[jarsbars]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...qwT_print.html

[fudelholf]

Nice

[alexbookhyip]

Let's see how long this situation lasts. Because this has happened without any major struggle.

[johnteriz]

Let's see how long this situation lasts. Because this has happened without any major struggle.

How long can a gang of foreigners apply shariah? Not much long. The poverty and powerless state of Mali people is the only reason why these men armed with foreign guns are having nice time here. My fear is the reactionery apostasy that might result due to the harsh bedoin ways of these foreign gangs.

[jarsbars]

How long can a gang of foreigners apply shariah? Not much long. The poverty and powerless state of Mali people is the only reason why these men armed with foreign guns are having nice time here. My fear is the reactionery apostasy that might result due to the harsh bedoin ways of these foreign gangs.

Please don't pass judgement without understanding the full nature of the situation. There are many foreign mujahideen there but most of them are in fact local mujahideen. If they are attacked, they will continue their jihad and I don't see how they are being harsh in any way; all they are doing is implementing the Sharia and if the locals find it harsh, then so be it. The Sharia cannot be changed for them

[Precturge]

How long can a gang of foreigners apply shariah? Not much long. The poverty and powerless state of Mali people is the only reason why these men armed with foreign guns are having nice time here. My fear is the reactionery apostasy that might result due to the harsh bedoin ways of these foreign gangs.

Are you talking on the basis of Nationalism or Shari'ah?
Are you going to accept Shari'ah only if done by people with the same skin colour race and language as yours?

[johnteriz]

Are you talking on the basis of Nationalism or Shari'ah?
Are you going to accept Shari'ah only if done by people with the same skin colour race and language as yours?

These gangs are neither Islamic scholars nor leaders of the community. They have no authority to go around with their self styled namesake "shariah" implemented by dubious means that come down to nothing but la madhabi ramblings of the modern day khawarij. The khawarij of the past used to in a similar way go to weak powerless villages and impose their pseudo shariah and pseudo jihadi programmes. They also put takfir on people because of the absence of a general forbiddence of evil by the community.

[Precturge]

These gangs are neither Islamic scholars nor leaders of the community. They have no authority to go around with their self styled namesake "shariah" implemented by dubious means that come down to nothing but la madhabi ramblings of the modern day khawarij. The khawarij of the past used to in a similar way go to weak powerless villages and impose their pseudo shariah and pseudo jihadi programmes. They also put takfir on people because of the absence of a general forbiddence of evil by the community.

Shari'ah has to be implemented.

When "traditional scholars" don't strive for it, "la madhabi modern day khawarij" will take their place..

And still, Shari'ah implemented by "not perfect" people is better than kufr legislation, isn't it?

By the way, which of the ruling they have been implementing so far make them deserve the expression "self styled namesake "shariah"" and "pseudo shariah"?

[DavidShreder]

So what if the sharia understanding of the locals differs from that of those that hold the guns? Are acceptable differences allowed or are they imposing one groups view of islam on the rest.

[Precturge]

So what if the sharia understanding of the locals differs from that of those that hold the guns? Are acceptable differences allowed or are they imposing one groups view of islam on the rest.

What kind of differences in "Shari'ah understanding" are you talking about?

One thing is legitimate madhahib differences (which I don't think an imarah/khilafah would have any interest in digging in), another is having two opinions about clear-cut elements of Shari'ah (be it hudud or what else), which is not allowed.

[johnteriz]

Shari'ah has to be implemented.

When "traditional scholars" don't strive for it, "la madhabi modern day khawarij" will take their place..

And still, Shari'ah implemented by "not perfect" people is better than kufr legislation, isn't it?

By the way, which of the ruling they have been implementing so far make them deserve the expression "self styled namesake "shariah"" and "pseudo shariah"?

Shariah is implemented by those who have the authority to do so by shariah means that are possible. I can't just form a bunch of gang with guns and then go around doing jihad against Muslims themselves.

The sins of a Muslim does not give the modern day khawarij any authority to jihad upon muslims. The khawarij are to be killed like the people of Ad and thamud were destroyed.

