[usatramadolusa]

time for some old-school jihad. as brother umar_italy said 'years of work of tabligh (for society) can be undone in an instant by some laws promulgated by the secular rulers'

No, we do not need military jihad, we need economic and organizational jihad. However Muslims in Muslim lands should all own weapons and guns this is a great deterrent preventing the state from attacking you, they must only be used as a last option, we have not reached that stage yet. At the moment we should be building new institutions within the existing state, by-pass it, peacefully and without causing any harm to anybody...slowly these will become powerful and they will win. Millitary jihad, rebellion, marching in the streets are just useless ways to change modern governments, they only bring about bloodshed, loss of security and no real change.

"Peaceful action" simply means not deliberately provoking the state to repression, but rather doing whatever is possible (in the words of the Wobbly slogan) to "build the structure of the new society within the shell of the old" before we try to break the shell. There is nothing wrong with resisting the state if it tries, through repression, to reverse our progress in building the institutions of the new society. But revolutionary action should meet two criteria: 1) it should have strong popular support; and 2) it should not take place until we have reached the point where peaceful construction of the new society has reached its limits within existing society.

[cabonuserollyo]

Islam will not be restored through participating in political & democratic process.
Islam has its roots from heaven, while demoncracy is from shaytani people.

[NaMbessemab]

Before I really begin to comment upon the topic. I would say that implementing shariah is not a job so easy as it is easy to say. We do say that we must implement Shariah but there has never been a proper approach apart from few instances in the past. The Taliban of Afghanistan stand as an example for me because they took the help of the Scholars of their time and also relied upon the men of worldly knowledge.
I must say that there has to be a proper approach to it. We are living in times of dark fitnah. Fitnah is described as a dark fog/mist through which one cannot see the things beyond it. Most of the society has found itself in or more of such fitnahs which are both at an individual level as well as collective level. Literally speaking today just driving on a road in Karachi will give you a clear hint as to what I am trying to say. You will find numerous advertisements with semi clothed models or you will see ads of insurance companies etc.
In such a society implementing Shariah will NOT be an easy job. For implementing Shariah in today's society with all these fitnahs, in my opinion these points should be taken into consideration:
1) Fighting against any western interests (remember the Ayahs Jews will never be our friends). This includes man-made western systems like democracy. Overthrowing these systems. This obviously falls under the category of Jihad and we will be fighting for the real identity of Islam.
2) While simultaneously a huge campaign to propagate the benefits of implementation of Shariah will have to be carried out wherever we are sure that all western interests have been removed. This includes going to the masses and explaining to them the benefits of Shariah for e.g Sharai Judiciary systems must be compared with the judiciary of today and its advantages must be highlighted.
3) Moreover, there will have to be propagation of Deen in its real essence. This will be Tableegh which will bring masses close to the Deen. This Tableegh will also negate any western ideas of Nationalism, racism or secularism. We will have to become one unit again.
4) Lastly, technological advancements and developments will have to be incorporated in the system. We will have to remain with the world on this matter, this is highly important for our safety.

There may be other things which you people can feel free to add.

[mealiusarses]

Assalam O Alaikum!

I myself asked my Sheikh about the return of Khilafah and he replied;
When there will be people like Khulfa-e-Rashideen, Khilafah would automatically be back again.

JazakAllah Kher!

[slimfifa]

Assalam O Alaikum!

I myself asked my Sheikh about the return of Khilafah and he replied;
When there will be people like Khulfa-e-Rashideen, Khilafah would automatically be back again.

JazakAllah Kher!

Salam,

Exactly, and do you know that many Muslims in Egypt voted against the Islamic government? somewhere around 48 to 51% of the voters voted against Islam, they voted for the old regime actually so there's a big chance the entire revolution is lost.

What is it that we need to do? we know for a fact that we are capable of reaching positions of power and authority, the only problem is in remaining in this position, Also we should work more on the people, I had a couple of religious friends for example who were voting secularist capitalist anti-Islamic thugs, I had to explain to them that voting for such people is equal to Kufr and finally I convinced them, because people are easily tricked by worldly slogans.

[CHEAPPoem]

Salam,

Exactly, and do you know that many Muslims in Egypt voted against the Islamic government? somewhere around 48 to 51% of the voters voted against Islam, they voted for the old regime actually so there's a big chance the entire revolution is lost.

What is it that we need to do? we know for a fact that we are capable of reaching positions of power and authority, the only problem is in remaining in this position, Also we should work more on the people, I had a couple of religious friends for example who were voting secularist capitalist anti-Islamic thugs, I had to explain to them that voting for such people is equal to Kufr and finally I convinced them, because people are easily tricked by worldly slogans.

yeah, tbh i was quite surprised at the number of people voting shafiq!

