[AccusaJalsBub]

is it wrong?
every man for himself?
survival of the fittest?

[AccusaJalsBub]

capitalism involves making as much money as you want
and making your prices so low that small businesses can barely thrive

you are hurting other markets for your own gain

is that wrong?

[favwebbb]

It's better if you learn what is difference between having capital and capitalism.

[jeockammece]

Asalam 3leikoum wr wb,

Depends on how you define Capitalism. There are some very good aspects of capitalism such as a free market and rights of land and land ownership etc. I have more of a problem with USA consumerism,corptocracy,and oligarchy than I do capitalism.

Here is a good debate between a almost Atlas Shrugged type free market capitalist Milton Friedman and a young university student. Watch Milton give him a schooling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev_Up...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPqdRqacpFk&feature=related

[pprropeciaaa]

ASALAMU-ALYKUM

no you're right theres nothing wrong with the free market, theres nothing wrong with capitalism and theres nothing wrong with wanting to better oneself.

however the West and western economies and societies places such an emphasis on these ideaologies that now everyone thinks about themselves and what is best for them, no longer do we do anything for the social good.

Communism is the complete opposite one in which the individual is virtually rendered obsolete, he is expected to do everything for the good of society and is expected to play his part in his community. Communism akmost suppresses the individual.

Islam is middle ground between these two schools of thought, we are urged to think of others and do what is best for the ummah/community. In some cases this has been made obligatory, yet we are also encouraged to seek rizq, to seek Allah's bounty and to better ourselves for the sake of the muslims. Our religion truly is unique, we have been so blessed but sometimes i dont' think we fully realize it.

May Allah gives us thq Tawfiq to implement and abide by the Quran and Sharia.

[Stasher11]

capitalism involves making as much money as you want
and making your prices so low that small businesses can barely thrive

you are hurting other markets for your own gain

is that wrong?

I am CEO/President of my own company that i started at age 23. I now have 23 feild employees 2 secretarys and 3 office managers, one of them a good friend of mine and Muslim named Mohammed. We make a good amount of profit. I think some need to understand that we don't drive prices low to kill other competitors, in fact I am friends with 90% of my competitors, BUT we are still competing for the same work. If you drive your prices down too much you will have to do twice the work for half the money......trust me, no one wants to do that. The goal is higher prices, with halfthe work and providing quality, not just quantity. I spend a fortune training my employees to be the best, and they are. My company tithes (gives money to the church) and My company (or I) payed for Mohammed to go on Hajj in 2009. Hajj is expensive!

It is wrong if your only goal is to undermine or underbid all your competition just to hurt them and put them out of business, but usually the ones going under are the ones trying to do this. Sort of like when some crazy dude comes on the forums blasting Islam....he will get DELETED real quick!

Plus.....I'm an Italian from NY City.....You had better be carefull about messin wit my business if you know whats good for your health!....just messin.lol......a little

[favwebbb]

capitalism involves making as much money as you want
and making your prices so low that small businesses can barely thrive

you are hurting other markets for your own gain

is that wrong?

This story was happened before Muhammad (saw) became a Prophet.

One day He went to an other place in a trading expedition. At the same time, some competitors from Makah also came to this place. And when those competitors saw Muhammad (saw), they decreased their prices lower than the limit. They didn't care about gain because their goal was to destroy Muhammad (saw) business. But Muhammad (saw) knew, in that place the demand was higher than supply. He was right, when those competitors goods were sold out, people bought Muhammad (saw) goods in normal price. So, Muhammad (saw) back to Makah brought big gain, those competitors back to Makah brought big loss.

[Aagotiq]

For capitalism to work somebody has to suffer. Even though the world has seen great technological advancements still capitalism has failed to address issues such as poverty as the system is flawed. It cannot be a success if there is nobody to suffer while others are a success. There is no fair distribution of wealth in capitalism.

[djmassk]

The lexical definition of capitalism means a system where property is owned by individuals rather than the state.

On the other hand most of the doctrine preached in America in economics classes, for example, is justification for evil or blameworthy traits and does not actually necessary follow from the basic definition of capitalism. Examples:
The idea that absolute pursuit of individual wealth at the expense of others ultimately benefiting everyone.
Ultimate greed, or the principles that human beings are never satisfied with what they have, not matter how much they have. This is obviously in direct contradiction with the goal of a Muslim.

Islam does not preach forced distribution of wealth as communism does. Rather, it relies on individuals to willingly give of their private property to distribute their wealth. That means the end result is a more equal society, but it doesn't come by force, but rather through individual reformation of hearts.

[Stasher11]

I wish that could happen in the US. For the Amedeekins to give willingly. They would have to sell their Escalades and BMW's and 12,000 sqr ft homes and stop complaining about being broke all the time.

[favwebbb]

Definition of capitalism maybe different in one place and another place, according to a person and another person, in book and in reality.

In books, capitalism is a system that free from government hands, but in the real world, I found government is not free from capitalist hands. Those capitalists can push government to make rules that gives them some privilege. However, this is an observation in my country, in other countries maybe different.