The khawarij are not authorities to decide who committed kufr or not and what actions should be done in response..there are Islamic scholars and those in authority who will analyse that by due process and there are shariah way of correcting it if ur allegations of kufr has some truth in it. Not wearing a hijab and having a non hijabi girls poster on a street does not make one a kafir.

Their feeble outward show of adherance in some relatively much less important issues is what I called namesake shariah. Like the hadith says, things don't enter beyond the throats of the khawarij. And by self styled I referred to their dubious naxalite and bandit style means and dubious authorities they take opinions of shariah from.

What would happen is the same story. These young fools who are tools of the dajjal, would come up with some weird, stupid and bedoin understanding of shariah that would drive the local population much averse to shariah and the leader of the khawarij, the dajjal, would enter to drive people to the other extreme of apostacy and atheistic secularism.

[avavavava]

Let us put the issue of "Shariah in Mali" in proper perspective before we rush to our conclusions.

FIRST: We do NOT have authenticated information about what, how, who, when, where Shariah is being implemented in Mali.

The Washington Post is the world's Premier American Neo Conservative media source. It IS mainstream American media establishment.
And it's source in Mali is the Associated Press. The Associated Press is a global network of select reporters who are essentially ideological partners in secularism, humanism= kufr. The Associated Press are highly selective of their reporters and Zionists are dominant in their leadership and selection process.

So the source cited in this thread is NOT credible by itself.

SECOND: ASABIYAH is HARAM!!!! Nationalism is a form of asabiyah, as is racism. And so is hizbiyah, or partisanism. Hating and fighting against someone simply because of his party or group is a violation of brotherhood in Islam and is hizbiyah. The groups in Mali, quite frankly, we don't even know their TRUE names. Kufar routinely misguide about Islamic groups.
I do NOT accept the kufar media or kufar Taghut power defining Muslims, period.

Can you REALLY condemn Muslim brothers based solely on a report by zionist enemies of Islam, who are masters at distortion, misguidance?
You can render a judgement about them based solely on the reports by the enemies of Islam?



THIRD: There is a process in ruling according to what Allah has revealed.
a) The Muslim Ummah definitely has an obligation to rule by what Allah has revealed. That obligation is classified as Fardh kifaya: if some succeed, then the obligation is fulfilled for all. So this matter is of pressing importance that has been neglected for over 80 years by this Ummah, and we are facing the consequences of that sinful neglect.

b)The Ummah is expected to select a ruler from amongst them to implement Islam.
c) The Ummah is expected to give baya` to that ruler.
d) The ruler and the Ummah together implement Islam.

I have received no reliable credible information from Mali that they have not undertaken this process in Mali, apparently. Not yet at least. :insha: they will.

Pay close attention to the kufar media: they omit basic facts.
Who is the leader of the Taureg?
Who is the ruler of the Taureg held region?
What does he say about ruling according to what Allah has revealed?

Brothers, beware of rushing to judgement and condemnation of fellow Muslims. Especially if the kufar are your source. You fall into their devilish game.

And Allah knows best.

[johnteriz]

Let us put the issue of "Shariah in Mali" in proper perspective before we rush to our conclusions.

FIRST: We do NOT have authenticated information about what, how, who, when, where Shariah is being implemented in Mali.

The Washington Post is the world's Premier American Neo Conservative media source. It IS mainstream American media establishment.
And it's source in Mali is the Associated Press. The Associated Press is a global network of select reporters who are essentially ideological partners in secularism, humanism= kufr. The Associated Press are highly selective of their reporters and Zionists are dominant in their leadership and selection process.

So the source cited in this thread is NOT credible by itself.

SECOND: ASABIYAH is HARAM!!!! Nationalism is a form of asabiyah, as is racism. And so is hizbiyah, or partisanism. Hating and fighting against someone simply because of his party or group is a violation of brotherhood in Islam and is hizbiyah. The groups in Mali, quite frankly, we don't even know their TRUE names. Kufar routinely misguide about Islamic groups.
I do NOT accept the kufar media or kufar Taghut power defining Muslims, period.

Can you REALLY condemn Muslim brothers based solely on a report by zionist enemies of Islam, who are masters at distortion, misguidance?
You can render a judgement about them based solely on the reports by the enemies of Islam?



