[UrUROFlS]

What is the percentage of muslim population who are in religious education. My guess is, it is less than 2%. Is it correct to say that we are behind others just because these 2% haven't learned science. What is happening to other 98%.

I understand your point Ahmed.

No you can not catch me on this count that you are mentioning - for others I can not speak. I do not blame the Deen establishment for travels of Ummah. I fact my inclination is the opposite though I would not like this thread to go in that direction. I talk about two streams - religious and secular education. Aim of the former was to protect Islam from oblivion and to cater to the religious requirements of Muslims. They have succeeded. Object of the secular education movement was to cater to the worldly needs of Muslims. They have survived themselves, sorry I happen to fall in that Jumrah, but they have not achieved their goal to any level of success. But this thread is not about that aspect. This thread is about wholesome education for Muslim kids.

So how the two streams of education be integrated so that a child does not feel deprived either way after going through it?

[formobilagsw]

I understand your point Ahmed.

No you can not catch me on this count that you are mentioning - for others I can not speak. I do not blame the Deen establishment for travels of Ummah. I fact my inclination is the opposite though I would not like this thread to go in that direction. I talk about two streams - religious and secular education. Aim of the former was to protect Islam from oblivion and to cater to the religious requirements of Muslims. They have succeeded. Object of the secular education movement was to cater to the worldly needs of Muslims. They have survived themselves, sorry I happen to fall in that Jumrah, but they have not achieved their goal to any level of success. But this thread is not about that aspect. This thread is about wholesome education for Muslim kids.

So how the two streams of education be integrated so that a child does not feel deprived either way after going through it?

Assalamu alaykum.

It is happening in our city. The schools of secular education (managed by islamic institutions) are offering a scientifically designed deeniyath class (an extra hour). So this extra hour for almost 12 years can help the child to learn about deen.

There are a few pious muslims who withdraw their children from the secular schools and put them in madrasah for 2 years, during this period they continue the secular education through external stream.

There a few young boys who did the Aalim course after their pre-university and rejoined the secular education. So doctors, engineers with certified Aalim graduation.

A part time (weekend) course for working men is offered by Darul uloom Nadwah. We didn't had these opportunities during our younger days.

These are a few exceptional cases.

[UrUROFlS]

Assalamu alaykum.

It is happening in our city. The schools of secular education (managed by islamic institutions) are offering a scientifically designed deeniyath class (an extra hour). So this extra hour for almost 12 years can help the child to learn about deen.

There are a few pious muslims who withdraw their children from the secular schools and put them in madrasah for 2 years, during this period they continue the secular education through external stream.

There a few young boys who did the Aalim course after their pre-university and rejoined the secular education. So doctors, engineers with certified Aalim graduation.

A part time (weekend) course for working men is offered by Darul uloom Nadwah. We didn't had these opportunities during our younger days.

These are a few exceptional cases.

These are indeed the type of things that was my target.

You see these are so disconnected. Those who wake up 150 years ago had enough time for integration.

[Thunderzee]

Sorry, can't comment on India and in North America, options are limited to Islamic schools (which have limited enrollment and discouraging internal politics - my child was denied when he was pre-k), homeschooling, and regular school supplemented by weekend courses.

Here's something out of Turkey, I believe this is in line with what you are trying to accomplish here. It gives a glimpse into changes in Turkey and what they mean to people... to me, this looks promising.

[UrUROFlS]

Sorry, can't comment on India and in North America, options are limited to Islamic schools (which have limited enrollment and discouraging internal politics - my child was denied when he was pre-k), homeschooling, and regular school supplemented by weekend courses.

Here's something out of Turkey, I believe this is in line with what you are trying to accomplish here. It gives a glimpse into changes in Turkey and what they mean to people... to me, this looks promising.

Please sister give some more info about the curriculum of these schools and why is there any talk about their closing, their comparison with Gulen approach, if any, and whether Adnan Oktar has some schooling programme.

[Thunderzee]

Prior to recent changes, this was one way imam-hatip students were able to 'specialize' in dunyevi subjects.

Alhamdulillah... recent changes seem to be indicative of the coming of a much more holistic education, at least in Turkey. Insha'Allah, over time (if not from the get-go) every aspect of it will be rooted in Islam.

[On the topic of homeschooling - from what I recall, primary education is mandatory in Turkey and homeschooling is (or was) not allowed. The only exception is/was those with medical reasons who are unable to attend a school in person are provided a state teacher who attends the student's home/hospital to provide instruction for a period of 6 months.]

[Thunderzee]

Please sister give some more info about the curriculum of these schools and why is there any talk about their closing, their comparison with Gulen approach, if any, and whether Adnan Oktar has some schooling programme.

I'm afraid we'll have to wait for others to respond as it is just as foreign to me... In the meantime, insha'Allah I will try to look into it in more depth and will post what I find here.

[Thunderzee]

As has been alluded to by other members on SF.... education seems to have become the new battlefield.