[mealiusarses]

Salam,

Exactly, and do you know that many Muslims in Egypt voted against the Islamic government? somewhere around 48 to 51% of the voters voted against Islam, they voted for the old regime actually so there's a big chance the entire revolution is lost.

What is it that we need to do? we know for a fact that we are capable of reaching positions of power and authority, the only problem is in remaining in this position, Also we should work more on the people, I had a couple of religious friends for example who were voting secularist capitalist anti-Islamic thugs, I had to explain to them that voting for such people is equal to Kufr and finally I convinced them, because people are easily tricked by worldly slogans.

W salam!
JazakAllah brother ....

You did a good job brother, keep on going with that. The thing is that our brothers & sisters are misguided or confused. So, as a Muslim it's our duty to get them back to the track.
One more thing ...
The literacy rate among Muslim states is still too low, we have to educate our nation, the Ummah.
I myself thinking of to start a campaign, RESET PAKISTAN. Just to make awareness to the people that Islam is not a religion, it's a deen, a complete system/way of life. And my first aim would be the education of Islamic Science.

So, InshAllah! hope for good, there would be better results among the Ummah.

[WaicurtaitfuT]

A world without israel.
Wonderful world.
But there has to satan for muslims to be pious.
So we have to deal with israel and america.

[mealiusarses]

A world without israel.
Wonderful world.
But there has to satan for muslims to be pious.
So we have to deal with israel and america.

The problem is not a U.S. or an Israel. The problem is with us. We are not on true/pious track.
You may find lot many in Israel who are against the illegal occupation of Palestine. Similarly, the U.S. government is under the control of Israel.

[EliteFranceska]

A world without israel.
Wonderful world.
But there has to satan for muslims to be pious.
So we have to deal with israel and america.

Perhaps you are saying that for now we shall keep the US and the Israel. Right?

My complain with Hazrat Umar Italy Sahab is that I, for some time, was thinking of having a thread called Islam is Legitimate. The subject matter was supposed to be the same as of the present thread. Basically the problem is to make the west to accept that Islam is a legitimate ideology. (I know it is a Deen but who shall communicate it to them?)

[Zdfjpbth]

finally a good discussion.

As you all mentioned the problem lies within the masses, not just the top. Deen starts from home, then school, then workplace. Things have to be tackled from many levels. One of the best things we can do is the Islamic upbringing of our own children. So they continue to do that to the next generation. one day we will have a major part of Muslims who actually follow Islam. From among them good righteous leaders shall arise.

This is just one of the things we can do.

[kaysions]

al-Salamu `Aleykum,


Islamic governments/parliaments have been taken down one after the other, Taliban was taken out by NATO, and Hamas which is another Islamic government was taken down by Israel and the Arabs leaders and their secularist rivals Fatah...

Recently the Kuwaiti parliament was dominated by Islamists, so what does the prince do? he dissolves the parliament and gives power to the previous un-Islamic parliament:
http://www.kuna.net.kw/ArticleDetail...81&language=en

Egypt had an Islamist dominated parliament, so what do they do? they dissolve it:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47817477.../#.T-N8obUtg4Q

What is it that we're supposed to do exactly to reach power and remain in power? are we even supposed to assume authority? Learn from your mistakes O Muslims, this is not a call to despair, but we should plan things more seriously from now on... believe it or not Egypt could be lost at this point.

There is a verse in teh Quran to the effect that a Allah does not change a people's state until they change themselves. Shaykh Zakariyya Kandehlwi (rahimahullah) writes in his al-I'tidaal (an excellent book on topic of this thread in fact), that this refers to the dominion of the believers, and the state is the state of hearts with regards to the obedience to Allah. When a majority of a group of people become the people of Allah, Allah will restore their dominion to them.

This restoration will happen however He wills. It may take a day, or a year, or a century. The Taliban are a case in point.

[Nikkkola]

Salam,

Exactly, and do you know that many Muslims in Egypt voted against the Islamic government? somewhere around 48 to 51% of the voters voted against Islam, they voted for the old regime actually so there's a big chance the entire revolution is lost.

What is it that we need to do? we know for a fact that we are capable of reaching positions of power and authority, the only problem is in remaining in this position, Also we should work more on the people, I had a couple of religious friends for example who were voting secularist capitalist anti-Islamic thugs, I had to explain to them that voting for such people is equal to Kufr and finally I convinced them, because people are easily tricked by worldly slogans.

for this new discussion! It is quite timely and thoughtful, keep up the good work!

