[Efksqhyu]

also for information...

"To achieve the Ikhwan’s goals, al-Banna called for a gradualistic approach in which the desired reform could be attained through three stages.

First is the stage of communication and propagation, aimed at exposing the Egyptian society to the true Islamic principles.

Second is the stage of mobilization and organization in which the movement would select and train its active members.

Finally comes the stage of executing and implementing the Islamic rules and principles in which a society is completely transformed into an Islamic one.


__________________________________________________ ________________

" Generally speaking, although the Ikhwan’s approach appeared to be for the most part peaceful and gradualistic, it was potentially violent.

While Article IV, section 2 of the Ikhwan’s 1945 basic regulations stated that: "the Brethren will always prefer gradual advancement and development ..."

several statements by the Ikhwan’s leadership showed that they were inclined to resort to violence in such circumstances as those which transpired under al-Nuqrashi Pasha’s government.

Al-Banna, for example, clearly asserted that he would not hesitate to use violence if he were forced to do so, or when the Ikhwan were ready to seize power

:"The Brethren will use practical force whenever there is no other way and whenever they are sure the implement of faith and unity is ready.

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=17065

[avavavava]

for your continued and insightful responses.

I recently was reading some statements from ikhwanweb.com

Here is deputy leader of MB al Shater:

Al-Shater added that the Muslim Brotherhood and the Freedom and Justice Party (FJP) hope this vitality and awareness will continue among the Egyptian people, to protect the revolution and achieve its goals.
"The first of these goals is building a modern democratic political system, based on institutions eager to serve the people and depend on the peaceful transfer and circulation of power, on the rule of law and respect for human rights and the rights of citizenship as well as rights of minorities, - institutions keen to safeguard independence of the judiciary, and to provide security and safety for all Egyptians.
"The second goal is to launch the integrated initiatives of comprehensive revival, rejuvenation and development, with the aim of providing a good, decent and dignified life fit for the Egyptian people and their great history." These are nationalistic, secular goals. In fact, the Egyptian nationalism common in Egypt actuall runs contrary to the Egyptian constitution's first stated aim of article 1:


and the Egyptian people are a part of the Arab nation working toward achieving its comprehensive unity. and article 2:

Islam is the religion of the state, and the Arabic language is its official language. The principles of Islamic law are the chief source of legislation.


As well, Mursi has said recently:

There is no such thing called an Islamic democracy. There is democracy only and democracy is the instrument that is present now. The people are the source of authority,” he said.


Openly supporting nationalism and confining one's language to nationalism is a far cry from simply refraining from being nationalistic, and it's entirely opposite of condemning nationalism, which is what believers do when they Enjoin Right and Forbid Evil.

This very likely why Shafiq received 48% of the votes despite openly stating that he will continue on the path of Mubarak.

[raspirator]

It is consistent with Islam to recognize that only a coup of the SCAF and arrest, detainment, and seizure of SCAF power and the generals corp can allow for progress towards an Islamic state and liberation of the Muslim people from kufr.

And this coup must occur through miltiary officers convinced of the leadership and objectives of the movement. As the MB has chosen to rely on elections and ignored the requirement of military support, it positions itself AGAIN to be defeated as in Algeria, as in Turkey, as in Sudan, and elsewhere.

And Allah knows best.

interesting, but what makes you so confident of finding a group of generals within the army who would stage a coup for Islam? HT has been toying with similar idea (or wishful thinking) since ages and it has not reached anywhere. I think this assumption is more impractical than what Ikhwan is attempting.

[MaraReenece]

Having Islam as the state religion is just a technique used by secularists to be able to make laws as they see fit.

I have no idea why any Muslim would consider the Ikhwani Muslimeen as possible heroes of Islamic governance and rule, they have made riba banking halal...this in itself ought to show the Muslim supporters the direction of their rule. How can a Muslim make riba banking halal?