---

As I read the last few verses of surah Al-i 'Imran, I thought of education. When I looked up the tafsir, I noticed it was more about armed conflict. Allahu Akbar!

Of course, you shall be tested in your wealth and yourselves. And, of course, you shall hear much of what hurts, from those who have been given the Book before you and from those who associate (others with Allah). And if you observe patience and fear Allah, then these are among matters of determination. [186] Ma'ariful Qur'an provides the following commentary: "...This verse instructs Muslims that they should not show weakness when called to stake their wealth and life in the defence of their Faith or when they are hurt by the vituperations of the disbelievers, the polytheists and the people of the Book. All this is nothing but a trial for them. The best course for them is to observe restraint, be patient and keep to their real objective in life which is the achievement of the perfect state of Taqwa, (a state in which one fears Allah and remains answerable to Him all the time). In such a state Muslims should not worry about replying to the effrontery by antagonists."

O those who believe, be patient, be more patient than others, and guard your frontiers, and fear Allah, so that you may be successful. [200] translation from Ma'ariful Qur'an.


O yea who believe! persevere in patience and constancy: vie in such perseverance; strengthen each other; and fear Allah; that ye may prosper. [200] translation from Yusuf Ali (emphasis mine).


While Ma'ariful Qur'an provides commentary on both guarding and fighting to defend Islamic borders in armed conflict, I think this can apply to other conflicts too - the frontier of education possibly being one. Ma'ariful Qur'an provides the following special note: "In this verse, Muslims have been instructed to remain patient which is possible any time under all conditions... The second instruction given is to be more patient than others which is to be demonstrated while fighting disbelievers. The third instruction relates to a situation when an armed conflict with disbelievers is likely and there is the danger that fighting may erupt anytime. Finally comes the instruction to observe Taqwa (fear of Allah) which is the essence of everything one does and on which depends the Divine acceptance of what has been done. This set of instructions is the sum of almost all injunctions of the Shari'ah. May Almighty Allah give all of us the best of ability to act in accordance with these instructions." Ameen.

It seems quite obvious to many of us that education is a border we've failed at guarding and now we're scurrying to fight to defend it... once we reclaim our space, the objective shifts back to guarding again.

[Xcqjwarl]

Exactly my thoughts again - if you leave even a single border post vacant the enemy is sure to occupy it.

And for others I would like to assert that the thread is about integration of religious and and secular education into one wholesome education in which religious education separates only at the level of higher specialization and the Mullah is not looked down upon. The other crucial desire is that the person who opts for specialization in secular sciences does not turn out to be supra-religion.

Shaykh Maripat can you kindly watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YNCQ...eature=related after 29:00 as it is very much relevant to the talk going on. Kindly expound on the status of Nadwat Ul Ulama in the context of the wholesome education of Muslims.

[Xcqjwarl]

Assalamu alaykum


Assalamu alaykum

Doctor sahib. The worst tragedy of ummah is that it has consumed sedatives of living in (selfish) luxuries offered by the west. So that the west can sell their products to them. And then blackmail the ummah of withdrawing their products.

Walaikum as sallam.

There is truth in your assertion brother Ahmad but why not to be so much self sufficient in science and technology that we can provide the Muslims with the optimum amount of material sources ourselves so that west can not put us into any slot for blackmailing?

[formobilagsw]

Assalamu alaykum

There is truth in your assertion brother Ahmad but why not to be so much self sufficient in science and technology that we can provide the Muslims with the optimum amount of material sources ourselves so that west can not put us into any slot for blackmailing? The reason behind is that we seize to be ummah (a single human body). Whatever technological developments we may have are used for targeting our own brothers. We don't share technology with our own brothers. Everywhere "re-invent the wheel" theory exists. Look at the west, they work as a single community (they may not boast of it), but internally they share their best technology among themselves. Look at Australia (farthest and an isolated country), it has all the technology available in the west.

[Thunderzee]

More about imam-hatip schools and Islamic education Turkey:

Turkish imam hatip schools serve as a model for other countries like Russia and Pakistan.

An article on a new bill passed to incorporate optional Qur'anic studies in Turkish schools. Doesn't go far enough. [The political landscape of Turkey is a hot mess].

This source offers a glimpse into curriculum at imam hatip schools in Turkey (report dated 2010):

The Syllabuses of Vocational Courses in Imam Hatip High Schools

Arabic Language Course - as one of the vocational courses in Imam-Hatip High Schools -
has been re-developed with a student-oriented and active learning based approach,
approved by The Board of Education and applied as from 2007-2008 school year. The
textbooks, workbooks and guide books for teachers that are in accordance with the given
syllabus have been used since then. Furthermore, vocalization CDs of textbooks have been
produced to make students pronounce the texts better.

