[Fegemiembendy]

Assalamualikum,

I happen to hear differing stories from these two great scholars regarding the "Green Dome of the Prophet"

While Pir Zulfikar d.b credits "Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi r.e.h" for saving it from demolition at the hands of the Salafi movement, Maulana Tariq Jameel in his speech creditted Maulaba Shafi Uthmani d.b. for the same.

Are they speaking of two different incidents or there is a conflict in their claims ?

[paypaltoegold1]

Assalamualikum,

I happen to hear differing stories from these two great scholars regarding the "Green Dome of the Prophet"

While Pir Zulfikar d.b credits "Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi r.e.h" for saving it from demolition at the hands of the Salafi movement, Maulana Tariq Jameel in his speech creditted Maulaba Shafi Uthmani d.b. for the same.

Are they speaking of two different incidents or there is a conflict in their claims ?

Genuine and serious question.

1. There wasn't always a dome there
2. It wasn't even green till a few hundred years ago

So whats up with saving it? I don't understand it, is there a religious obligation?

And I am NOT calling for its destruction, either! Discussion on colour...

[Fegemiembendy]

Genuine and serious question.

1. There wasn't always a dome there
2. It wasn't even green till a few hundred years ago

So whats up with saving it? I don't understand it, is there a religious obligation?

Brother Colonel ... did you happen to hear the video posted by Hanafi Fiqh Channel which has Pir Zulfiqar d.b. speak about this incident as though it was a blessing of it bieng saved.

I wish to know what is Deoband's stance on this ? Do they support the Green Dome or prefer the grave of the prophet s.a.w leveled.

If they prefer it leveled, then why do Pir Zulfiqar and Maulana Tariq Jameel d.b speak in support of its (Green Domes) existance ?

If they prefer the domb as is currently, then I need to know who saved it... Ashraf Ali Thanvi d.b or Maulana Shafi uthmani d.b or both [incase they are different incidents]

[paypaltoegold1]

Brother Colonel ... did you happen to hear the video posted by Hanafi Fiqh Channel which has Pir Zulfiqar d.b. speak about this incident as though it was a blessing of it bieng saved.

I wish to know what is Deoband's stance on this ? Do they support the Green Dome or prefer the grave of the prophet s.a.w leveled.

If they prefer it leveled, then why do Pir Zulfiqar and Maulana Tariq Jameel d.b speak in support of its (Green Domes) existance ?

If they prefer the domb as is currently, then I need to know who saved it... Ashraf Ali Thanvi d.b or Maulana Shafi uthmani d.b or both [incase they are different incidents]

Brother, I have heard of the Bayan but haven’t listened to it and the issue of levelling the grave of Sayyidina Rasul-ullah is ridiculous and should be opposed because it has existed for hundreds and hundreds of years and many Ulamah have witnessed it and there has been NO MOVEMENT in the history of Islam to level it etc so if someone wants to do their personal ijtehaad they should be opposed.

There are possibly two cartegories of Ulamah on this:

1. Majority: Vast majority of Ulamah don't have an issue with this at all.
2. Minority: Some Ulamah may have an issue with this.

The minority should be stopped from implementing their opinion because it will cause hurt, grief and chaos for no reason. The Evidence for such an action is as follows:

Sayyidituna 'Aisha (RA) (the wife of the Prophet) narrated that Allah's Apostle said to her, "Do you know that when your people (Quraish) rebuilt the Ka'ba, they decreased it from its original foundation laid by Abraham?" I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Why don't you rebuild it on its original foundation laid by Abraham?" He replied, "Were it not for the fact that your people are close to the pre-lslamic Period of ignorance (i.e. they have recently become Muslims) I would have done so." The sub-narrator, 'Abdullah (bin 'Umar ) stated: 'Aisha 'must have heard this from Allah's Apostle for in my opinion Allah's Apostle had not placed his hand over the two corners of the Ka'ba opposite Al-Hijr only because the Ka'ba was not rebuilt on its original foundations laid by Abraham. [Bukhari]

I am just discussing the colour because to the best of my knowledge it wasn’t ALWAYS GREEN.

[rXpX]

I will provide below a fatwa from AskImam.org on this issue.

Question

I have heard in lecture of Moulvi Tariq Jameel (Dammatu barakaatum), that during 1924’s some ulemas of Najd had destructed the tombs of Sahabas and finally they planned to destroy the tomb of Our Prophet (peace be upon him), when this matter spreads around the Munazara was fixed between Ulema of Nazd and other Ulemas around the world, from the side of Ulemas around the world

Sheikul Arab wa ajam Allama Mehmood Hassan madni (First Student of the Great Madarsa Darool Uloom Deoband) was selected as the Munazir (speaker).

