[Cucoulkrory]

are you not aware of what he says about the sahaba in tafheem?
how do you expect laymen to sift the good from the bad in tafheem?

I am aware about what is said to be in tafhim, but if you actually take a look, those quotations are not there. Now some people say they were expurgated, but where is the proof in that?

[Ettiominiw]

maududi's slander against the sahabah: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...r-reading-this

ahem.

[Cucoulkrory]

ahem.

I guess you might be a little (actually more than a little) deficient in English. I said in Tafhim--that's not from there.

[Ettiominiw]

I guess you might be a little (actually more than a little) deficient in English. I said in Tafhim--that's not from there.

But that thread shows maududis attitude towards the sahaba.

I don't think the viewpoints of four scholars holds much weight against the numerous Deobandi scholars who severely criticised Mawdudi, many of them labelling him and his followers as misguided:

1) Shaykhul Islam Husain Ahmad Madani 2) Shaykh al-Tafsir Ahmad Ali Lahori 3) Shaykhul Hadith Mawlana Zakariyya Kandhalwi 4) Mawlana Yusuf Binnori 5) Mawlana Zafar Ahmad Uthmani 6) Mufi Muhammad Shafi 7) Mufti Kifayatullah Dehlawi 8) Mawlana Qari Muhammad Tayyib 9) Mufti Sayyed Mahdi Hassan 10) Mufti Muhammad Hasan Gangohi 11) Mawlana Manzoor Numani 12) Mawlana Abul Hasan Ali Nadwi 13) Mufti Rasheed Ahmad Ludhianwi 14) Mawlana Yusuf Ludhianwi 15) Shaykhul Hadith Mawlana Muhammad Ishaq 16) Mawlana Hakeem Akhtar Sahib 17) Mufti Mahmood (Pakistan). May Allah have mercy on all of them.

This is food for thought...

[myspacecoo]

I am aware about what is said to be in tafhim, but if you actually take a look, those quotations are not there. Now some people say they were expurgated, but where is the proof in that?

the old version of the tafheem that were available during the days when the ulema of deoband split from JI.

[FourEsters]

All,

The thread is about Jamaat-e-Islami and not Maulana Maududi (RA) and to be honest I CANNOT stomach most of things Maulana (RA) wrote and his way of writing.

However, in Pakistan if people have the choice to vote for a Secular/Modernist candidate vs someone from Jamaat-e-Islami its a clear choice.

[myspacecoo]

All,

The thread is about Jamaat-e-Islami and not Maulana Maududi (RA) and to be honest I CANNOT stomach most of things Maulana (RA) wrote and his way of writing.

However, in Pakistan if people have the choice to vote for a Secular/Modernist candidate vs someone from Jamaat-e-Islami its a clear choice.

the brother below claims the things said by maududi sahab in tafheem are not true. you may have to add something regarding that.

also my original question remains: what are the political aims of the JI? are they islamic? should muslims vote for them w/o consideration of other parties or should they vote because they are less bad than others?

[FourEsters]

the brother below claims the things said by maududi sahab in tafheem are not true. you may have to add something regarding that.

also my original question remains: what are the political aims of the JI? are they islamic? should muslims vote for them w/o consideration of other parties or should they vote because they are less bad than others?

This is my opinion whichvast majority of people may disagree with and that's fine.

1. Democracy is UTTER and ABSOLUTE trash
2. The system of Governence in Islam is Khilafah
3. Islam CANNOT be implemented with Democracy & Voting
4. Jamaat-e-Islami made a mounmental error by abandoning their original stance and got lost in the maze which is Pakistani-Politics

[myspacecoo]

This is my opinion whichvast majority of people may disagree with and that's fine.

1. Democracy is UTTER and ABSOLUTE trash
2. The system of Governence in Islam is Khilafah
3. Islam CANNOT be implemented with Democracy & Voting
4. Jamaat-e-Islami made a mounmental error by abandoning their original stance and got lost in the maze which is Pakistani-Politics

Jazak Allah.
i see i have some reading to do. will do so in sha Allah.

[maks_holi]

This is my opinion whichvast majority of people may disagree with and that's fine.

1. Democracy is UTTER and ABSOLUTE trash
2. The system of Governence in Islam is Khilafah
3. Islam CANNOT be implemented with Democracy & Voting
4. Jamaat-e-Islami made a mounmental error by abandoning their original stance and got lost in the maze which is Pakistani-Politics

I think everyone here agrees to all of your four points, but what is the way forward in the current predicament, looks like even if we do rally our support for the JI, we'll have the same problem we had during the nizam e mustafa movement when all religious parties couldnt decide who's way to follow, and we still have the problem.