THIRD: There is a process in ruling according to what Allah has revealed.
a) The Muslim Ummah definitely has an obligation to rule by what Allah has revealed. That obligation is classified as Fardh kifaya: if some succeed, then the obligation is fulfilled for all. So this matter is of pressing importance that has been neglected for over 80 years by this Ummah, and we are facing the consequences of that sinful neglect.

b)The Ummah is expected to select a ruler from amongst them to implement Islam.
c) The Ummah is expected to give baya` to that ruler.
d) The ruler and the Ummah together implement Islam.

I have received no reliable credible information from Mali that they have not undertaken this process in Mali, apparently. Not yet at least. :insha: they will.

Pay close attention to the kufar media: they omit basic facts.
Who is the leader of the Taureg?
Who is the ruler of the Taureg held region?
What does he say about ruling according to what Allah has revealed?

Brothers, beware of rushing to judgement and condemnation of fellow Muslims. Especially if the kufar are your source. You fall into their devilish game.

And Allah knows best.

There is no asbaiyyah here. Its about people enforcing their own self styled cultural bedoin islam using the threat of gun, on another people who have their historical tradition of islam handed down to them through a chain of authorities. Its about young zealots trying to do something their barely have knowledge, understanding, experience and wisdom to do. And ofcourse no authority.

The ahlus sunnah of Mali has been fighting against wahabis for long and will continue so no matter what camouflage the wahabis put on.

These guys are tools of the dajal just as the Muhammed Bin Abdul Wahab's khawarij fanaticism became a tool for the British or Dajjal. They too boasted about "return to purity" but ended with only worser and further breakdown and divisions of the whole community by their 200years of espousing self styled Islam . A Islamic union under Turkish caliph was way better than that came after. And so would it be far worse what these khawarij that keeping raising their heads until dajjal emerges among them, would lead too.

[Precturge]

Let me firstly clarity that I'm not a "wahhabi" but I don't have any sympathy for pseudo-"traditional" scholars stooges of the tawagheet.

The khawarij are not authorities to decide who committed kufr or not and what actions should be done in response..there are Islamic scholars and those in authority who will analyse that by due process and there are shariah way of correcting it if ur allegations of kufr has some truth in it. Not wearing a hijab and having a non hijabi girls poster on a street does not make one a kafir.

Who's saying that?

The point is that Shari'ah has to be implemented, if ""islamic scholars" don't act in this direction and prefer to live in the shade of tawaghit governements applying kafir systems of law, it's their fault, not that of other groups taking initiative.
And we don't need scholars to judge when something is apparent, i.e. system of kufr being applied instead of Shari'ah.

There is no asbaiyyah here. Its about people enforcing their own self styled cultural bedoin islam using the threat of gun, on another people who have their historical tradition of islam handed down to them through a chain of authorities.

This rethoric on "traditional Islam with 'ijazah" doesn't absolve anyone from his duties.
Applying Shari'ah is fard.
Why hasn't this "people who have their historical tradition of islam handed down to them through a chain of authorities" made any effort in this regard leaving the job to salafis?
And after that, even worse, countered their efforts on the ground of hizbiyyah, instead of joining their forces or even better, sobstituiting to them and run proper "wise traditional bla bla" Shari'ah instead of leaving it to them and staying safe under the shade of kuffar tyrants?

[johnteriz]

Let me firstly clarity that I'm not a "wahhabi" but I don't have any sympathy for pseudo-"traditional" scholars stooges of the tawagheet.

Yea but dont presume everyone other than you and the ones you support are stooges of the tawgheet. There are plenty of scholars who chose to take a role of advising the ruler and reforming that way while there are others who took a role of boycotting the ruler. Throwing the word "tawgheet" randomly as ad hominem is not the way.

Who's saying that? Its implied by the jihad declared against Muslims. Dar al Islam turned into dar al harb.

The point is that Shari'ah has to be implemented, if ""islamic scholars" don't act in this direction and prefer to live in the shade of tawaghit governements applying kafir systems of law, it's their fault, not that of other groups taking initiative.
And we don't need scholars to judge when something is apparent, i.e. system of kufr being applied instead of Shari'ah. Shariah is implemented by those have power and authority tto implement it. Mind you shariah being discussed here is the only narrow part of its implementation at a state level. Such implementation would be responsibility when a guy does have tthe necessary power and conditions to implement it fully. A person is not held responsible for what is not within his power. Moreover, not implementing does not make it kufr just as not fasting in the month of ramadan does not make u a kafir. Learn the difference between a sinner and a kafir, something with early khawarij were mislead. How much more mislead would then be the khawarij of the present era ?