A free pdf book to read here:

Sultaniya

Sultaniyya is the definitive modern statement on leadership in Islam. Shaykh Abdalqadir surveys Islam under the chapter headings Deen, Dawla (polity), Waqf, Trade, the Sultan — personal rule — and Tasawwuf.

This book is the only current statement on Islamic leadership outside of the false rhetoric of constitutional democracy and capitalism, beyond terrorism and tolerance.

The book also includes a comprehensive and inspiring review of the system of Awqaf under the Osmanli Khalifate, which they based on the Sunna of our Messenger, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, as well as a summary of our own models of Islamic Trade as they can be applied in this age.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1K...2JNOXRHQ0RuVGM

[KeettyGlots]

Third, it fails to clearly and conclusively mention or offer ANY possible alternative vision, plan, strategy, objectives once it is in power.
How can unaware people trust such a party when they don't know what they advocate and to what they strive?
For many in Egypt, to be a political movement and offer NO specific long term objective sparks mistrust and suggests irresponsbility. Most people will vote pragmatically if they are NOT convinced of an idea.
As a result, people will NOT trust or support such a movement. Rather than presenting an Islamic state and Shariah as a draft form and convincing people of both- even if modified to meet new demands or expectations- the MB has attempted to ride into political power through reputation. While the average voter may be insignificant to MB leadership, this criticial omission fails to win over those in the military heirarchy who might sympathize with the idea of an Islamic state following Shariah. And as Scaf has shown, IT is the power of Egypt and can and will nullify elections at will.

I think the word "Muslim" in the name of the movement "Muslim-brotherhood" played a big role in people voting them to power.

I think we should support them, advise them, and speak well of them in order to give a good representation of Islami politicians, with time maybe we can dominate the military institution and intelligence agencies,then no one could stop Shari`ah from being implemented.

[gennnniiikk]

I think we should support them, advise them, and speak well of them in order to give a good representation of Islami politicians, with time maybe we can dominate the military institution and intelligence agencies,then no one could stop Shari`ah from being implemented.

i think thats what brother usama2 meant when he mentioned gradualism. i don't know how to trust a political party with gradualism.

[KeettyGlots]

i think thats what brother usama2 meant when he mentioned gradualism. i don't know how to trust a political party with gradualism.

Just work towards paving the road to Islamic Shari`ah.

Ameer al-Mumineen`Umar ibn `Abdul-`Aziz (rah) used gradualism.

[gennnniiikk]

Just work towards paving the road to Islamic Shari`ah.

Ameer al-Mumineen`Umar ibn `Abdul-`Aziz (rah) used gradualism.

do you think this gradualism is allowed if the party proposes laws that are contrary to islam rather than laws which are a softer opinion on a masla?
i am generally asking.

[KeettyGlots]

do you think this gradualism is allowed if the party proposes laws that are contrary to islam rather than laws which are a softer opinion on a masla?
i am generally asking.

I think the Muslim-brotherhood are using Taqqiyah and have long term plans of taking over the country and establishing their own rule.

Government after government it will become more Islamic until Taqqiyah is completely dropped.

Otherwise they're just pathetic.

[MaraReenece]

The greatest danger posed by groups like the Ikhwani Muslimeen is their use of Islamic terminology to describe their actions and policies. If they are ever implemented they will fail, and because they use Islamic terms it will look like Islam has failed. What Egypt needs is Islamic re-education of the youth from grass roots...they do not need a socialist style political party using Islamic labels to implement their socialism, nationalism and fascism. Islam is just a word and in the neo-salafi dominated Arab world most people think it is socialism...they need re-educating so they can know what Islam really is.

Gradualism cannot work by making the haram halal when you start out. If they said Riba is haram and banks are haram and we will gradually phase them out and implement this alternative way...they might be acceptable...but they have not done this...they have said Riba is halal and Capitalist banks have been Islamasised. This is distorting the deen and making it into a capitalist Islam. The bankers did the same thing in the Christian west...which has brought us to where we are now.