And these are poignant observations. It is similar to Algeria in which the FLN was voted back into power and Bouteflika was reelected yet again. How is this possible?

For Algeria and Egypt, the leading Islamic groups are Muslim Brotherhood esque.
And by that, they adopt a methodology and strategies which tend to result in the same outcome everywhere it's applied.
1. Public acceptance of the nationalist construct of the state.
2. Public acceptance of the hybridized legal systems of these constructs.
3. Adherence to the 'processes' of these nationalist regimes.
4. Seeking to oppose the regime only through the avenues which the regime allows opposition.
5. Failure to publicly present alternatives to any of the above which are consistent with Islam and the Sunnah.


In Tahrir Square, protesters called for Shariah. But the MB didn't take up this call or expand on it or explain the concept of reintroducing Shariah as an alternative. There was NO explanation- no leadership TOWARDS ISLAM in that matter.
(And the salafi failed to do so as well). LEADERSHIP includes communicating goals and showing how they accomplish interests and common aims for all involved. MB has failed to show leadership towards an Islamic state and Islam which the common man can understand. (In America, even children are taught the US constitution and declaration of independence and how adults can support democracy).

Without a viable alternative which invokes higher moral, stronger character, and spiritual commitment, such as resuming an Islamic state, people are left with the same archaic legal system and bloated government and corrupt regime. So why not just do the practical thing and vote for your own interests?

The political calculations by the common man are discernible:
Shafik will bring in jobs and stabilize the economy.
Morsy will cause 'unknown changes' and turn away Europe and America, making Egypt poor again.

[Nikkkola]

Today, the news reports that the Paraguayan government staged a coup and ousted their president.

A few years ago, Honduras staged a coup which ousted their president too.

These two coups were bloodless.

With the right Islamic leadership, Egypt could stage a coup of SCAF bloodlessly as well.
It would require leadership however.

[NaMbessemab]

finally a good discussion.

As you all mentioned the problem lies within the masses, not just the top. Deen starts from home, then school, then workplace. Things have to be tackled from many levels. One of the best things we can do is the Islamic upbringing of our own children. So they continue to do that to the next generation. one day we will have a major part of Muslims who actually follow Islam. From among them good righteous leaders shall arise.

This is just one of the things we can do.

To add to the post above I must say that we must study Islam thoroughly especially subjects like Islamic politics, law and economics. We must than spread the word. The problem in the fact that the masses have surrendered to the system of Democracy which is Kufr. But the people are innocent they do not know the alternative system which has the benefits in it because it is the Law of Allah not some kind of man-made law like democracy. We have to propagate that only Shariah will be beneficial. This can be done by showing the masses advantages of the system as compared to democracy/monarchy and also telling them examples from the past.

[Coededgeme]

I've listened to one scholar discussing this topic. He's studied in Egypt at Azhar and he's somewhat different compared to the other scholars in Turkey. Despite being a Hanafi/Maturidi, he doesn't rush to attack those he disagrees with (like Ibn Taymiyya).

People who disagree with him make him out to label voting in a democracy as Shirk, which he doesn't say. What he does say is that if you participate in Democracy and sit in the power position, You are kind of forced into making decisions that are unislamic like endorsing Riba banks, state-run Alcoloh producers, getting taxes from prostitutes and brothel owners to pay Imams. Sitting in that position, you don't have a choice but to follow an unislamic path. This is not something the prophet Muhammad () would have done, nor is it something any of the other prophets would have done. Therefore, this path is not the one that should be taken. It's not the path of the prophets. We should be more worried about bringing about a religious generation that will one day rise up, take the reigns from this kuffar system and establish a truly Islamic form of governance.

Not sure where he stands as most of the people and scholars have sided with the "Islam will established from democracy crowd". Still it's an interesting topic.

[usatramadolusa]

I think Muslims including those of us who are not into Democracy have been infected by Propaganda, we think Democracy is as its supporters describe it. We think it is not like Dictatorship. Democracy IS Totalitarian and it is Absolutist, it only allows very few freedoms and usually only in very harmless ways which do not change the State or the way it governs. Just because the faces and the names of the people at the top changes, nothing else changes, everything else remains the same.


Absolute - a form of government where the ruler has the power to rule their land freely, with no laws or legally organized direct opposition in force.

Try saying to the State you do not want to pay the very high taxes...and you will be in jail or dead quicker than you can say 'election' or 'freedom'. You cannot object to the absolutist State.

If you disagree with the way your Democratic government is invading another country..you march in the streets or you create an alternative political party or in the most harmful way you attack by terro,r civilians who live within the State. All of these empower the State and prevent you from changing anything....this is why it is a wonderful form of government for bankers and other criminals...they can remain in power for centuries.

