[ffdfriendforurr]

What about Shaykh Uthaymeen saying Imam Nawawi erred in his aqeedah. There is recording of it in youtube with subtitles. I cant find it out right now. I mean if people start saying Imam Nawawi erred in his aqeedah, then who are the people of haqq... ya akhi?

Not to mention Shaykh Albani...


Edit: Bro, I was a salafi for sometime, but I couldn't take it. I mean labeling so many great ulemas as deviants... I just couldn't take it.

According to Zahid al-Kawthari al-Ash'ari, not only did nearly every direct student of Imam Ahmad err in his aqeedah, but some of them (in particular, his son, Abdullah bin Ahmad bin Hanbal ) were labeled patrons of shirk and wathaniyya (statue-worship).

In addition, Ibn Qudama was a mujassim, Ibn Khuzayma (one of the great early shafi'is), Ibn Abi Hatim, ad-Daraqutni, Imam al-Lailaka'i, al-Khatib al-Baghdadi, al-Humaydi, Abu Bakr al-Khallal (the pivot and codifier of the Hanbali mad'hab)...

The list goes on.

Suffice it to say that this trait you dislike is certainly not exclusive to Salafis.

[Nadin Maison]

According to Zahid al-Kawthari al-Ash'ari, not only did nearly every direct student of Imam Ahmad err in his aqeedah, but some of them (in particular, his son, Abdullah bin Ahmad bin Hanbal ) were labeled patrons of shirk and wathaniyya (statue-worship).

In addition, Ibn Qudama was a mujassim, Ibn Khuzayma (one of the great early shafi'is), Ibn Abi Hatim, ad-Daraqutni, Imam al-Lailaka'i, al-Khatib al-Baghdadi, al-Humaydi, Abu Bakr al-Khallal (the pivot and codifier of the Hanbali mad'hab)...

The list goes on.

Suffice it to say that this trait you dislike is certainly not exclusive to Salafis.

Bring unambiguous direct evidence for your accusasations against Imam al Kawthari.

[qzgCVHex]

According to Zahid al-Kawthari al-Ash'ari, not only did nearly every direct student of Imam Ahmad err in his aqeedah, but some of them (in particular, his son, Abdullah bin Ahmad bin Hanbal ) were labeled patrons of shirk and wathaniyya (statue-worship).

In addition, Ibn Qudama was a mujassim, Ibn Khuzayma (one of the great early shafi'is), Ibn Abi Hatim, ad-Daraqutni, Imam al-Lailaka'i, al-Khatib al-Baghdadi, al-Humaydi, Abu Bakr al-Khallal (the pivot and codifier of the Hanbali mad'hab)...

The list goes on.

Suffice it to say that this trait you dislike is certainly not exclusive to Salafis.

talk about now.
what do asharis call atharis?
what do atharis call asharis?

read this:
second last para

[ffdfriendforurr]

talk about now.
what do asharis call atharis?
what do atharis call asharis?

read this:
second last para

This is Mufti Taqi's personal opinion and it does not reflect the opinion of numerous Ash'aris of today, such as Zahid al-Kawthari, who was the person I was referring to, and who is called 'Allama' by many despite his takfeer of the great scholars of the past.

Bring unambiguous direct evidence for your accusasations against Imam al Kawthari. Can you read Arabic?

Read his Maqalat, pages 251-252 for the accusation of Wathaniyya against Imam Abdullah bin Ahmad bin Hanbal. The passage is very unambiguous. The rest of the quotes are referenced excellently in the index of Shams al-Afghani's book on the Maturidis.

[Futfwrca]

great ulema of the past differed in aqeedah and considered each other incorrect on the issues.

