[Bobdilan]

Masha-allah, I notice in England there are a lot of English speaking scholars amidst non-english speaking audience.

My question is how many of the scholars manage to give English talks while there are elder chachas that speak bengali or urdu. Because in US the masjids where its predominately Bengali or Urdu we hardly get English talks. Unless masha-Allah UK elders are more open minded..

please advise

[Bletlemof]

Masha-allah, I notice in England there are a lot of English speaking scholars amidst non-english speaking audience.

My question is how many of the scholars manage to give English talks while there are elder chachas that speak bengali or urdu. Because in US the masjids where its predominately Bengali or Urdu we hardly get English talks. Unless masha-Allah UK elders are more open minded..

please advise

Asslamo Allaikum,

US elders and people are most certainly more open minded having lived and experienced both sides.

[Bobdilan]

?

[HonjUopu]

Masha-allah, I notice in England there are a lot of English speaking scholars amidst non-english speaking audience.

My question is how many of the scholars manage to give English talks while there are elder chachas that speak bengali or urdu. Because in US the masjids where its predominately Bengali or Urdu we hardly get English talks. Unless masha-Allah UK elders are more open minded..

please advise

Brother its the same in the UK

Most the talks are in the language of the minorities that the mosque represents.

But as the generations are getting more entrenched, and younger, this is changing and English is more common.

Why dont you go to other mosques ? go to a few others in your neighbourhood, and arrange some talks yourself in English. Or get a brother to volunteer to translate the talks into English for a group of you, without interrupting the main speaker of course, for the benefit of English speakers

[Maydayvar]

I think it is about balance. I think during public holiday, talks ought to be given in English and same should be done at alternate events.
It is generally the elders who regularly attend the masjed and they should not be excluded. I find often some youngstars insisting on all be carried out in English is a reflection of self obsessed culture. It is nothing to do with being open minded!! Odd a lot of the youngstars seems to understand bollywood films well! Also it doesn't beg well for a community that forgot the langauge of their parents. You don't see Frecnch losing their language but the arabs and desi with complex willfully forget!!
Allahualam

[sigrekatonov]

Learn urdu it is not difficult, I learn it by sitting through the talks and within 3/4 months everyday I understood the basics.

Masha-allah, I notice in England there are a lot of English speaking scholars amidst non-english speaking audience.

My question is how many of the scholars manage to give English talks while there are elder chachas that speak bengali or urdu. Because in US the masjids where its predominately Bengali or Urdu we hardly get English talks. Unless masha-Allah UK elders are more open minded..

please advise

[Dodoerabe]

shaikh Hanif luharvi haf from india was in 1 masjid in canada and same question asked by some english speaking ppl
why urdu speaker was invited?so masjid committee invited 2 speakers(urdu and english)but very few listeners were in englisg bayan,even only english speaking ppl sat only in urdu bayan

[textarchive]

why does one need to learn urdu!! This is odd! I love urdu language and know it carrys more emotion, meaning then english but to insist on learning a lanague alien to the land and parents language smell of some sort of wierd complex.

brother chill

[sigrekatonov]

Urdu language in the UK is the language of the elite Muslims, it could easily become a European language. When Britain was invaded by the Normans, French became the language of the elites. I am not insisting they learn urdu, just recommending that they learn it it would be beneficial for all.

why does one need to learn urdu!! This is odd! I love urdu language and know it carrys more emotion, meaning then english but to insist on learning a lanague alien to the land and parents language smell of some sort of wierd complex.

[sigrekatonov]

Elite Muslims meaning the language of the ulama, all the good books are in Urdu. Language is important, English has become a low language 'globalized' into a pigin English. Higher thoughts are difficult to express in English and many words in English are corrupted with Christian ideas...for example saying charity in English and saying sadaqa have completely different feelings associated with them. Sadaqa is rich, charity is like giving your old clothes to a begger...I cannot explain it. Faith and eman are other words that cannot translate well.