[orapope]

I think the Muslim-brotherhood are using Taqqiyah and have long term plans of taking over the country and establishing their own rule.

Government after government it will become more Islamic until Taqqiyah is completely dropped.

This is clear if you know anything about their history. It is one reason why you will not find any Western institution praise them for their Democratic nature.

Imam Hassan al Bana Shaheed (ra) wrote...

[QUOTE]Dear truthful brothers,

.... you should be certain that our ideology is purely Islamic, and that you should understand Islam within the bounds of the following twenty concise principles.

Islam is a comprehensive system which deals with all spheres of life.

It is a country and homeland or a government and a nation.

It is conduct and power or mercy and justice.

It is a culture and a law or knowledge and jurisprudence.

It is material and wealth or gain and prosperity.

It is Jihad and a call or army and a cause.

And finally, it is true belief and correct worship.

The glorious Qur'an and the purified tradition (Sunnah) of the Prophet (peace be upon him) are the reference points for every Muslim to acquaint himself with the rules of Islam.

The Qur'an can be understood by applying the rules of the Arabic language without constraint or controversy.

and the Sunnah can be acquired by reference to the trustworthy transmitters of Ahaadeeth (collected sayings of the Prophet).
....
Just because incorrect practices are common amongst the people, it does not change the label it has been ascribed by Sharee’ah. Rather we must define the intended meaning. We must also be on the guard for deceptive words relating to worldly and religious matters. What is worth considering is not names but what these names stand for.
....
Islam liberates the mind, urges contemplation of the universe, honours science and scientists, and welcomes all that is good and beneficial to mankind: ‘Wisdom is the lost property of the believer. Wherever he finds it, he is more deserving to it.’
....

"The Qur'an is our constitution, and the Prophet is our example."

[MaraReenece]

Yet their actions speak otherwise...if Islam has its own law regarding riba, why have they not got an alternative to the Riba system? They have made Riba Banking halal by calling it Islamic Banking. Historically they have used Socialist/Communist Revolutionary methods, calling themselves the vanguard against the Jahili sea of non Muslim society against which Terror re-named Jihad is acceptable.

They are not to be trusted already they have made the haraam into halal this is not acceptable.



[QUOTE=AbdurRaheem2;784139]This is clear if you know anything about their history. It is one reason why you will not find any Western institution praise them for their Democratic nature.

Imam Hassan al Bana Shaheed (ra) wrote...

Dear truthful brothers,

.... you should be certain that our ideology is purely Islamic, and that you should understand Islam within the bounds of the following twenty concise principles.

Islam is a comprehensive system which deals with all spheres of life.

It is a country and homeland or a government and a nation.

It is conduct and power or mercy and justice.

It is a culture and a law or knowledge and jurisprudence.

It is material and wealth or gain and prosperity.

It is Jihad and a call or army and a cause.

And finally, it is true belief and correct worship.

The glorious Qur'an and the purified tradition (Sunnah) of the Prophet (peace be upon him) are the reference points for every Muslim to acquaint himself with the rules of Islam.

The Qur'an can be understood by applying the rules of the Arabic language without constraint or controversy.

and the Sunnah can be acquired by reference to the trustworthy transmitters of Ahaadeeth (collected sayings of the Prophet).
....
Just because incorrect practices are common amongst the people, it does not change the label it has been ascribed by Sharee’ah. Rather we must define the intended meaning. We must also be on the guard for deceptive words relating to worldly and religious matters. What is worth considering is not names but what these names stand for.
....
Islam liberates the mind, urges contemplation of the universe, honours science and scientists, and welcomes all that is good and beneficial to mankind: ‘Wisdom is the lost property of the believer. Wherever he finds it, he is more deserving to it.’
....

"The Qur'an is our constitution, and the Prophet is our example."

