[Nypbscao]

Can anyone give me any information on Deobandi Ulemah that currently still oppose the idea or opposed the creation of Pakistan when the concept was being discussed and if there were those that opposed it, were there any that were proponents of the concept of the Muslim state?

[Faungarne]

Can anyone give me any information on Deobandi Ulemah that currently still oppose the idea or opposed the creation of Pakistan when the concept was being discussed and if there were those that opposed it, were there any that were proponents of the concept of the Muslim state?

Salaam,

here is a very rare interview of Mufti Shafee Sahab, In which you will get information.

In this invaluable lecture Shaykh (Mufti) Shafi Usmani (RA) talk about various issues pertaining to his life such as:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA86vFqX8f4
-His childhood, education and teachers.
-Where Sheikh travelled troughout his life.
-How Darul Uloom Karachi was established?
-The involvement of the Ulamah in the establishment of Pakistan.
-About the sage Shaykhul-Hind Maulana Mahmoodul Hasan (RA).

[Agedprepdoock]

i dont know about ulema position, but i know of the reality position. pakistan was created under a LIE. the name of "islam" and "muslims" was used to create this state. but who did that?? it was a rafidhi named Mohammad ali jinnah. he used islam for his own political agendas. he wasnt even an islamist or believer, he considered Ataturk as a hero. ever since the cration of pakistan, shias have continued to rule over it. PPP and PML are both shia parties, founded by shias. musa khan, yahya khan, benzir bhutto, zulfiqur bhutto, zardari, jinnah, all are shias. and what have they done?? they have waged war against sunnis. they waged war in bengal, waged war in baloch, and today they wage war in NWFP and FATA. muslims like to make conspiracy theories that jews control america. well, that is is only a conspiracy theory. but it is FACT (although never made public) that shias control pakistan, syria and lebanon.

[tabcdyop]

i dont know about ulema position, but i know of the reality position. pakistan was created under a LIE. the name of "islam" and "muslims" was used to create this state. but who did that?? it was a rafidhi named Mohammad ali jinnah. he used islam for his own political agendas. he wasnt even an islamist or believer, he considered Ataturk as a hero. ever since the cration of pakistan, shias have continued to rule over it. PPP and PML are both shia parties, founded by shias. musa khan, yahya khan, benzir bhutto, zulfiqur bhutto, zardari, jinnah, all are shias. and what have they done?? they have waged war against sunnis. they waged war in bengal, waged war in baloch, and today they wage war in NWFP and FATA. muslims like to make conspiracy theories that jews control america. well, that is is only a conspiracy theory. but it is FACT (although never made public) that shias control pakistan, syria and lebanon.

Calm down lad, calm down.

There are shias in India too, and also in Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran etc

[zlopikanikanz]

we had couple of similar thread with a lot of posts present in the forum. please search.

[Agedprepdoock]

Calm down lad, calm down.

There are shias in India too, and also in Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran etc

thanks for stating the obvious, bro. but ppl alrdy know about iraq and iran. as for afghanistan and india, they are not in control. in pakistan however, they control the govt. and i wasnt rly raging or aggravated that i should calm down. just pointing out what few ppl ever do. all the islamic groups in pakistan become useless, if the one to be in power are rafidhi. sipah-e-sahaba, lashkar-e-jhangvi, and TTP are the only ones doing anything about it.

if i wouldnt have mentioned this fact that shia control pakistan, and shia created pakistan. doubt it would have even been brought up. you dont need ulema to realize that any shia state must be opposed and toppled. all jinnah did is use islam and decieve muslims (taqiya), to get into power. and with that he divided muslims into three separate nations. jinnah divided it into two, and his rafidhi successors bhutto and khan divided it into three. killed 3 million while doing so (in bengal alone).

[Nypbscao]

for your responses but I am not interested in the founder of Pakistan, Mohammad Ali Jinnah. some of the previous threads clarified my position on him. I wish to learn about the position of the Deoband Ulemah on the subject matter.

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...he-make-tawbah

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...h-and-Scholars

[Agedprepdoock]

i read your threads, alot of defence for Jinnah. it is possible that he may have converted, but his own family and community still regards him as a shia. Allah rly knows then what he died as. but when it comes to Taqiya, rafidhi are experts. A shia who has been around with muslims all his life will know what muslims do and believe in. if that shia wanted to follow-through with his inspirations, he could easily act sunni even tho he might not be. and if someones a fan of ataturk, he might just be an athiest. in that case, he wouldnt rly care if his funeral is conducted in sunni way, shia way, or buddhist way. but Allahu alam. but still cannot be denied pakistan in controlled by shias, even till this very day. but it is certainly true many ppl who love that man (jinnah) just want to prove him muslim. kind of like how many ppl try to prove Micheal jackson to be muslim, when he rly wasnt. his family and friends (some of who are actual muslims) are testiment to that.

[Agedprepdoock]

bro, do you have any comment on these. or any of the other brothers??
http://alturl.com/sbqbw
http://alturl.com/2zh4e

always seen that pic, and knew that he had funeral in shia way. but hearing about all this sunni way of funeral, it seem to match the 2nd post over there. he apparently had two funerals. one in sunni way and another in shia way. IF that were to be true, thats taqiya at its finest.