Secondly, bidah is bidah. Khawarij are the dogs of hell fire. If you want to be among them then so be it. You wouldnt mind shia ayatollahs also applying their own self styled "shariah" upon you since you hide your fascination for the people of bidah by using the "Sunni traditionalists are inactive" argument.

The "apparent" kufr you talk off is yet somehow only getting noticed by a small group of young kids with no proper Islamic education. Surprising indeed.

This rethoric on "traditional Islam with 'ijazah" doesn't absolve anyone from his duties. But it does give authority to declare whether there is such a duty or not in the first place. Just because some random guy one day woke up and thought everyone is a kafir doesn't mean i go and join him in a jihad against everyone. Reminds of Jamate Islami one day declaring everyeone part of democracy as mushriks and the next day they themselves have their own democratic party. Same goes for your heroic salafis in Egypt. And the gullible still think they are a credible force.

The prophet talked about different types of rulers ruling Muslims which includes the arival of tyrants. But according to your analysis the hadith somehow forget to mention that there would be this era of "tawgheet kafirs" being rulers of muslims.


Applying Shari'ah is fard.
Why hasn't this "people who have their historical tradition of islam handed down to them through a chain of authorities" made any effort in this regard leaving the job to salafis? Tearing a bunch of non hijabi girls poster and beating women and making them wear a certain type of clothing does not make it the all and all of shariah. It just a outward farce.

The present state is a result of past events and conditions. Each place has their own conditions and righteous ulemas have their own halal methodology of bringing things back on track. A bunch of foreign nobody's with guns have no authority whatsoever. They should be killed like the khawarij are killed when they decleared their jihad against Muslims.

And after that, even worse, countered their efforts on the ground of hizbiyyah, instead of joining their forces or even better, sobstituiting to them and run proper "wise traditional bla bla" Shari'ah instead of leaving it to them and staying safe under the shade of kuffar tyrants? Join the khawarij to hell fire? No thank you. It is dajjal that will emerge from their ranks as the prophet foretold.

Lets up the stake against these khawarij claiming to be working for Islam. Let them bring all the ahlus sunnah ulemas of Mali following the regional madhab i.e Maliki and representing the large segment of the community of Muslims and give them as a council of ulema the full power to make Islamic rulings for the state, without any interference in the rulings and promising they will abide by it. Ill change my mind then.

[AnypecekceS]

These guys are tools of the dajal just as the Muhammed Bin Abdul Wahab's khawarij fanaticism became a tool for the British or Dajjal. They too boasted about "return to purity" but ended with only worser and further breakdown and divisions of the whole community by their 200years of espousing self styled Islam . A Islamic union under Turkish caliph was way better than that came after. And so would it be far worse what these khawarij that keeping raising their heads until dajjal emerges among them, would lead too. You truly are a ridiculous charlatan with it's all the "Wahabis" fault. Are you going to quote "Hempher" next? What about the treachery of Sharif Hussein? What about the treachery of King Abdullah I whose treachery and collaboration with the Zionists lead to the loss of Palestine? How come the brazenly hypocritical anti-Salafi "traditionalists" and Sufis never talk about this?!


The "apparent" kufr you talk off is yet somehow only getting noticed by a small group of young kids with no proper Islamic education. Surprising indeed. So when many ulama made takfeer of many of the Arab leaders, they are just a bunch of young kids. Is it no wonder that your Habashi cousins made tahleel of of the Assads and declared Ibn TYaymiyyah the biggest kafir.

[johnteriz]

You truly are a ridiculous charlatan with it's all the "Wahabis" fault. Are you going to quote "Hempher" next? What about the treachery of Sharif Hussein? What about the treachery of King Abdullah I whose treachery and collaboration with the Zionists lead to the loss of Palestine? How come the brazenly hypocritical anti-Salafi "traditionalists" and Sufis never talk about this?!