[orapope]

Yet their actions speak otherwise...if Islam has its own law regarding riba, why have they not got an alternative to the Riba system?

Since the Muslim Brotherhood was founded one of its goals was removing riba from the Muslims lands.

They have made Riba Banking halal by calling it Islamic Banking.

This is incorrect. Islamic Banking is not the same thing as Riba banking. The Muslim Brotherhood's party in Egypts initial policy is to allow the irreligious to use riba banks, but to ensure that real riba free banking is available throughout Egypt.

The fact that most existing Islamic banks have run after profits at the expense of their true halal status does not mean that there is anything wrong with Islamic Banking if it done with integrity.

True Islamic banking has been promoted by scholars like Mufti Taqi Uthmani (db) (see
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=S...page&q&f=false), who have criticized the Islamic banks engaged in dubious practises.

Historically they have used Socialist/Communist Revolutionary methods, calling themselves the vanguard against the Jahili sea of non Muslim society against which Terror re-named Jihad is acceptable.

This is not accurate. You are confusing Qutbists with mainstream Muslim Brotherhood. Many of Syed Qutb's more controversial ideas have been denounced by the mainstream Muslim Brotherhood.

Furthermore the Muslim Brotherhood itself has nothing to do with terrorism, indeed it has waged quite a war of words against al-Qaeda (see http://www.ikhwanweb.com/articles.php?pid=86&start=0)

They are not to be trusted already they have made the haraam into halal this is not acceptable.

Brother you are waging a war of words against the Muslim Brotherhood and making various unfounded accusations against them. All round you have many misconceptions about them.

Please remember that it is easier to critisize those who are doing something than it is to do it yourself.

[MaraReenece]

QUOTE =AbdurRaheem2;784209]This is incorrect. Islamic Banking is not the same thing as Riba banking. The Muslim Brotherhood's party in Egypts initial policy is to allow the irreligious to use riba banks, but to ensure that real riba free banking is available throughout Egypt. Changing the definition of what is riba is not acceptable. So called Islamic banks use Riba...they use fractional reserve lending techniques and they go to the central bank for funds when they have got low reserves...they pay interest on this. In addition to this the lending techniques adopted by these banks are not Halal, even Taqi Uthmani admits this. The Ikhwani Muslimeen are a trojan horse working to make Capitalism agreeable to Muslims.

[Efksqhyu]

QUOTE

Changing the definition of what is riba is not acceptable. So called Islamic banks use Riba...they use fractional reserve lending techniques and they go to the central bank for funds when they have got low reserves...they pay interest on this. In addition to this the lending techniques adopted by these banks are not Halal, even Taqi Uthmani admits this. The Ikhwani Muslimeen are a trojan horse working to make Capitalism agreeable to Muslims.

They are working to re-establish Islam and Muslim unity brother.

[gennnniiikk]

why female and coptic VP?
do you know what the ulema have said regarding this?

please listen to this

shariah is 'imposing religion'?or am i missing the point?does he even know what shariah is?

and what about this?

this gradualism line is being stretched too far!

[avavavava]

interesting, but what makes you so confident of finding a group of generals within the army who would stage a coup for Islam? HT has been toying with similar idea (or wishful thinking) since ages and it has not reached anywhere. I think this assumption is more impractical than what Ikhwan is attempting.

My primary consideration towards such a plan is based on the Prophet's example.
He essentially staged a "shift of power and support" in Yathrib of the Arab tribes of Aus and Khazraj, from Abdullah bin Ubayy al Salul being crowned the first king of Yathrib to Islam and the rule of the Prophet in an 'Islamic state' in Al Madinah Munawwara.

[TMQ]
(17:80) And pray: "My Lord! Cause me to enter wherever it be, with Truth, and cause me to exit, wherever it be, with Truth, and support me with authority from Yourself."

This ayah is seen as the proof of and command to accept the 'coup' and move to Yathrib.

Tafsir on this ayah:

"That is, either grant me power and authority or make some government my helper so that I may use its power to reform the corrupt world. This is because power is required to check indecency and sin and to enforce the law of justice.

Hasan Basri and Qatadah have made the same interpretation of this verse, and the great commentators like Ibn Jarir and Ibn Kathir have adopted the same. This is supported by a tradition of the Prophet (peace be upon him): Allah eradicates by the power of government those evils, which are not eradicated by the teachings of the Quran. This is a clear proof that according to Islam, political power is also required to introduce reform, for admonition alone is not enough for this. Besides this, when Allah Himself has taught this prayer to His Prophet (peace be upon him) for the establishment of His way and enforcement of His law, it is not only lawful but desirable to acquire power and those, who consider this to be a worldly thing, are obviously in the wrong. What is really worldliness is that one should desire and acquire power for his own interest. On the contrary, the desire of power for the sake of Allah’s way is not the worship of the world but the worship of God." tahfeem.net

From Ibn Kathir's commentary on this ayah:

Al-Hasan Al-Basri explained this Ayah; "His Lord promised to take away the kingdom and glory of Persia and give it to him, and the kingdom and glory of Byzantium and give it to him.'' Qatadah said, "The Prophet of Allah knew that that he could not achieve this without authority or power, so he asked for authority to help him support the Book of Allah, the Laws of Allah, the obligations of Allah and to establish the religion of Allah. Authority is a mercy from Allah which He places among His servants, otherwise some of them would attack others, and the strong would consume the weak.'' Alongside the truth, he also needed power and authority in order to suppress those who opposed and resisted him, hence Allah said:

﴿لَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا رُسُلَنَا بِالْبَيِّنَـتِ﴾
(Indeed We have sent Our Messengers with clear proofs,) until His saying,

﴿وَأَنزْلْنَا الْحَدِيدَ﴾
(And We brought forth iron) ﴿57:25﴾ qtafsir.com

Tafsirs' Jalalayn and Asbabul Nuzul concur with the above.

And the example of the Prophet is that he first)made a public Dawah clear with the text and explanation for all, second)he prepared a group of believers who were cultured and guided sufficiently to lead and rule with such power, third) the power of Yathrib turned in their favor thereafter at the work of Musab ibn Umayr after two years.

I don't see HT establishing the first in Egypt, nor do they have the second within Egypt.
MB have the second, but have failed to present the first coherently.
Gamaatul Islamiya have been banned in Egypt, so they have neither the first nor have they been able to establish the second.

And Allah knows best.

[Andrew1978]

"ikhwaan" is a political movement, and "muslims" refer to the state of an individuals relationship with his Creator.

Is the question inherently biased towards conflagurating the two in an artificially constructed manner ?

This bias lends to a conclusion that implies we need a forceful revolution, rather than work in peace, within known boundaries and trust in Allah for success ?

This only furthers the causes of violence and disharmony as the approach is top down rather from the individual up ?

The fruits of violence will only beget more violence, so Peace as in Islam, will not flourish ?

[Beragagnu]

Muslim people are their own worst enemies.....why must we fear foreigners when we have enemies from with in ? these people will enslave you, stand in the way of your happiness...the progress of your nation...determine your future for you, impose themselves on you, kill you.. butcher you, they will condemn you to hellfire, excommunicate you from Islam for daring to stand up to them, challenging them or for practising Islam differently to them, etc etc etc

[orapope]

Muslim people are their own worst enemies.....why must we fear foreigners when we have enemies from with in ? these people will enslave you, stand in the way of your happiness...the progress of your nation...determine your future for you, impose themselves on you, kill you.. butcher you, they will condemn you to hellfire, excommunicate you from Islam for daring to stand up to them, challenging them or for practising Islam differently to them, etc etc etc

sorry sister I don't understand are you referring to the kings and secularist dictators or the Islamists, or all of them?