[JeremyBalll]

Capitalism is on the extremme end of the spectrum, like communism. If capitalism is strictly applied in its most litterate form, it will lead to corruption, the rich capitalist will rule over the masses. Just as in communism, the state will become corrupted and dominate the masses. Neither one of these systems can work, unless rightous people are running them. This is why (like another poster said) Islam is the perfect blend. Nowhere in the world is true Capitalism, or Democracy, or Communism performed because these systems quickley get out of control with out a balance from the other end of the spectrum.

Here in America they pride themselves on a free market capitalist society, but they also include some socialist ideas in the system. The state pays for roads and parks and other municipalities, and private bussiness is aloud to do bussiness with some state regulation. It is an excepted fact that either extreme of the spectrum will result in colapse of the system, as seen in the USSR. China is good example of a communist state which relises the flaws of communism and balances it with a large free market enterprise.

The bottom line is no socio-economic system will work efficiently without a moral infrastructure securely in place - this includes christianity or any other religion which has basic moral codes in its teachings. the difference is, no other religion has within its teachings, a governmental system, except Islam. Which is one reason Islam has in the past been such a powerful movement both esotericly and exotericly, and in the future will continue to be a major world governmental system.

[Stasher11]

There is hasn't been nor ever will be a perfect and truely just system of "Fair Trade" amongst we men. The whole problem is the free will thing. To depend on our own hearts to be truthfull and giving will alaways be blocked by a small amount of greed, if not allot. Unless one claims to be God themselves they cannot deny they feel greedy at times. On the other hand, no human being regardless of how educated they are is ordaned by our creator to rule over us entirely. so we are stuck in this conundrum no matter what We believe. Trough out history and even now it has been proven that in humanity, more has been killed, raped, pillaged, burnt, stolen, and destroyed in the name of God than in any of the natural disasters to hit this planet, point being......there is no great system of governance of people or money. We can argue and debate it all day, and at the end of the day the US will still be Capitalist and the communist will still be thenselves.

Spend your time focused on God, let God decide your financial well-being and if your not rich.....TOUGH! Those of us who are humble and good to one another shall receive Allahs blessings and reward for good deeds.

God be with you!

[djmassk]

I wish that could happen in the US. For the Amedeekins to give willingly. They would have to sell their Escalades and BMW's and 12,000 sqr ft homes and stop complaining about being broke all the time.

This is not something that happens miraculously. It is a misconception that some people are just inherently stingy and others are generous. Even if you want to be generous, everyone hears that little voice when you are giving, asking, "What if... [my house burns down/I lose my job/the car breaks down/etc].... and I need some saved money?"
So it is evident it is a matter of training. Alhumdulillah, the Shariah establishes an ingenious training regimen that can train the human being to become generous if they follow it. And that is the difference between a society like that of Umar's Madinah and today's America. The human beings are the same, just they have not trained themselves properly.

[Stasher11]

This is not something that happens miraculously. It is a misconception that some people are just inherently stingy and others are generous. Even if you want to be generous, everyone hears that little voice when you are giving, asking, "What if... [my house burns down/I lose my job/the car breaks down/etc].... and I need some saved money?"
So it is evident it is a matter of training. Alhumdulillah, the Shariah establishes an ingenious training regimen that can train the human being to become generous if they follow it. And that is the difference between a society like that of Umar's Madinah and today's America. The human beings are the same, just they have not trained themselves properly.

When you say "training" does that mean it is obligatory? Some may say they are generous then because they are told to be, not because they feel conviction of the heart to do so. I agree we should all always be generous in our giving especially in prayer, but if we just do it because we are told, does that mean we really want to? Or because we are affriad of what happens if we don't?

Thank you in advance for your reply. God be with you.

[djmassk]

When you say "training" does that mean it is obligatory? Some may say they are generous then because they are told to be, not because they feel conviction of the heart to do so. I agree we should all always be generous in our giving especially in prayer, but if we just do it because we are told, does that mean we really want to? Or because we are affriad of what happens if we don't?

Thank you in advance for your reply. God be with you.

وعليك,

This is a very insightful question! I think an example is most appropriate. When a child is growing up, if the parents from a young age force upon the child good manners and respect for others, then when he gets older, even when he is no long afraid of the parents, even when the parents are dead, that training will remain with him and he will have good manners and respect by default (unless he makes an effort to change). In the same way children that are spoiled and allowed to behave inappropriately will grow up with those same manners. Now if he wants to correct himself, he will have to either force himself to practice those good manners until it gets trained into his nature (this is very difficult) or find someone else to force him (for example, this is what Muslims go to the spiritual enlightened scholars (sufis) for).
In the same way, even if a person wishes to be generous, he will probably find it very difficult to do so, because as I mentioned, that little nagging voice will always be saying "What if?" So now, in order to get trained, the zakaah, for example and among other things, is required of him. Presumably, if he pays it with the correct intention, then eventually he will get to the next level and find giving in general, even when it is not obligatory, much easier. If a person only does the obligatory things grudgingly and because of fear of some authority, then it is expected that he may not ever progress to the next level. This is like the example of the teenager who's parents never taught him manners before, but suddenly they decide to start at that advanced age when he is already nearly independent. So now, whether it has an effect or not will largely depend on whether he conforms willingly or rebels and does it grudgingly.