So how can this monster be destroyed? You work on yourself, the people around you, you form communities, you build institutions like a baitul mal (Treasuary), you appoint a leader who will govern the community, he appoints Zakaat collectors. You build halal markets where rents are not charged, you start to use gold and silver currencies and at all costs you avoid any violence or conflict with the Democratic State. As the monetary and financial system of the Democratic State starts to break up...more and more people will be drawn to the sanity of the Muslims, when chaos and the breakdown of State laws occurs, Muslims will still abide by the laws of the Shariah, we will nor murder and loot...we will be an oasis of peace and security and our markets and ways will begin to thrive.

[EliteFranceska]

check this (http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksd...-ali.html#more) and the comments if shariah ever makes it in pakistan, looks like the indians will go gung ho on pak, sad part, this piece is written by a liberal indian muslim, which is sad, indian and pak muslims should have the closest bond but now theres a nationalistic barrier may Allah remove this disease from us.

Sister I am absolutely unmotivated to read that article reason being that I too was just like that till some years ago.
My apologies and I repent from those beliefs and seek forgiveness of Allah (SWT) and I return to Him.
Apart from partition there was another mammoth tragedy that hit Indian Muslims in twentieth century and it was a mass transition to communist-Marxist ideology on part of Muslim intelligentsia. In no other language the socialist-communist movement was stronger than Urdu. So much so that intelligentsia, even now, is synonymous with the same group.
When I say Sunni Forumers Kindly Blog then on the back of my mind I have a desire that there be an alternative to the communist intelligentsia. Any way coming back to the article linked by you - I call these people Residual Communists. After we punctured the communist balloon in Afghanistan then it is no more chick to call yourself a Marxist. Now they have toned themselves down and usually are happy with the labels like secular and liberal. They are not that effective now as they used to be earlier but there presence is indeed there and if they catch you at the wrong foot they can bite viciously.

[homerdienru]

So how can this monster be destroyed? You work on yourself, the people around you, you form communities, you build institutions like a baitul mal (Treasuary), you appoint a leader who will govern the community, he appoints Zakaat collectors. You build halal markets where rents are not charged, you start to use gold and silver currencies and at all costs you avoid any violence or conflict with the Democratic State. As the monetary and financial system of the Democratic State starts to break up...more and more people will be drawn to the sanity of the Muslims, when chaos and the breakdown of State laws occurs, Muslims will still abide by the laws of the Shariah, we will nor murder and loot...we will be an oasis of peace and security and our markets and ways will begin to thrive.

This is excellent but how do we even begin when there is so much disunity and mistrust amongst Muslims. Muslims trust kafirs over Muslim organisations, how are they going to select ameers and communities to hand over their money to - how to develop trust, confidence in motivation in such radical proposals. People may hate government but they still trust it with their security especially financial. Also stuff like markets without charging rent etc. will fall foul of government laws at some stage - the government is not going to allow people to be independent of them especially where money is concerned - this is one of the reasons for the massive drives against cash in hand, so that eveything is electronic and has to go through banks.

[usatramadolusa]

[Q UOTE=Saj;782381]
This is excellent but how do we even begin when there is so much disunity and mistrust amongst Muslims. Muslims trust kafirs over Muslim organisations, how are they going to select ameers and communities to hand over their money to - how to develop trust, confidence in motivation in such radical proposals. We can start small, for example 10 people trust each other they appoint an Amir from amongst themselves. The Barakaa of following the Sunnah will bring increase insha-Allah. Some Muslims have already started doing it, they already mint the Gold Dinar and Silver Dirham, they are big in some places like Indonisia.

People may hate government but they still trust it with their security especially financial. Also stuff like markets without charging rent etc. will fall foul of government laws at some stage - the government is not going to allow people to be independent of them especially where money is concerned - this is one of the reasons for the massive drives against cash in hand, so that eveything is electronic and has to go through banks. Yes we are forced to use government issued paper money, but we can start to at least convert some of our paper into Dinar and Dirham. The markets would be small at first, let us say some Muslims get together and purchase a huge warehouse and they allow Muslims to put up stalls inside the warehouse free...so anyone can go and setup a stall...we would all benefit. The state may want to put a stop to it but we could legally fight the state using their own laws...it does not mean that we just do not do anything. Insha-Allah this will be a step towards achieving greater freedom. In America you have many non Muslim organizations doing similar things....


see:

http://oath-keepers.blogspot.co.uk/2...orders-we.html

http://www.alt-market.com/

Islamic Gold Dinar:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_gold_dinar