[myspacecoo]

I think everyone here agrees to all of your four points, but what is the way forward in the current predicament, looks like even if we do rally our support for the JI, we'll have the same problem we had during the nizam e mustafa movement when all religious parties couldnt decide who's way to follow, and we still have the problem.

i think there was a small agreement signed by prominent ulema from all sects that gave a very good working model for islamic governance. i dont remember the finer details or the year but it was in pakistan and went something like this:
- a nationwide poll would be held to determine which sect was in majority. the answer would obv be hanafi so hanafi madhab would be adopted. but the minor sects wont be suppressed and given freedom according to hanafi madhab. political freedom i.e
- in education the sects will have their own education system for religious education.
- arabic will be official language alongside urdu (something to that effect i dont remb).
- when a solution for the state's problem is required is to be found ijtehad will be made if necessary, out of the madhab as well.
- food,cloth, house and security will be top priorities.

its like the system of govt in iran. shia majority, shia govt. so in pakistan hanafi majority hanafi govt.

[FourEsters]

I think everyone here agrees to all of your four points, but what is the way forward in the current predicament, looks like even if we do rally our support for the JI, we'll have the same problem we had during the nizam e mustafa movement when all religious parties couldnt decide who's way to follow, and we still have the problem.

Consensus vs Authority?

The Democratic model as you well know works on Governance by consensus while Islam works on application by Authority.

All religious parties (working together which is rare) coming to power in a democratic system will end up in the same affair as the Nizam-e-Mustafa fiasco that the give and take (consensus) building will end up in a disaster. What is needed is an Ameer off course who simply implements the Shariah and doesn’t have to worry about consensus.

The political parties (even religious ones) are all these (just colours are different):


The way to go is what happened in Afghanistan i.e. Khilafah arrived out of the blue and this is also the destiny of Pakistan, it will breakup and join in Khilafah.

In whichever scenario you play out for Pakistan, its destiny is with Khilafah, Insha’Allah.

[rujeltaoser]

Yes they are aware of the maududi fitnah, but they don't what why or how, they just hear it and repeat it. All I know is that we should stay away from maududis work, but why, no clue just like countless others. Why not take the good and leave the rest?

before reading the moudodi books.. i was one of the big fan of JI... no doubt some of thm r v sincere ppl nd really want to do somethng for the betterment of the country .. but how can i ignore the fact tht jamat ideology is based on the moudodeat.. they claim tht thy wanna bring islamic revolution in our country .. my question is ..wht kind of islamic revolution..a moudodiat revolution? nd if its an islamic revolution thn first of all they shud take a clear stance against moudodi..

[Cucoulkrory]

the old version of the tafheem that were available during the days when the ulema of deoband split from JI.

I have heard this numerous times, but where is the evidence? Does anyone have the old tafhim? Do you? And if you do, pray upload scans of those quotes so that everyone may see.

Even if they were expurgated, then that's fine, because that means tafhim is fine now, so why prevent people of reading the current editions? Like I said, leave the bad, take the good, and you are saying that JI already removed the bad.

[NaMbessemab]

Consensus vs Authority?

The Democratic model as you well know works on Governance by consensus while Islam works on application by Authority.

All religious parties (working together which is rare) coming to power in a democratic system will end up in the same affair as the Nizam-e-Mustafa fiasco that the give and take (consensus) building will end up in a disaster. What is needed is an Ameer off course who simply implements the Shariah and doesn’t have to worry about consensus.

The political parties (even religious ones) are all these (just colours are different):


The way to go is what happened in Afghanistan i.e. Khilafah arrived out of the blue and this is also the destiny of Pakistan, it will breakup and join in Khilafah.

In whichever scenario you play out for Pakistan, its destiny is with Khilafah, Insha’Allah.

All these Jamaat whether they be religious, secular or moderate, they are all strengthening the system of kufr i.e Democracy against Shariah and most of them are also against any movement which strives to implement shariah. These Jamaat become more dangerous when they vote in the favor of resumption of NATO supplies to Afghanistan, military operations in SWA and NWA and bills like Huqooq e Niswaan.

Ironically, if you look back in the history of Pakistan you'll find that these so called 'religious' parties are more harmful then secular or moderate ones. We have instances in history of the separation of east pakistan where Jamaat e Islami played a role in divisions and in the latest past we have instances of the 17th amendment in which the very Jamaat e Islami helped pass the bill.