They were put into power by your same british masters. Your wahabism wouldn't have existed without your dajjal master. Really silly to potray every leader as a representative of traditionalists just because I dont follow your khawarij takfiri brigade standing at the doors of hell.

So when many ulama made takfeer of many of the Arab leaders, they are just a bunch of young kids. Is it no wonder that your Habashi cousins made tahleel of of the Assads and declared Ibn TYaymiyyah the biggest kafir. Bring the agreed upon fatwa of respected Sunni ulema representating the maliki madhab that puts takfir on ruler of Mali and validating armed jihad to replace him. If you can't then go vanish.

And there are plenty of respected Sunni scholars who put takfir on Ibn Taymiyya. Get a better example next time.

[gennnniiikk]

There is no asbaiyyah here. Its about people enforcing their own self styled cultural bedoin islam using the threat of gun,

bedoin eh?so anyone else who is not a bedoin but still a salafi would be acceptable to you. that in itself is asbaiyyah. thanks for the contradiction.

on another people who have their historical tradition of islam handed down to them through a chain of authorities. Its about young zealots trying to do something their barely have knowledge, understanding, experience and wisdom to do. And ofcourse no authority.

ok, and then you say...

These guys are tools of the dajal just as the Muhammed Bin Abdul Wahab's khawarij fanaticism

which works of the sheikh ahve you studied yourself to claim 'knowledge'? or is it another scholar's 'wrok' you have read about him?
what experience you have in sifting khwarij from ahlul sunnah?any recognized published works?or dyu have just an internet conenction?
what authority do you have to pass judgement on a scholar's work?

The ahlus sunnah of Mali has been fighting against wahabis for long and will continue so no matter what camouflage the wahabis put on.

how did you decipher their identity from within the camoflauge?how are they najdis?
provide evidence or vanish.

[gennnniiikk]

Let us put the issue of "Shariah in Mali" in proper perspective before we rush to our conclusions.

FIRST: We do NOT have authenticated information about what, how, who, when, where Shariah is being implemented in Mali.

The Washington Post is the world's Premier American Neo Conservative media source. It IS mainstream American media establishment.
And it's source in Mali is the Associated Press. The Associated Press is a global network of select reporters who are essentially ideological partners in secularism, humanism= kufr. The Associated Press are highly selective of their reporters and Zionists are dominant in their leadership and selection process.

So the source cited in this thread is NOT credible by itself.

SECOND: ASABIYAH is HARAM!!!! Nationalism is a form of asabiyah, as is racism. And so is hizbiyah, or partisanism. Hating and fighting against someone simply because of his party or group is a violation of brotherhood in Islam and is hizbiyah. The groups in Mali, quite frankly, we don't even know their TRUE names. Kufar routinely misguide about Islamic groups.
I do NOT accept the kufar media or kufar Taghut power defining Muslims, period.

Can you REALLY condemn Muslim brothers based solely on a report by zionist enemies of Islam, who are masters at distortion, misguidance?
You can render a judgement about them based solely on the reports by the enemies of Islam?



THIRD: There is a process in ruling according to what Allah has revealed.
a) The Muslim Ummah definitely has an obligation to rule by what Allah has revealed. That obligation is classified as Fardh kifaya: if some succeed, then the obligation is fulfilled for all. So this matter is of pressing importance that has been neglected for over 80 years by this Ummah, and we are facing the consequences of that sinful neglect.

b)The Ummah is expected to select a ruler from amongst them to implement Islam.
c) The Ummah is expected to give baya` to that ruler.
d) The ruler and the Ummah together implement Islam.

I have received no reliable credible information from Mali that they have not undertaken this process in Mali, apparently. Not yet at least. :insha: they will.

Pay close attention to the kufar media: they omit basic facts.
Who is the leader of the Taureg?
Who is the ruler of the Taureg held region?
What does he say about ruling according to what Allah has revealed?

Brothers, beware of rushing to judgement and condemnation of fellow Muslims. Especially if the kufar are your source. You fall into their devilish game.

And Allah knows best.

aoa,
great informative post

[DavidShreder]

uh oh!! someone said something nasty about the wahabbis, they're not happy now!!