The debate starts and finally Allama Mehmood Hassan madni (Rahmatullahi Alaihi) had won the debate,

I want to know in detail, what is the hadith that Moulana had made as base and some brief about the discussion.

I heard that , the whole debate is available in a format of book, if possible can you please give the information about the book.

Answer

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
As-salāmu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuh.


We have not come across the audio of Maulana Tariq Jameel Saheb wherein the incident of the green dome is narrated as you have described. The audio of Maulana Tariq Jameel Saheb which we have come across give the account with some difference.

Nonetheless, we will present the incident as it has been reported in some of the books. The incident took place in 1927 (1344-5H) and is not regarding Sheikhul Hind Hazrat Maulana Mahmood Hasan Deobandi rehmatullah alayh (d. 1920CE / 1339H), rather one of his students’ Allama Shabeer Ahmed Uthmani rematullah alayh (d. 1949CE / 1369H).

Allama Shabeer Ahmed Uthmani rematullah alayh is one of the luminaries of last century who excelled and championed in Islamic Academics. He wrote exemplary works like Tafseer Uthmāni and Fathul Mulhim Sharah Sahih Muslim, whose brilliance is open for intellectuals of this field.

In 1927 after Ibn Sa’ūd had taken over Madinah, he started to cleanse the area from all forms of practices which he deemed contrary to Shariah. Ibn Sa’ūd was a Hambalī in fiqh and followed a very stringent interpretation of the classical texts with the consultation of Ulama of Najd. He deemed that all buildings built over graves were directly responsible for the Shirk and Kufr of people who come and prostrate at these places. Hence he took measures to remove all these structures on the graves. In doing so, he made no distinction between the graves that belonged to Sahaba or Azwaj of Nabi salallāhu ‘alayhi wasallam. According to his orders all structures were to be demolished.

If the treatment continued, the same logic also demanded that the green dome over the resting place of Nabi salallāhu ‘alayhi wasallam be removed as well. Such concerns caused a sudden uproar all over the Ummah and Ibn Sa’ūd sensed the increasing tension among the muslims against his regime in Hijāz.

Ibn Sa’ūd, in his effort to deal with the intense situations called for a conference of leading Ulama from different parts of the Muslim world to discuss the matter. India being one of the bigger countries was asked to send a delegation of Ulama. Jamiatul Ulama Hind sent Allama Shabeer Ahmed Uthmani, Mufti Kifayatullah Saheb Dehelvi and Maulana Abdul Haleem Sadiqī Saheb rehmatullah alayhim, while Khilafat Committee sent Maulana Muhammad Ali Jawhar, Maulana Shawkat Ali and Maulana Sayed Suleman Nadwi rehmatullah alayhim.[1]

The delegation reached Makkah Mukarrama in May 1927. Allama Shabeer Ahmed Uthmani rahmatullah alayh gave numerous talks presence of Ulama of Najd. Ibn Sa’ūd was impressed by the in depth knowledge and faqahat of Ulama from Hind, and acknowledged at occasions of his happiness on having met them.

In the limited historical books we have access to, we can conclusively state that this delegation did tackle the issue of taking blessing from special places. They also implored Ibn Sa’ūd not to show obsession in obliterating these sites as that would cause undue unrest and opposition against his regime. Allama Shabeer Ahmed Uthmani rahmatullah alayh established that the while building on the graves is not permissible, but a radical approach towards destruction of these sites was counterproductive and against wisdom. While all these angles to the arguments were discussed, the books do not make any mention of the Green Dome.

And Allah Ta’āla Knows Best

Mawlana Faisal bin Abdul Hameed
Student, Darul Iftaa
Canada

Checked and Approved by,
Mufti Ebrahim Desai.
www.daruliftaa.net

References :

Hayāt Uthmānī
Kamalāt Uthmānī
Malfuzāt Muhaddith Kashmīrī

[1] Hazrat Maulana Ahmad Ridhā Saheb Bijnaurī rehmatullah alayh gives a slightly different account of the delegation. He quotes a malfūz from Allama Shabeer Ahmed rehmatullah alayh and says that from the side of Jamiatul Ulama Mufti Kifayatullah rahmatullah alayh and myself were appointed as delegation members while Maulana Ahmad Sa’īd and Maulvi Abdul Haleem rahmatullahuma alayh came along as secretaries. Syed Sulam Nadwi rahmatullah alayh was representing Khilafat Committee. (Malfuzāt Muhaddith Kashmirī Pg 184)

http://askimam.org/public/question_detail/19745

[occurrini]

I think the incident of Mawlana Shabbir Ahmed Usmani (ra) is much more famous. Also, I think Pir Zulfiqar sahib (db) in his audio is simply relating a personal conversation with someone he had ta'alluq with through the Silsilah, and is therefore not so famous.