[NaMbessemab]

I think everyone here agrees to all of your four points, but what is the way forward in the current predicament, looks like even if we do rally our support for the JI, we'll have the same problem we had during the nizam e mustafa movement when all religious parties couldnt decide who's way to follow, and we still have the problem.

The only way to move forward is 'Khurooj' against the Government i.e take the government down just as Hazrat Hussain R.A did against Yazid or just as Hazrat Zaid bin Ali ru did against Mansur Abbasi in the times of Imam Abu Hanifa and was funded and supported by the Imam by his famous fatwa. Mind it these examples are for Fasiq rulers who lost their right to rule in accordance with Shariah. In our times rulers are openly helping the kuffaar which render them Kafir. And this is a consensus among jurists that a Kafir can not rule Muslims.

The system is either Kufr or Islam. If its not Islam, its kufr, which will have to be replaced by means told (or left as actions) by the Sahaba Rz.A, Salaf sualiheen and the Khalaf.

Rallies, strikes and boycotts won't help (which is what JI does). They will have to topple this government as is stated by Ulema of this time (although this is not openly told to awaam un naas!).

Edit: You will not find rallies, strikes and boycott in the times of the Sahaba and the Salaf sualiheen, I wonder where these came from!

[myspacecoo]

I have heard this numerous times, but where is the evidence? Does anyone have the old tafhim? Do you? And if you do, pray upload scans of those quotes so that everyone may see.

Even if they were expurgated, then that's fine, because that means tafhim is fine now, so why prevent people of reading the current editions? Like I said, leave the bad, take the good, and you are saying that JI already removed the bad.

so the ulema who pointed out the errors in tafhim were lying?you are accusing the entire deoband of lying because they stood unanimous in their decision against maududi sahab.
and new tafhim isnt fine there is still material against the sahaba written in it which is harmful to anyone's imaan. so now i am not saying that they removed the 'bad'. editing few lines does not change the whole vein in which it was written.

[Zebrabitch]

The only way to move forward is 'Khurooj' against the Government i.e take the government down just as Hazrat Hussain R.A did against Yazid or just as Hazrat Zaid bin Ali ru did against Mansur Abbasi in the times of Imam Abu Hanifa and was funded and supported by the Imam by his famous fatwa. Mind it these examples are for Fasiq rulers who lost their right to rule in accordance with Shariah. In our times rulers are openly helping the kuffaar which render them Kafir. And this is a consensus among jurists that a Kafir can not rule Muslims.

The system is either Kufr or Islam. If its not Islam, its kufr, which will have to be replaced by means told (or left as actions) by the Sahaba Rz.A, Salaf sualiheen and the Khalaf.

Rallies, strikes and boycotts won't help (which is what JI does). They will have to topple this government as is stated by Ulema of this time (although this is not openly told to awaam un naas!).

Edit: You will not find rallies, strikes and boycott in the times of the Sahaba and the Salaf sualiheen, I wonder where these came from!

Being a caliph or using the support of one to attack another evil one is different from some few individuals grouping together and raising slogans and self proclaiming authority.

[NewYorkDoctorD]

What I see nowadays is JI loosing its identity. There was a time when JI was identified with political thought but now they have been hijacked by Ahle Hadith. Come to Hyderabad , you will find most JI members not harboring the khilafa ideology. The senior members whom I call uncles can still be seen with a copy of tafheem here and there but the youth has been engulfed in the fitnah of Ahle Hadees. There was a time when SIO was a place where students used to flock now it is nothing more than just another group. One of the main reason for this is their apparent negligence for sunnah.

As Hazratji RA said " Be deeni ke raaston se deen nahin aata "

[FourEsters]

What I see nowadays is JI loosing its identity. There was a time when JI was identified with political thought but now they have been hijacked by Ahle Hadith. Come to Hyderabad , you will find most JI members not harboring the khilafa ideology. The senior members whom I call uncles can still be seen with a copy of tafheem here and there but the youth has been engulfed in the fitnah of Ahle Hadees. There was a time when SIO was a place where students used to flock now it is nothing more than just another group. One of the main reason for this is their apparent negligence for sunnah.

As Hazratji RA said " Be deeni ke raaston se deen nahin aata "

100% agreed most of the Jamaat-e-Islami guys are now Ahl-e-Hadeeth and not much emphasis on Khilafah etc. more into being politically savvy.