[pavilionnotebook]

With regards to maulana mahmood madni's comments....He was saying that the indian muslims do not need pakistan's help. Also that terrorism is 1 way.i.e from pakistan and also his viewpoint the majority of hindus respect muslims. I cannot agree with the respected shaykh on these points. I am from the state of Gujrat. There is immense hatred and discrimination against muslims. In every aspect of life. I have previously posted statistics of how much % of muslims have jobs in the public sector. There is so much discrimination. This itself breeds extremism. The actions of modi made him a target.....etc etc....Muslims are changing their names to hindu names in certain places etc etc. By the way have things cooled down between maulana mahmood madni and his respected uncle maulana arshad madni.

With regards deobandi islam in india and pakistan well there is an obvious difference. The deobandi islam in pakistan is more vocal due to freedom etc. In India the ulema are more scared etc....This is a fact....

Where does Moulana Mahmood Madani make these comments ? I would be interested to hear it directly from his mouth if you have a link, because as we see earlier in the thread, sometimes statements are wrongly attributed. At the moment, I can't really see him making comments like the ones mentioned. Please provide a video/audio link if possible.

[Matajic]

bro the education factor is due to the fact that it is very difficult to get into university in the first place. The laws etc mean nothing...it's all fake. There is a whole system in place. Muslims are not given their places in good universities even though they deserve it. All the ant-discrimination legislation will do nothing for most muslims. With regards to north/south divide...then I don't know the reasons. Education has little do with anything. Actually the muslims of gujrat are very wealthy and contribute greatly to the economy. However the mushriks dont care.

With regards to sri lanka it's a completely different ball game. It has nothing to do with the muslim contribution to society....Sri lankans are generally more tolerent. Even in the UK the sri lankans I have met usually don't have major issues with muslims. Also sri lankan muslims are strong due to tableegh...mashallah

[Matajic]

With regards to those comments...the 3 points that the indian muslims do not need pakistan's help. Also that terrorism is 1 way.i.e from pakistan and also his viewpoint the majority of hindus respect muslims. I think he put the figure at 70% or maybe 90% can't remember exactly but it was a very high figure. All these facts are clearly in his response to Musharraf. As aapa you are familiar with the madani family please clarify these issues. Once the father of maulana mahmood mentioned something infront of my father and my father clarified it with him (Hadhrat Maulana Asad madni rh). If I mention it here it would cause a storm....however the fact is that it seems indian muslims are using some sort of diplomacy...and at times making ambigous statements so as not to alienate the majority hindu population.

[Wachearex]

It is implied in a lot of his speeches that terrorism is coming from Pakistan side, and that it certainly is NOT home grown. Indian muslims are not a threat and fully stand behind the saftey of the Indian population; the threat is from external factors. His attempt is to bridge gaps and reduce any tension between Muslims and Hindus, but he is clear in his criticism when there is a Hindu miscarriage of justice (Babri Masjid issue for example)


--Do not post videos on the forums--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=951iB8zW_wE

This covers more of his views on this issue - the sound quality is atrocious but I think he mentions Pakistan in this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlUXIgWp2F4 (1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znbLWOVc3-c (2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znbLWOVc3-c (3)

[pavilionnotebook]

With regards to those comments...the 3 points that the indian muslims do not need pakistan's help. Also that terrorism is 1 way.i.e from pakistan and also his viewpoint the majority of hindus respect muslims. I think he put the figure at 70% or maybe 90% can't remember exactly but it was a very high figure. All these facts are clearly in his response to Musharraf. As aapa you are familiar with the madani family please clarify these issues. Once the father of maulana mahmood mentioned something infront of my father and my father clarified it with him (Hadhrat Maulana Asad madni rh). If I mention it here it would cause a storm....however the fact is that it seems indian muslims are using some sort of diplomacy...and at times making ambigous statements so as not to alienate the majority hindu population.

I could clarify things with him if you gave me some video/audio link where you heard these comments. There are so many people on the internet who throw rumours around about the Madani family that it would be embarrassing to just say 'one person on the internet said you said this but cannot back his statement up'. The Madani family right from the time of Moulana Hussain Ahmad Madani and his ustaadhs before him have been involved in Indian politics for one reason and that is for the social, economic and religious welfare of the Muslims in India. They stand up for them when no one else can. Understandably, when you get involved in such issues people will make all sorts of false attributions and put all sorts of words in your mouth and the easiest way to do that is to cause rifts amongst the Muslims themselves and then focus hard on the seeds of disunity until the little, insignificant things cancel out all the good. Every political leader will make mistakes. The difference of opinion between the akabireen at the time of the Indian partition is no secret, but the hearts of the akabireen are full of respect and love for each other.

Anyway, if you can please provide links to these statements I would be grateful. Otherwise, with all due respect, I would trust my own instinct and say I cannot believe the statements are 100% accurate.

[Wachearex]

I don't understand what is being considered so absurd about his opinion? The 70-90% thing? If so, that would be him being diplomatic and fully understandable, he was speaking where there was national coverage and I'm sure it helped the impression of Muslims in India immensely.

The video I posted above covers what he said. The main video where he confronts Musharraf about Indians not needing Pakistan's help & that at least 70%, but even as high as 90% of hindus support Indian Muslims. In the second video he says that terrorists are coming from Pakistan and attacking India. He makes it clear that war with Pakistan is an unacceptable route of action.

Short transcript of relevant section (in Part 1, around 1:15 min into video)- theres more in the interview so don't rely just on my transcript:

Maulana Sb: Rajneti(?) yeh hai ke paros ke des ke sarzamin se aake hamaare uper hamla kar rahe hai
Interviewer: Aap maante hai na paros wale aa rahe hai? Pakistan se ..
Maulana Sb: 100% bilkul 100% aa rahe hai, aur hamare parosi mulk ka ravaiyya, ghayr-zimadarana. Bilkul ghayr-zimadarana ravaiyya. Agar woh yeh kehte hai ki unka involvement nahi hai isme, to unhe zimadari, samajhdari, aur ek acche parosi hone ka sabut dena parega is inhe waqt. Jiska wo sabut nahi de pa rahe hai.

[Matajic]

I have a few things to say...but it's not good to flare up emotions...I will leave it at that
All I can say is when the Indian police is only firing at muslim mobs and leaving the mushriks to go on a rampage....then can you blame us for seeking pakistani help. Let me say no more.

[Woziwfaq]

Excellent Urdu article on Hindu & Muslim Unity

[Wachearex]

London786: Please do share what you have to, it is a discussion board after all. Do you personally think Pakistan-funded 'terrorism' (i.e. the form of warfare that doesn't differentiate between combatants and non-combatants) is acceptable? Do you not think it'll create more of a divide between the hindu majority and the muslims. There's no prizes for guessing who'd win that war.

True Life: Can you (or anyone) give a general gist of that article please? My urdu reading skills are very weak and it'll take me a week to go through that; i have trouble recognising the harder, less common words.

[Woziwfaq]

It's an amazingly witty-written refutation of those who call for Hindu and Muslim unity.

[pavilionnotebook]

Brother London786, you attributed 3 statements to Moulana that are incorrect:

He was saying that the Indian muslims do not need pakistan's help. Also that terrorism is 1 way.i.e from pakistan and also his viewpoint the majority of hindus respect muslims.

I hope you will not be offended by my attempt to clarify them, because I am only doing so to allay misinterpretation and not to refute your post.

1. What he said has to be taken in context. Musharraf was sitting there, telling the Indian Muslims how to deal with terrorism in their own country and he reply to that Maulana Mahmood said ‘Indian muslims have the ability to solve their own problems, they do not need your (i.e. Musharraf’s) advice.’


2. The second thing he told Musharraf was that ‘You (Musharraf) have accepted that problems are from both sides. If not both sides, you have at least acknowledged the problems that stem from one side.’This was a sarcastic remark that the audience laughed at as Moulana was conveying that Musharraf has readily acknowledged India’s faults but not Pakistan’s and is blind to the problems in his own country.


3. The third point you mention is not in the video anyway at all, but the figure of 70% that you quote is in his statement ‘that 70%, if not more than 70% of India’s Muslims will stand up and fight for the rights of Indian Muslims and will be prepared to fight against oppression (zulm).'

I am glad you raised these points here, so that you were able to clarify the points that you misunderstood. I’m also conscious that this is the second time in the past few days that his statements have been mistranslated. Brother marco111 acknowledged that it was due to him misunderstanding the Urdu language rather than trying to misquote him unintentionally, but I don’t wish to become the unofficial defender of the Madani family here on Sunniforum so I’ll hold back from doing so in the future.

Moulana is a high profile figure and the most respected Indian Muslim in the eyes of the Indian government and the Indian Muslims, which puts him in a unique position. He utilises this power to benefit Indian Muslims and to eradicate misconceptions against Islam. Because of that, many of his words are taken by the Indian public and twisted or exaggerated to malign his reputation. He is vilified in the Indian media for things he never did or said and this is something that is part and parcel of his job. I guess he is used to it and it's no big deal.

Also, as woeontothee mentioned, sometimes as a politician and dealing with the media you can't always express your real sentiments and have to be very diplomatic in public.

[Matajic]

With regards to the 3 points mentioned. I still don't get how what you said is very different to what I said. Anyway as your opinion and interpretation is more towards husne dann then I shall follow what you have said. With regards to the first point...ok your interpretation is better....with regards to your 2nd point...I don't know how you understood maulana madni said that. He clearly stated that terrorism is coming from pakistan not from india. That it is 1 way. The 3rd statement 70% would stand up for the rights of muslims? Ok...let us assume that he is being diplomatic. But do you really think 70% would stand up for muslims? It has been shown time and time again that a sizeable majority have complete hatred towards islam. Most people would actually be silent and ignore what is going on? I mean if there was a riot or something the majority would just carry on with their life...a very tiny minority would stand up...and a sizeable minority would actually join in the mayhem. Not many would actively help muslims trust me. This was proven in Gujrat where neighbours who had known families for centuries raped muslim ladies and burnt and looted shops etc. This is in stark contrast to the behaviour of muslims. When the Babri masjid incident happened some guys from my village were going to attack a temple. They were stopped and told what did these guys do? No-one would dare rape ladies. Even during partition time the trains of non-muslims going from muslim dominated terrorities were not burnt, women kidnapped etc. However those travelling from hindu/sikh dominated areas were attacked, kidnapped etc. There is a long history....I personally find way more tolerance in the UK compared to places like India.

Anyway I can see maulana madni saheb is in a difficult situation. Inshallah there is an alim from India who is a great thinker...from a great family of ulema. I have previously discussed such things with him. I shall ask his opinion and see what he says....

[Attarderb]

When in a position of weakness we behave as the Makki Struggle
And when in a position of strength we behave as Madani

I heard this from the Tableeghis and completely rejected it.However I found this in the writings of Mujaddid e Millah Mawlana Ashraf Ali Tahanwi.
He said the exact same!

Its not mansookh

[Attarderb]

Someone asked him in a dialogue from the ulema about what the muslims should do about
Kashmir considering their weakness-would qital be appropriate. Its a lengthy discussion compiled in a book called Shariat o Siyasat by Hazrat Haji Abdur razzaq shaheed
and Hazrat Muhammad Iqbal Qurayshi Sahib

Question :Then what is the option remaining for the muslims of kashmir for us to aid them?
Answer : People can go there and make tableegh to them and enjoin them to have unity.
Then only when they have sufficient power(to overcome the enemy ) can they be permitted to fight.
...

Quwwat Aadi Shart hain, Kamyabi Ka Khayal TAwaqqu' QUdrat Nahi
Merely hoping one might win is not considering to be Power.

[Biradallo]

To all sunnis and shias

when we , none of us is truely GOD so why shall any school of thought decide on his own that his school of thought is the one every other person should , must follow otherwise they are wrong. what I think any school of thought who thinks other school of thoughts are wrong HE IS DECLARING HIMSELF AS GOD which is a sinful act KHUNAHAY KABIRA

[pavilionnotebook]

Brother London786,

There is a difference of aasmaan zameen in what Moulana actually said and what you translated his comments to be. Small differences that change the meaning completely.

Put it this way: If a Shia, or other deviated person came to your house and tried to give you advice on how to do the tarbiyah of your children what would you say? Something like 'Thanks but no thanks. I can sort the problem of my own children out and I don't need your help. You go worry about your own kids.' This is the same thing. The words are not to be taken literally.

Which is why, with regards to the rest, I understand what you are saying. But at the time of the Gujrat massacres, there was no-one from the Muslim community, who was able to stop the brutal actions of the Hindus. The Muslims were weak and a minority. This vulnerability was the problem.

I'll leave it to that. You might want to respond to the words of Borther akabirofdeoband, because he raises some very interesting points far more worthy of discussion.

[Matajic]

thank you for the clarification. Anyway the makki/madni zamana. Muslims being weak etc. I have thought about these issues for a long time...I have my own views. If the muslims of afghanistan in the 1980s had thought like that. We are weak. The makki zamana scenario etc etc then right now forget afghanistan, pakistanis would be speaking russian. A lot of people gave sacrifice but eventually the ussr came to become non-existant. With regards to Kashmir I have my own views. I myself find the tactic of the kashmiri groups very strange who operate out of pakistan. They have very close connections to the ISA etc. Also their tactics have failed in the long run. It is known as the one way jihad....i.e. if you go you won't most likely come back. Anyway that is another totally different can of worms. Anyway soupy apa if you could just pass some information to maualan madni saheb. Give him my salaams and tell him that inshallah we have some glad tidings. In the coming years approximetely 15-20 years India shall be conquered by an islamic army. This has been related to me by a few sources amongst them one of the greatest auliya of India. Actually I'm currently researching this as well

By the way aapa soupy I have another question which maybe you could help me with. There was a khalifah of maulana Husain ahmed madni rh whose name was shah abdul ghaffour quraishi. His son is still alive. I am trying to locate his son and he lives somewhere in India. If you could maybe assist I would be very grateful. I am also trying to locate a list of the khulafah of maulana Hussain ahmed madni rh. I don't know if you can assist.

Anyway sorry for hurting anyone's feelings and if I have done so I seek forgiveness. I request everyone for duas

[Wachearex]

London786, Is it possible to get in contact with you privately somehow? Do you have access to the brothers' forum?

[Attarderb]

thank you for the clarification. Anyway the makki/madni zamana. Muslims being weak etc. I have thought about these issues for a long time...I have my own views. If the muslims of afghanistan in the 1980s had thought like that. We are weak. The makki zamana scenario etc etc then right now forget afghanistan, pakistanis would be speaking russian.

Your views are rejected. Are you a faqeeh or a muhaqqiq?
The words of Mawlana Thanwi take great precedence over yours and he was not a pacifist.

I will try and post the whole dialogue in urdu for you.
The questioner kept trying to say, so should we not do anything...SHould we allow the kuffar to walk all over us?

And he said basically we follow the nusoos.We don't follow our opinions.

You've probably been spending too much time with the Azzam type salafis.
If we followed the Makki/Madani model , whatever the dunyawi consequences, we would be following the Sunnah and rejoicing probably with eventual victory in this world and Firdaws in the next
They have neither Fiqh nor Tasawuf.Neither knowledge of deen nor dunya. Just Jazbaat

Khayr if you want to follow Jazbaat over the words of the Fuqaha, then Ahlan wa Sahlan.
Ma asalama

[Calluffence]

please do not post the whole discussion in urdu. If you have to post it, I believe its in the 1st volume of Malfuzaat. You can translate it and post it. That will be most beneficial. I know it will be a daunting task, but a beneficial one, nonetheless.