I live in a different planet according Br. Abu Zakir according to his line of reasoning!
The pakis here can't even speak urdu - they speak punjabi and Jehalami mirpuri and most bangali here can't speak bangali but a village langue of shylet.. There is no elite here but new money people!
I think Rasuallah (SAW) asked people to speak properly!! This is not to say there is no place for dialect but keep it within your home and don't demand the rest of the country man to speak the village dialect. This is what most sylheti demands and now they think just because one speaks english, they are better then bangali speakers.

[dfuzioniag]

Shaykh al-Islam Mufti Taqi Usmani (daamat barakaatuhum) emphasised the importance of Urdu in particular and, in general, the importance of one's mother tongue. He mentioned that there is a great legacy and wealth of knowledge in Urdu, which a person is deprived of if ignorant of the language.

[mobiphones]

should the malaysians learn urdu? the africans learn urdu? the arabs learn urdu? the bosnians learn urdu? etc

why did the ulama of the subcontinent move away from persian? why didnt thy insist people learn farsi? farsi is a much better language than urdu. what about arabic? why move away from arabic?

makes no sense. no consistency.

[Goooooblin]

should the malaysians learn urdu? the africans learn urdu? the arabs learn urdu? the bosnians learn urdu? etc

why did the ulama of the subcontinent move away from persian? why didnt thy insist people learn farsi? farsi is a much better language than urdu. what about arabic? why move away from arabic?

makes no sense. no consistency.

within the ulama fraternity there are three non-arabic languages which keep their stature. A student of deen learning these will benefit from each of them. They are Persian, Urdu and Turkish.

The reason ulama put lot of pressure on urdu is because of the current scholarship that is currently in urdu, especially the mizaj which has been entrenched in urdu writings. The same was the case for persian as well, but in current setting it is much more feasible to tackle urdu. Turkish is also important if one can distinguish between the good and the bad.

Arabic is a MUST for any student of deen. The oral fluency of arabic is not as much an issue in deen as it is to understand the text, in its proper usage, context and traditional sense.

With all that in mind, consistency remains. All are important arabic being the crown. Urdu being most feasible because of the available scholarship in it. Persian therafter although if someone learns it, I feel an ocean of knowledge awaits him. Turkish stays last but not least.

[imictiorume]

Gain mastery of the national language and become proficient so that you can use it effectively to propagate Islam. Prepare writers and orators and, although you will distance yourself from their religion, do not distance yourself from them. Earn credibility through your daily activities

http://engagersindawah.blogspot.co.u...ali-nadwi.html

However if you decide to live in an enclosed environment content with your Prayers and Fasting, apathetic to the people and society you live in, never introducing them to the high Islamic values, and your own personal qualities, then beware lest any religious or sectarian flares up. In such a situation you will not find safety



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNYKuR0L64g

excellent bayan in english by mufti taqi saheb

[FoetAgerhot46]

within the ulama fraternity there are three non-arabic languages which keep their stature. A student of deen learning these will benefit from each of them. They are Persian, Urdu and Turkish.

The reason ulama put lot of pressure on urdu is because of the current scholarship that is currently in urdu, especially the mizaj which has been entrenched in urdu writings. The same was the case for persian as well, but in current setting it is much more feasible to tackle urdu. Turkish is also important if one can distinguish between the good and the bad.

Arabic is a MUST for any student of deen. The oral fluency of arabic is not as much an issue in deen as it is to understand the text, in its proper usage, context and traditional sense.

With all that in mind, consistency remains. All are important arabic being the crown. Urdu being most feasible because of the available scholarship in it. Persian therafter although if someone learns it, I feel an ocean of knowledge awaits him. Turkish stays last but not least.

An extremely balanced post. Makes a great deal of sense.

[mobiphones]

within the ulama fraternity there are three non-arabic languages which keep their stature. A student of deen learning these will benefit from each of them. They are Persian, Urdu and Turkish.