Atharis, partiuclarly from the hanaabilah would obviously oppose the ashaairah. As imam nawawi had some ashari leanings then of course ibn uthaymeen would object to this. He's still praised as a great alim though amongst salafis which highlights my point

if you guys dont want unity then may Allah accept it on the yawmil qiyaama from you. Nothin else to say

[qzgCVHex]

if you guys dont want unity then may Allah accept it on the yawmil qiyaama from you. Nothin else to say

why did you say 'shafi madhab is wrong' in your previous post in this thread?
poor level of tolerance for someone advocating unity. get your own act straight, then lecture us.

[qzgCVHex]

This is Mufti Taqi's personal opinion and it does not reflect the opinion of numerous Ash'aris of today, such as Zahid al-Kawthari, who was the person I was referring to, and who is called 'Allama' by many despite his takfeer of the great scholars of the past.



Can you read Arabic?

Read his Maqalat, pages 251-252 for the accusation of Wathaniyya against Imam Abdullah bin Ahmad bin Hanbal. The passage is very unambiguous. The rest of the quotes are referenced excellently in the index of Shams al-Afghani's book on the Maturidis.

then why dont you discredit zahid-al kawthari's opinion as personal as well?
and which asharis today hold the view that atharis are deviated?this is the precise word.

[Clarissa]

Originally Posted by amr123 What about Shaykh Uthaymeen saying Imam Nawawi erred in his aqeedah. There is recording of it in youtube with subtitles. I cant find it out right now. I mean if people start saying Imam Nawawi erred in his aqeedah, then who are the people of haqq... ya akhi?

Not to mention Shaykh Albani...


Edit: Bro, I was a salafi for sometime, but I couldn't take it. I mean labeling so many great ulemas as deviants... I just couldn't take it.

According to Zahid al-Kawthari al-Ash'ari, not only did nearly every direct student of Imam Ahmad err in his aqeedah, but some of them (in particular, his son, Abdullah bin Ahmad bin Hanbal ) were labeled patrons of shirk and wathaniyya (statue-worship).

In addition, Ibn Qudama was a mujassim, Ibn Khuzayma (one of the great early shafi'is), Ibn Abi Hatim, ad-Daraqutni, Imam al-Lailaka'i, al-Khatib al-Baghdadi, al-Humaydi, Abu Bakr al-Khallal (the pivot and codifier of the Hanbali mad'hab)...

The list goes on.

Suffice it to say that this trait you dislike is certainly not exclusive to Salafis.

The Prophet sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam said:
“I advise you to have taqwâ of Allâh and to hear and to obey, even if an Abyssinian slave becomes your leader. Those of you who live long after me will see a lot of differences, so hold fast to my Sunnah and to the Sunnah of the Rightly-Guided Khalîfahs after me. Cling to it tightly and beware of newly-invented matters, for every newly invented matter is an innovation, and every innovation is misguidance, and all misguidance is in the Fire. Abû Dâwûd (no.4607), at-Tirmidhî (no.2676)

So we are not oblige to follow "a 7th century" scholar if any differences occur, esp. Hanafis , b/c Imam Abu Hanifah r.a was not "Shaf'e", Ashari or Maturidi

[Futfwrca]

why did you say 'shafi madhab is wrong' in your previous post in this thread?
poor level of tolerance for someone advocating unity. get your own act straight, then lecture us.

that was in a different discussion concerning forced marriages akh. im not going to accept forced marriages are ok regardless of what madhab said it

[Futfwrca]

According to Zahid al-Kawthari al-Ash'ari, not only did nearly every direct student of Imam Ahmad err in his aqeedah, but some of them (in particular, his son, Abdullah bin Ahmad bin Hanbal ) were labeled patrons of shirk and wathaniyya (statue-worship).

In addition, Ibn Qudama was a mujassim, Ibn Khuzayma (one of the great early shafi'is), Ibn Abi Hatim, ad-Daraqutni, Imam al-Lailaka'i, al-Khatib al-Baghdadi, al-Humaydi, Abu Bakr al-Khallal (the pivot and codifier of the Hanbali mad'hab)...

The list goes on.

Suffice it to say that this trait you dislike is certainly not exclusive to Salafis.

jazak allahu khair akh

our ulema HAVE differed in aqeedah, thats a sad fact that we have to accept.

Yet when teh haddadis burnt imam nawawis books, the salafis severely refuted them, and continue to study and memorise teh books of imam an nawawi to this day, and otehr ashari leaning ulema like ibn hajr, ibn hazm etc.

We have many great ulema from ashari and athari schools of thought, ibn taimiyyah during teh attack of teh mongols, fought jihad and incited the peopel of sham to fight, he didnt waste time refuting them for disagreements, yet we are now in a worse position than the ummah of taht time, and we are being battered worse than we were by the mongols, so perhaps now isnt a good time for salafi deobandi polemics?

[ffdfriendforurr]

then why dont you discredit zahid-al kawthari's opinion as personal as well?
and which asharis today hold the view that atharis are deviated?this is the precise word.

Probably most of them. By far the vast majority in the Arab world do. This is reflected by, say, Mufti Abdur-Rahman ibn Yusuf, who called Ibn Taymiyyah a 'Crypto-anthropomorphist' in one of his lectures, Mufti ibn Adam al-Kawthari's lectures, and of course GF Haddad's tirades. As for the rest of Deoband, I cannot say, because there does not seem to be one unified opinion amongst them, as evinced by the stance of Mufti Usmani.

We have many great ulema from ashari and athari schools of thought, ibn taimiyyah during teh attack of teh mongols, fought jihad and incited the peopel of sham to fight, he didnt waste time refuting them for disagreements, yet we are now in a worse position than the ummah of taht time, and we are being battered worse than we were by the mongols, so perhaps now isnt a good time for salafi deobandi polemics? Yes, that is true, there are many great ulema from the Ash'aris, like al-Izz bin Abdus-Salam and his likes.

The point of my post was to ensure that everyone was aware that the trait amr123 objects to is not exclusive to one group of people. Now that such a job is done, I am done myself.

[qzgCVHex]

that was in a different discussion concerning forced marriages akh. im not going to accept forced marriages are ok regardless of what madhab said it

dont accept thats fine. just dont expect us to believe your chants of unity again. it is the entire salafi usool that preaches extremism that is what we oppose. and you gave a very clear example of it when you blandly said 'shafi madhab is wrong'. who are you? do you know more than imam nawwawi?

[qzgCVHex]

Probably most of them. By far the vast majority in the Arab world do. This is reflected by, say, Mufti Abdur-Rahman ibn Yusuf, who called Ibn Taymiyyah a 'Crypto-anthropomorphist' in one of his lectures, Mufti ibn Adam al-Kawthari's lectures, and of course GF Haddad's tirades. As for the rest of Deoband, I cannot say, because there does not seem to be one unified opinion amongst them, as evinced by the stance of Mufti Usmani.



Yes, that is true, there are many great ulema from the Ash'aris, like al-Izz bin Abdus-Salam and his likes.

The point of my post was to ensure that everyone was aware that the trait amr123 objects to is not exclusive to one group of people. Now that such a job is done, I am done myself.

well most of us on this forum stick to the opinion of deoband - and primarily as of right now that is of mufti taqi - the most popular i.e...and so most of us have realized that to call atharis deviants is wrong. yes we do discuss the differences but realizing these are just semantics.

but have the atharis done that? does the salafi movement that has become athari consider anyone besides them correct? does their extreme usool allow such tolerance? thats the golden question. anyone having an account at salafichat can confirm this.

[Futfwrca]

dont accept thats fine. just dont expect us to believe your chants of unity again. it is the entire salafi usool that preaches extremism that is what we oppose. and you gave a very clear example of it when you blandly said 'shafi madhab is wrong'. who are you? do you know more than imam nawwawi?

did imam nawawi hold the oppinion that you can force your daughter to marry someone she doesnt want to marry?

So because I said that IF the shaafi madhab says you can force women into marriage the the shaafi madhab is wrong, taht means i dont want unity with people? Thats stupid bro

[FateHostera]

'GF Haddad's tirades'

Salam

Have you got quotes for the above?

[ffdfriendforurr]

'GF Haddad's tirades'

Salam

Have you got quotes for the above?

Are you asking me for quotes to prove that GF Haddad considers Ibn Taymiyya and those who follow his 'aqidah to be anthropomorphists?

...just read anything he's ever written on the subject!

It's quite similar to asking me for quotes to prove that the Prophet is from Quraish.

[FateHostera]

Are you asking me for quotes to prove that GF Haddad considers Ibn Taymiyya and those who follow his 'aqidah to be anthropomorphists?

...just read anything he's ever written on the subject!

It's quite similar to asking me for quotes to prove that the Prophet is from Quraish.

What made me ask u a question? Read what u said, that's what made me ask the question, can u give me the quote to MY queston (not your above question). Also, in my 1st comment i gave u a quote so that we can stick to the topic.

As for your above reply i know About GF Haddad, i purchased his transalation of ibn jahbal R

[FateHostera]

...

Salam

Try livingislam.org

Sunnah.org
Qibla.com
Riyadhal Haq
Zamzam academy
Peopleofsunnah.com
Croydonmosque
Youtube - hanafifiqh

[qzgCVHex]

did imam nawawi hold the oppinion that you can force your daughter to marry someone she doesnt want to marry?

So because I said that IF the shaafi madhab says you can force women into marriage the the shaafi madhab is wrong, taht means i dont want unity with people? Thats stupid bro

the shafi madhab does say that marriage can be forced under some conditions. i criticized your (and your brethren's) arrogance and your illusion that you can go about disproving (or proving right) rulings of a madhab based on your and your brethren's (uneducated) approach towards deriving fiqh from Qur'an and Sunnah.
this is also very intolerant, for a layman.
as for unity. would you unite with a shia who comes and abuses the ummahat ul momineen and then says ok im done, lets unite. im not comparing you with a shia it is just that an ideology based on extremist intolerance cannot be accepted by those approached for unity. if a hanafi goes to a shafi'i and says we should get united despite our differences, there won't be any rejection. yet many hanafi rulings collide with shafi'i rulings.

the problem is with you. the muqallids are all united. you consider us blind followers, pass racist remarks for the people in indo-pak, think we consider the ulema infallible and you have the audacity to ask for unity? when was the last time you saw a muqallid fighting with a muqallid of another madhab on this forum? on the rare occasion that has happened it was resolved peacefully in a short time.

if you are honest about unity learn one fiqh in its entirety and become muqallid of it. this will wash away your uneducated intolerance. and allow your mind to accept muqallids can also be right and most of the time they are right.

May Allah bless you too.

[ffdfriendforurr]

What made me ask u a question? Read what u said, that's what made me ask the question, can u give me the quote to MY queston (not your above question). Also, in my 1st comment i gave u a quote so that we can stick to the topic.

As for your above reply i know About GF Haddad, i purchased his transalation of ibn jahbal R

Ok, so here's the background information.

I was saying: Many Ash'aris say that Atharis (By which I mean Imam Ahmad's aqeedah as explained by all the Hanbalis from Abu Bakr al-Khallal to Ibn Taymiyyah) are anthropomorphists and I gave the example of GF Haddad by referring to his 'tirades,' which has a meaning like criticisms, of the above-mentioned aqeedah.

You then said: 'have you got quotes for the above,' which I took to mean that: you wanted quotes to prove that GF Haddad has written tirades against the Hanbali aqeedah.

I said: 'Read anything he's ever written on the subject,' meaning, the subject of Ibn Taymiyyah.

Then you said the above.

As I said, just read his biography of Ibn Taymiyyah. He just barely stops short of takfir.