[paypaltoegold1]

I think the incident of Mawlana Shabbir Ahmed Usmani (ra) is much more famous. Also, I think Pir Zulfiqar sahib (db) in his audio is simply relating a personal conversation with someone he had ta'alluq with through the Silsilah, and is therefore not so famous.

Did the Saudi Government ACTUALLY & SERIOUSLY tried to destory it? Thats just SERIOUSLY unbelievable! Can anyone recall authentic history that it actually happened.

So far we have 3 separate personalities being linked to this incident. Did this even happen?

I know about isolated Fatwaas here and there but was there an actual attempt to destory the dome?

[Fegemiembendy]

I am not able to find the link but once i saw on wiki the planned destruction of Holy sites and the list of sites.

Anyways, The House of Abu Bakr r.z is now Hotel Hilton and House of Khadijah r.z is now a public toilet

[paypaltoegold1]

I am not able to find the link but once i saw on wiki the planned destruction of Holy sites and the list of sites.

Anyways, The House of Abu Bakr r.z is now Hotel Hilton and House of Khadijah r.z is now a public toilet

Yes we should condemn the wanton destruction of Islamic history and heritage.

[Fegemiembendy]

When bin Saud took Medina in 1805, his followers, adherents to Wahhabism, destroyed nearly every tomb dome in Medina in order to prevent their veneration,[4] and the Green Dome is said to have narrowly escaped the same fate.[5] Muhammad's tomb however was stripped of its gold and jewel ornaments.[4] Similar events took place in 1925 when the Saudi militias retook—and this time managed to keep—the city.[6][7][8] In the Wahhabi interpretation of Islam, burial is to take place in unmarked graves.[5]

In 2007, the grand mufti of Saudi Arabia, Abdul-Azeez ibn Abdullaah Aal ash-Shaikh, stated that "the green dome shall be demolished and the three graves flattened in the Prophet's Masjid".[9]

Source: Wiki

[HwoRas1]

I am not able to find the link but once i saw on wiki the planned destruction of Holy sites and the list of sites.

Anyways, The House of Abu Bakr r.z is now Hotel Hilton and House of Khadijah r.z is now a public toilet

disgusting! if its true

[Fegemiembendy]

disgusting! if its true

There were agitation regarding public toilet upon Khadijah r.z house, hoever not sure if they roll back thier plans.

Source: Wiki

[HwoRas1]

There were agitation regarding public toilet upon Khadijah r.z house, hoever not sure if they roll back thier plans.

Source: Wiki

Taliban should concentrate on the sauds, our enemies are within

[AdobebePhoto]

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[HwoRas1]

super stuff bro ahamed !!

[Aleksis]

super stuff bro ahamed !!

Really superb Ahamed bhai!!!

[soipguibbom]

Really superb Ahamed bhai!!!

Can someone summarize in English?

[streMunford]

Brother Colonel ... did you happen to hear the video posted by Hanafi Fiqh Channel which has Pir Zulfiqar d.b. speak about this incident as though it was a blessing of it bieng saved.

I wish to know what is Deoband's stance on this ? Do they support the Green Dome or prefer the grave of the prophet s.a.w leveled.

If they prefer it leveled, then why do Pir Zulfiqar and Maulana Tariq Jameel d.b speak in support of its (Green Domes) existance ?

If they prefer the domb as is currently, then I need to know who saved it... Ashraf Ali Thanvi d.b or Maulana Shafi uthmani d.b or both [incase they are different incidents]

brother,

If someone can find the lectures..
As far as i remember, Pir sb was discussing about levelling of rasulullah grave... and ml. ashraf ali thanvi's ra response to them... when the najdi's came to india (deoband)...
While ml. Tariq jameel sb is speaking abt the green dome... and ml. shabbir ahmed usmani ra response to the najdi's when they went to hijaz...
Am i right ?

[Fegemiembendy]

brother,

If someone can find the lectures..
As far as i remember, Pir sb was discussing about levelling of rasulullah grave... and ml. ashraf ali thanvi's ra response to them... when the najdi's came to india (deoband)...
While ml. Tariq jameel sb is speaking abt the green dome... and ml. shabbir ahmed usmani ra response to the najdi's when they went to hijaz...
Am i right ?

Brother Hiso... This is exactly what I am wanting to know and understand from learned brothers.

Meanwhile if Brother Ahmed can translate the article in English for the benefit of others.

[golozhopik]

From what i know

Moulana Ashraf ali thanvi incident was when najdi scholars came to deoband for opinion whether there should be any dome over the grave or not, and moulana ashraf ali thanvi said that the grave was under a roof as rasulalah was buried in Hadrat Ayesha raziallah home, so there is no conflict with what ahadith say about no roof over graves.

I believe that there is no conflict rather 2 different incidents, some scholar may find them in registers of darul uloom deoband.