Incidentally, this training to be generous is actually one of the things that are supposed to be taught to Muslim children from a young age as well. If you read in our books of law you will find that when parents wish to donate something from their money, they are encouraged to hand it to the children and have the children go and physically put it in the box, or whatever.

[DoterForeva]

Brothers, Capitalism is an economic system of human construct. It is kufr and it is haram to support or espouse it even if one is forced to adhere to it.

How so?
In the West and increasingly in the Muslim world, the field of economics is taught in a way to portray capitalism as a natural evolution of human development rather than as an human constructed ideologically based system.
This is done by presenting the fundamental origin of economics as based on capitalist theories that have been adopted over time.
The case in point is the fundamental idea of Scarcity. Scarcity is the concept that since there is a finite number of resources and unlimited numbers of wants and needs, that people engage in trade. This transaction results in a relationship of supply of resources and demand for resources which gives rise to a price for a thing or service (commodity). John Adams is seen as the 'founder' of capitalist economic thought. His fundamental theories were buillt upon over the centuries to construct capitalism today.

Capitalists perceived that a 'free market' is required to allow for individuals to acquire their needs and wants therein. Economics teaches that human economies are a spectrum: free market economy (capitalism) sits on one end of the spectrum and command economy (communism) sits on the other end of the economy.

But Capitalist teaching suggests that the less government involvement, the greater the freedom of the market and the more needs and wants of the people are met. But this is not a Truth of reality, rather its an 'belief' of an ideology. In reality, Capitalists make several fundamental adoptions, such as privatization of natural resources and usury, as well as rely on government spending to sustain markets.

In reality, government spending and involvement in an economy is FUNDAMENTAL to all economies. The recent global financial crisis brought on by Wall Street abuse of the securities market has been directly connected to the repealing of government regulation and oversight in financial trading. More FREEDOM was given to the American financial industry and they engaged in the biggest frauds in human history.

In reality, there is a limited number of resources, but how a society defines those resources ( public property, private property, etc), defines, balances, and determines needs and wants will define how those resources are traded.

Islam recognizes the natural relations of supply and demand and how price emerges from this. And that a market should be allowed to naturally relate supply to demand. However, where Capitalism renders all resources to be private property eg. increasingly water is being privatized, Islam recognizes resources such as water, oil, gas, coal, etc to be public property managed by the government. Thus, these essentials are more equitably present in a market, rather than becoming the monopolization, or oligopolization of a few powerful companies or people.

The greater presence of raw energy resources in a market with technological and industrial capabilities is not conceivable in today's Capitalist world order. Today, private companies and regimes control raw energy resources for their own profit and power.
What kind of inventions could be produced and put on an open market in an Islamic state if these resources and the necessary facilities were made available for the public to invent and produce and the market opened to them, rather than everything tightly controlled for big corporations?
America is experiencing a serious decline in part because its dominated by corporate monopolies and oligopolies in so many industries that destroyed small independent upstarts and consolidated their respective markets around themselves.

For example, in this Capitalist world order, refining capacity for most nations is highly controlled by regimes or manipulative private companies, if not foreign companies. When oil prices were at their highest in USA in 2007-9 CE, the public via journalists and analysts discovered that America's oil refining capacity was methodically controlled by a few oil companies who bought out independent refiners and then closed and reduced their refining capacities in order to reduce supply that would drive up prices. The multitude of schemes and plots that private companies as well as foreign companies engage in for profit and manipulation of 'free market economy'. Not the least of which is getting Capitalist governments to engage in overseas wars for private company profit.

Islam has its own economic system which is NOT Capitalism.

and Allah certainly knows best of all.

[BgpOoGI2]

is it wrong?
every man for himself?
survival of the fittest?

All I have to say is capatilism is based on iRIba which is a sin bigger then Zina, homosexuality. That is enough of an answer.

[JeremyBalll]

All I have to say is capatilism is based on iRIba which is a sin bigger then Zina, homosexuality. That is enough of an answer.

bigger than homosexuality?? where do you get that from?

[BgpOoGI2]

bigger than homosexuality?? where do you get that from?

Abu Hurairah (RAA) said that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said: “Riba is of seventy different kinds, the least grave being equivalent to a man marrying (i.e., having sexual intercourse with) his own mother.” (Ibn Majah, Baihaqi)

having intercourse with your mother is more dangerous and a greater sin the homosexuality with no shadow of a doubt

Allah promises a war with those who deal with Riba that he had not done on any other sin including murder,zina and homosexuality

And if you do not, then be informed of a war [against you] from Allah and His Messenger. But if you repent, you may have your principal - [thus] you do no wrong, nor are you wronged.2:279

I think very clear the Riba is a greater sin than homosuality without a shed of a doubt although it my not like it on your eyes but in the sight of Allah it is.