goose outlet coach outlet store valentino shoes outlet mulberry handbags michael kors outlet clearance coach outlet store ralph lauren outlet canada goose outlet cheap jordans michael kors canada goose jackets louis vuitton handbags ralph lauren uggs outlet michael kors outlet ralph lauren nike store oakley sunglasses ugg australia cheap ray ban sunglasses harden vol 1 adidas shoes michael kors outlet clearance moncler jackets replica watches oakley sunglasses north face jackets ray ban sunglasses ray ban sunglasses louis vuitton outlet store birkenstock sandals canada goose jackets louboutin shoes michael kors outlet michael kors outlet coach outlet coach outlet online pandora jewelry rolex watches prada handbags cheap mlb jerseys china supra shoes uggs outlet coach outlet birkenstock sandals pandora charms uk fitflops sale clearance ugg boots adidas shoes discount oakley sunglasses timberland boots kate spade handbag kate spade handbags cheap jordans for sale adidas supreme clothing michael kors handbags ugg outlet air jordan shoes coach factory outlet coach outlet air jordan shoes moncler outlet jordan shoes tory burch outlet online kate spade outlet supra shoes pandora ferragamo outlet valentino shoes adidas outlet converse shoes coach factory outlet polo ralph lauren canada goose mbt shoes jordans michael kors kate spade outlet birkenstock outlet cheap mlb jerseys adidas yeezy boost ray ban sunglasses louboutin shoes ugg outlet ralph lauren sale coach outlet store yeezy boost nike outlet tiffany and co toms outlet coach factory outlet jordan retro gucci outlet polo ralph lauren outlet salvatore ferragamo oakley sunglasses north face jackets birkenstock shoes fitflops sale jordans canada goose uk pandora charms sale louis vuitton kate spade oakley sunglasses adidas shoes nike outlet online canada goose jackets uk uggs canada pandora charms air jordans nike air max cheap jordans oakley sunglasses sale canada goose outlet ugg boots cheap oakley sunglasses michael kors outlet nike shoes for men mont blanc kevin durant shoes pandora jewelry official site kate spade bags pandora charms timberland boots canada goose jackets cheap jordan shoes moncler outlet polo ralph lauren outlet online yeezy boost gucci handbags outlet ecco shoes fitflops moncler outlet cheap jordans moncler outlet cheap mlb jerseys michael kors outlet clearance cheap oakley sunglasses coach factory outlet online canada goose sale michael kors handbags adidas nmd philipp plein outlet fitflops sale moncler pandora jewelry pandora charms birkenstock sandals canada goose uk pandora store canada goose sale cheap uggs mcm handbags ugg boots on sale air max 97 canada goose outlet supreme clothing coach outlet coach factory outlet tory burch outlet cheap oakley sunglasses ralph lauren outlet christian louboutin outlet canada goose nike air max outlet yeezy 350 boost polo ralph lauren outlet online michael kors outlet nike outlet cheap jordans free shipping pandora jewelry outlet hermes handbags red bottom shoes polo outlet asics shoes nba jerseys nike shoes mulberry bags coach outlet uggs burberry outlet air max 2018 nike shoes fred perry nike outlet online hermens bags ralph lauren sale clearance air max 97 moncler outlet birkenstock shoes coach outlet online canada goose outlet cheap nfl jerseys new balance shoes ecco shoes for men coach outlet jordan retro 11 jordan shoes oakey sunglasses air max 90 mbt shoes fitflops pandora charms sale clearance polo outlet store toms outlet cheap nfl jerseys canada goose sale gucci handbags canada goose jackets pandora charms sale clearance yeezy boost fitflops sale clearance pandora jewelry nike outlet canada goose vans shoes coach outlet pandora jewelry ralph lauren uk ray ban sunglasses adidas yeezy boost canada goose outlet coach outlet michael kors outlet online polo ralph lauren outlet online longchamp outlet hermes bags pandora jewelry burberry outlet store valentino shoes moncler outlet ultra boost oakley sunglasses ugg outlet pandora outlet coach outlet store ugg outlet nike shoes coach outlet store online clearances mont blanc pens birkenstock sandals jordan shoes michael kors outlet online fitflops coach factorty outlet abercrombie and fitch red bottoms shoes timberland boots outlet louboutin shoes michael kors outlet nike shoes adidas shoes pandora outlet philipp plein shirt supreme clothing michael kors factory outlet jordan shoes kate spade pandora charms adidas yeezy ray ban sunglasses discount kate spade outlet store adidas yeezy canada goose outlet kate spade outlet longchamp outlet online ralph lauren outlet online yeezy boost polo ralph lauren outlet coach factory outlet online uggs canada goose uk adidas nmd yeezy boost 350 kate spade outlet store christian louboutin outlet timberland boots longchamp handbags nike shoes timberland outlet tory burch outlet salvatore ferragamo shoes cheap jordans christian louboutin outlet adidas yeezy pandora charms michael kors outlet kobe bryant shoes nike huarache cheap ray bans air jordans ralph lauren outlet adidas outlet coach outlet adidas originals moncler coats christian louboutin shoes michael kors outlet fitflops canada goose outlet nike zoom polo ralph lauren outlet canada goose outlet moncler jackets mbt coach outlet louis vuitton moncler jackets canada goose uk supreme new york fred perry polo ralph lauren outlet canada goose uk moncler jackets cheap nike air max canada goose jackets nmd adidas nmd shoes pandora outlet clb20180425 Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote