[zueqhbyhp]

I have been thinking about an issue the last few year and i would like to know the opinions of members about it.

How relevant our madrassah system is in this age? Is it good enough to be allowed to continue as it is right now or do we need some reformation in it? Secular education vs Islamic education is a topic which has been widely discussed ever since the time of Sir Sayyed Ahmed khan. Sir Sayyed Ahmed khan lived in an age when the scientific revolution combined with the social enlightenment had taken a grip over the popular imagination in the west and its effects were reflected on the subcontinent for the first time. Sir Sayyed Ahmad khan can be taken as the first reaction (or first victim of) to the western enlightment. It was Sir Sayyed Ahmad khan who opted for deistic doctrines to bring science and Islam out of the "conflict" (he thought that there was). His doctrines included the rejection of anything which collided with scientific determinism or for which the physical laws (which he thought be the only laws governing the whole of the reality) had no explaination. The first causalities of his re-interpretation of Islam were miracles and angels, he denied the former and renamed the later as natural laws. Sir Sayyed then established the Muslim anglo-oriental college which would later become the Muslim Ali Garh university.

The reaction against this was obvious. The Ulama did Takfeer of Sir Sayyed and reportedly started to advice Muslims not to get their children admitted in MAO college. This was the start of rivalry between the secular education and Islamic education. The graduates of MAO college would be called Misters and the graduates of Islamic madrassahs would be known as Mullahs. This division of MR and Mullah and the rivalry is still there , though the terminologies have changes , the scenario has changed and the tones have changed on both sides. The secular education has gained very much acceptability and almost no one rejects or castigates it now in the Islamic circles. The madrassahs have been unfortunate not to gain that much acceptability till now and it seems hard in future as well. The Misters oppose them with the full threshold of their throats and many more words have been added to the vocabulary of the modernists which did not exist in the era of Sir Sayyed . The word "Mullah" is used and taken in negative sense now. The various issues related to 9/11 and "terrorism" have added to the pains of madrassahs.

So where do we stand now? Should we do some kind of reformation in our madrassah system to make it compatible with the age or they are fine as they are? The second issue is that should we conclude that Madrassahs teach Islam and schools teach science so one can visit the both and their is no need to induce any scientific educational system in madrassahs and hence no need for the unification of both OR science has taken a grip over our daily lives to such an extent that Islam must say something about it and it is trivial to separate Islamic and scientific education so they must take place together? The third issue is that these are the graduates of universities who acquire vital roles in various countries not the graduates of madrassahs so we must bring worldly educated "Mullahs" to take a hold on the policy making institutes or otherwsie the secularists would keep on ruling?

[soprofaxel]

There have been seminars on this subject. Some of the contributer includes Scholars and academics and educationalist.
The likes of TJ winter Abdal Hakim Murad of Cambridge university feels what is needed a little adjustment to the Darul ulm i.e how to relate to the secular science i.e captalism, socialism etc.
Perhaps spending a year in a secular academia
http://www.cambridgemuslimcollege.org/

Some have suggested 2 distinct systems 1: Existing System + some modules on various secular ism - socialism. capitalism etc.
2. Core religious subjects only and core secular science allowing graduates of these scholar to venture out in the secular world but connected to the formal darul ulm.

Some have been attampting to do this. The likes Ebrahim Community college www.ebrahimcollege.org.uk is one such institute but often suffers from lack of fund. The community they serve often is not mature enough to support them and some hopes for them to fail because of loss of control and for secterian bias.
The likes of Zaituna is perhaps one of the well funded one.
http://www.zaytunacollege.org/

The danger is becoming Jack of all and master of none. So close observation is needed.

[Tribas4u]

Assalamu alaykum

The suggestion for change in deeni taleem curriculum is from we secular graduates. And how many among us can read an Arabic hadeeth book without harakaath (zabar zer, strokes). Knowing the meaning of hadeeth is very far.

Normally the best intelligent among us are in secular education. A few zealots among us get into madrasah education. And we want to burden them with every stuff around.

Why can't we the secular graduates study deeni taleem in parallel? The reply will be secular eduction is tough, it requires total concentration, time and effort.

So the best solution is: let us be practical. Statu quo............

There is an alternative. Let the present curriculum continue for normal graduates. After graduation from madrasah, the ulema go for specialisation like ifta, adab, tafseer etc. There can be specialisation in modern science education, which can be sponsored with good monthly stipend for the researchers by our brothers who agree with doctor sahib.

[TeftyJokip]

Assalamu alaykum

The suggestion for change in deeni taleem curriculum is from we secular graduates. And how many among us can read an Arabic hadeeth book without harakaath (zabar zer, strokes). Knowing the meaning of hadeeth is very far.

Normally the best intelligent among us are in secular education. A few zealots among us get into madrasah education. And we want to burden them with every stuff around.

Why can't we the secular graduates study deeni taleem in parallel? The reply will be secular eduction is tough, it requires total concentration, time and effort.

So the best solution is: let us be practical. Statu quo............

There is an alternative. Let the present curriculum continue for normal graduates. After graduation from madrasah, the ulema go for specialisation like ifta, adab, tafseer etc. There can be specialisation in modern science education, which can be sponsored with good monthly stipend for the researchers by our brothers who agree with doctor sahib.

Very well said brother...
I have Listened in Maulana Sajjad Nomani DB bayan where he said, madaras are solely for Allah' Sake, don't mix it with duniyawi education.
He explained it further by saying that todays secularist (universities passout )only gives mahwara(suggestion) but they are not ready to sacrifice their own carrier for the sake of building Islamic school. He said will you go to Bucher shop and ask for today's newspaper, will he not cut your head with his knife(something to that effect). So please Madarsas are only for religious studies.

[Tribas4u]

Assalamu alaykum

I would suggest to download and read this book. The topic is "significant role of madrassah"

English-IslahiKhutbat-DiscoursesOnIslamicWayOfLife-V7-MuftiTaqiUsmaniDB.pdf

pages 83-103

[zueqhbyhp]

jazakallah brothers. I would add a point which was made by a friend of mine. "The madrassah education has not only become irrelevant in this age but the madrassahs are serving as the nurseries of sectarianism. The way Islamic education has been institutionalized in a strict fashion by the madrassahs make it impossible for the student to have a good bite as the whole of the Islamic education and enjoy the charms of the rich traditional Islamic epistemology. Instead he reads the limited sect oriented curriculum which makes him very prone to act like a sectarian person for the rest of his life". How do you respond to this?

[ffdfriendforurr]

Issue: We need 'ulema who understand politics, history, economics and the construction of society in order that they might lead us back to prominence. Maybe we shouldn't teach secular subjects directly, but all of this can be taught through the Islamic way - teach politics through books of Siyaasah Shari'ah and history through books of ta'rikh. This is not a 'secularization' of the madrassa, just a 'widening,' if you will...

[Tribas4u]

Assalamu alaykum

Even though Darul uloom Deoband is hanafi dominant, but it does teach the fiqh of other three madhabs. It also instructs its students who lead the congregation of musallees of mixed madhabs to follow the fiqh of breaking of wudhoo from other three madhabs.

I have seen books from other religions and sects in Library of Deoband for comparative study. One can also see books about astronomy.

I had met a teacher who is expert in calculation of salah timings much before the computer programs arrived.

[Tribas4u]

Also I have heard Deobandi Ulema quoting from Moulana Maudoodi and Sir Syed Ahamed khan. (Even though they have strong differences with them).

[soprofaxel]

Dr. Ati
The fault is not the education but limitation arsing from lack of resources and time. Also the brightest students are not generally sent there. Those who often talk high and mighty do not want to put their money in such venture as is the case with Ebrahim Community college. The community in general is too shortshightedness and some religious educators are simply too thick headed and averse to change. the likes of Mufti Taqi supports the likes of ECC but the community they are serving remains unsupportive.
The propogation of secterianism is more apt for Saudi based seminaries - their criteria of students speaks the volume.

The modernist (in love of secularism) often viel their cricticsm in such manner. If you look to the christian seminary, they focus on their religious education and is not asked to adopt to secularist agenda. People suffering from inferiority complex does!
Allahualam