The reason ulama put lot of pressure on urdu is because of the current scholarship that is currently in urdu, especially the mizaj which has been entrenched in urdu writings. The same was the case for persian as well, but in current setting it is much more feasible to tackle urdu. Turkish is also important if one can distinguish between the good and the bad.

Arabic is a MUST for any student of deen. The oral fluency of arabic is not as much an issue in deen as it is to understand the text, in its proper usage, context and traditional sense.

With all that in mind, consistency remains. All are important arabic being the crown. Urdu being most feasible because of the available scholarship in it. Persian therafter although if someone learns it, I feel an ocean of knowledge awaits him. Turkish stays last but not least.

(in the sub continent perspective) what was wrong with arabic or persian that the ulama started using urdu? why didnt they insist that people learn arabic or persian in the same way that some insist everyone should learn urdu?

[Appeselve]

(in the sub continent perspective) what was wrong with arabic or persian that the ulama started using urdu? why didnt they insist that people learn arabic or persian in the same way that some insist everyone should learn urdu?

Exactly. Also there's one thing encouraging people learn Urdu and there's another thing using Urdu as a teaching medium, which is completely bizzare. Surely the medium should be Arabic in the final years of the alimiyyah course, and in the initial years whichever language (Urdu or otherwise) that is mostly spoken amongst the students in question.

[grosqueneen]

(in the sub continent perspective) what was wrong with arabic or persian that the ulama started using urdu? why didnt they insist that people learn arabic or persian in the same way that some insist everyone should learn urdu?

I think Urdu evolved over time. The early Muslim rulers of India were from Turkey/Central Asia and those who came with them either spoke Turkish or Farsi. I think eventually Urdu came into being because of local population of India spoke Hindi/Sanskrit. So the script (letters) was composed of Arabic/Farsi letter plus some Hindi sounding words. So thats why Urdu is spoken like Hindi but written like Arabic/Farsi.

Moving over to Arabic would not have worked in India as majority population was always Hindus, so Urdu - which was hybrid of Arabic/Farsi and Hindi, was a natural choice.

[mobiphones]

Moving over to Arabic would not have worked in India as majority population was always Hindus, so Urdu - which was hybrid of Arabic/Farsi and Hindi, was a natural choice.

so they compromised on using the better language, ie arabic and farsi, and replaced it with a language which was more easier for the local population to understand?
that adds even more weight to my point.

definitely english is a limited language in comparison to urdu. i am not saying english should be used to teach aspiring ulama. in fact, they should be taught in arabic once they become proficient in it.

but it is pointless using a language amongst laymen which they do not understand. english is not so limited that it cannot be used to transmit the deen to the laity.

[jokilewqs]

Shaykh al-Islam Mufti Taqi Usmani (daamat barakaatuhum) emphasised the importance of Urdu in particular and, in general, the importance of one's mother tongue. He mentioned that there is a great legacy and wealth of knowledge in Urdu, which a person is deprived of if ignorant of the language.

Assalamu Alaikum

Who was he referring to? People of Asian background? Scholars or laymen?

Not referring to Mufti Taqi Sahib (db), but I don't understand how some people seem to think the whole world should learn Urdu. And at the same time they try to discourage people from learing Arabic! I have met more than one such person. It is not allowed to teach anything related to Arabic other than reading in Madrasa, but Urdu is a necessity.

I also think the Ulama who are invited to give talks at Jumma and Eid in an english speaking country should determine whether it is more beneficial for such talks to be given in english. I am referring to cases where there will be some youth who dont understand urdu, as well as the local converts who obviously will not understand urdu. It will benefit the ones that dont understand english properly as they should be improving their english if they plan to live in the country. Also they would not feel alienated and would still understand something whereas the convert would be at a total lost.

Some people also react like if it is impossible to learn Arabic without knowing Urdu. I wonder how everyone besides Asians learn Arabic!

I once heard an Alim quote a hadith to the effect that a person who learns a language of a people will be rewarded greatly. He was using it to say that we should try to learn Urdu, but it could also be used to mean that we should try to learn English. If anyone has a reference for the hadith please share it.