The syllabuses of the other vocational courses such as Reciting The Holy Quran, Basic
Religious Knowledge, Hadith, Kalam, Fiqh, Interpretation of Quran, The History of Islam,
Comparative History of Religions, Rhetoric and Vocational Practice Course have been
redeveloped and put into practice, too. The study on elaborating the textbooks parallel to the
syllabus have been completed. Much more detailed information is available from the Ministry of National Education. (To view this long, official document: copy/paste MINISTRY OF NATIONAL EDUCATION. GENERAL DIRECTORATE OF RELIGIOUS EDUCATION. THE CURRICULUM OF IMAM-HATIP HIGH SCHOOL.. into your search engine and click on the result from dogm.meb.gov.tr...)

[UrUROFlS]

Prior to recent changes, this was one way imam-hatip students were able to 'specialize' in dunyevi subjects.

Alhamdulillah... recent changes seem to be indicative of the coming of a much more holistic education, at least in Turkey. Insha'Allah, over time (if not from the get-go) every aspect of it will be rooted in Islam.

[On the topic of homeschooling - from what I recall, primary education is mandatory in Turkey and homeschooling is (or was) not allowed. The only exception is/was those with medical reasons who are unable to attend a school in person are provided a state teacher who attends the student's home/hospital to provide instruction for a period of 6 months.]

There is some very relevant and important info there.
I will very earnestly request you to capsulize that into four or five points.
This is work but reward from Allah (SWT) can not be imagined by us in this world.

@Ahmed Shareef and Dr Atif
I have a point related to your exchange.
We Muslims should have some sort of programme to benefit from our own science and technology expertize. My impression is that our own manpower has got lots of expertize and very little motivation/inclination to impart benefit to Ummah by their abilities and zero confidence to do that. Your comments?

PS: I'll watch the video now, IA.

[UrUROFlS]

Shaykh Maripat can you kindly watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YNCQ...eature=related after 29:00 as it is very much relevant to the talk going on. Kindly expound on the status of Nadwat Ul Ulama in the context of the wholesome education of Muslims.

I was at about 15 minutes when I decided that I should prepare a transcript.
Two Circles Network had their own report on this.
Kindly supplicate for transcript.

[Thunderzee]

[I'd like to share some thoughts here (just thoughts, nothing more): mowing the same education landscape does not allow us to discover anything outside of its borders; we mow the same grass as everyone else and only those who have put themselves in positions of 'privilege' (and we continue to support their positions) get to mow at the borders - making discoveries the rest of us are not able to. The way out may not be to emulate or even to take over the landscape but to leave it altogether and search that seemingly infertile (yet incredibly fertile and full of Allah's (SWT) bounty) ground we were either taken from forcefully or we abandoned believing the grass to be greener on the other side. I believe homeschooling and more specifically unschooling may hold a key here... though it still privileges some over others since it is not something that is available even where it once was.]

[Perhaps the lesson here to focus on is the seemingly infertile ground blessed with our beloved Muhammad , where Islam first flourished.]

[Thunderzee]

I'm just discovering WONDER and from what I've learned thus far, I see it as a wonderful example of that last verse of surah Al'i 'Imran where Allah (SWT) says:

O yea who believe! persevere in patience and constancy: vie in such perseverance; strengthen each other; and fear Allah; that ye may prosper. [200] translation from Yusuf Ali (emphasis added).


MASHA'ALLAH I see patience, I see perseverance, I see Muslim strengthening Muslim - brothers and sisters reaching out to other brothers and sisters - patiently, within the limits that have been imposed on them by politicians. MASHA'ALLAH I see a border-less Islam. MASHA'ALLAH I see brothers and sisters who put their trust in Allah (SWT) and do not turn their backs on their brothers and sisters, their country of origin, despite ill treatment or despite injustice based on their Islamic education and practices.

No doubt WONDER is linked with other groups and organizations and they note some of these links on their website (sorry, couldn't find English translation). And this further demonstrates brotherliness rather than competition. Masha'Allah!

So, unlike most others that seem to be in competition to re-invent the wheel as brother ahamed_sharif notes (and I agree), WONDER and others are not in competition to do so... rather, they take what others have already done and expand on it, enveloping more and more of the ummah as the movement progresses. Subhan'Allah!

[formobilagsw]

There is some very relevant and important info there.
I will very earnestly request you to capsulize that into four or five points.
This is work but reward from Allah (SWT) can not be imagined by us in this world.

@Ahmed Shareef and Dr Atif
I have a point related to your exchange.
We Muslims should have some sort of programme to benefit from our own science and technology expertize. My impression is that our own manpower has got lots of expertize and very little motivation/inclination to impart benefit to Ummah by their abilities and zero confidence to do that. Your comments?

PS: I'll watch the video now, IA.

Assalamu alaykum.

As a person one cannot share his expertise to others because it is the property of parent organisation or a country. But why not country to country.

Take the example of Bangladesh and Pakistan. They were together as one country for decades. But see the developments in Bangladesh. The Bangladeshis are intelligent. One can read many papers (intellectual) presented in science forums by Bangladeshis. But where is Bangladesh now.