[tabcdyop]

Can anyone give me any information on Deobandi Ulemah that currently still oppose the idea or opposed the creation of Pakistan when the concept was being discussed and if there were those that opposed it, were there any that were proponents of the concept of the Muslim state?

From what I have read, the Deoband had the backing of the Indian National Congress at the time of Muslim Leages rise to power. Deoband was more into a collective unity as the muslims in Hindustan would have now totalled above 600 million : Including Pakistan muslims, Bangladesh and Indian muslims

Please someone corrct me or add mroe information if there are any errors above.

WASALAM

[SteantyjetMaw]

This thread's title is weird. Maybe I don't know something; probably.

[genna]

assalaamu alaikum W R W B,

my knowledge regarding this issue is very little. just posting because the OP seems to be genuinely interested in the issue.

on the issue of the independance of india and creation of pakistan as far as i know, Moulana Husain Ahmed Madani (RA) and Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi (RA) have had some significant differences of opinion. Moulana Madani's view was in support of a united India in which the muslims would work together with the hindus as a single nation. Moulana Thanvi (RA) on the other hand appears to have opposed the idea of working with the kuffar. Whether he actually supported the formation of Pakistan or not I do not know. It should be noted that though the views of these elders appear to be opposed to each other, they were sincere in their intentions. Their only aim was the welfare of Islam and the muslims of Hindustan. Some explanation regarding these differences can be found in Shaykhul Hadeeth Moulana Zakariyya (RA)'s book Al-I'tidaal.

A humble request to please correct me if I have made any mistakes. Also a request to all members to contribute positively, and to avoid harshness in our responses.

wassalaam

[cbUDaNFRu]

assalaamu alaikum W R W B,

my knowledge regarding this issue is very little. just posting because the OP seems to be genuinely interested in the issue.

on the issue of the independance of india and creation of pakistan as far as i know, Moulana Husain Ahmed Madani (RA) and Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi (RA) have had some significant differences of opinion. Moulana Madani's view was in support of a united India in which the muslims would work together with the hindus as a single nation. Moulana Thanvi (RA) on the other hand appears to have opposed the idea of working with the kuffar. Whether he actually supported the formation of Pakistan or not I do not know. It should be noted that though the views of these elders appear to be opposed to each other, they were sincere in their intentions. Their only aim was the welfare of Islam and the muslims of Hindustan. Some explanation regarding these differences can be found in Shaykhul Hadeeth Moulana Zakariyya (RA)'s book Al-I'tidaal.

A humble request to please correct me if I have made any mistakes. Also a request to all members to contribute positively, and to avoid harshness in our responses.

wassalaam

brother abdul_ahad, the first actual response to the OP out of about 10 posts.

Just to add to the above, there were major Ulama on both sides of this controversy. The likes of Allamah Shabbeer Ahmad Uthmani, Mufti Shafi Uthmani (as he states in the interview posted by bro Siraj), Sayyid Sulayman Nadwi and many others were with Hadrat Tahanwi in supporting its creation (just to note Hadrat Tahanwi passed away in 1941, befoer Pakistan was actually created; a lot changed between those years). As for those who opposed the idea of Pakistan, along with Hadrat Madani there was Mufti Kifayatullah Dehlawi, (i think) Shah Ataullah Bukhari, Mawlana Syed Muhammad Mian and others. As for those who were completely neutral and disassociated from politics, the re was Shaykh Zakariyya Kandahlawi and Shah Abdul Qadir Raipuri.

In this interview, Mufti Rafi Uthmani (the son of Hadhrat Mufti Shafi ) talks about it a bit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bconV_rLWUQ (from a pro-partition view)

A very good book on the topic of those who opposed the creation of Pakistan is The Prisoners of Malta (http://kitaabun.com/shopping3/produc...roducts_id=856). It's actually biographical accounts of the political activities of Hadrat Shaykh al-Hind and Hadrat Madani (and is therfore from an anti-partition view)

[tabcdyop]

Would things have been better or worse for muslims had there still only been India or as it is now?

[Hlennisal]

assalaamu alaikum W R W B,

my knowledge regarding this issue is very little. just posting because the OP seems to be genuinely interested in the issue.

on the issue of the independance of india and creation of pakistan as far as i know, Moulana Husain Ahmed Madani (RA) and Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi (RA) have had some significant differences of opinion. Moulana Madani's view was in support of a united India in which the muslims would work together with the hindus as a single nation. Moulana Thanvi (RA) on the other hand appears to have opposed the idea of working with the kuffar. Whether he actually supported the formation of Pakistan or not I do not know. It should be noted that though the views of these elders appear to be opposed to each other, they were sincere in their intentions. Their only aim was the welfare of Islam and the muslims of Hindustan. Some explanation regarding these differences can be found in Shaykhul Hadeeth Moulana Zakariyya (RA)'s book Al-I'tidaal.

A humble request to please correct me if I have made any mistakes. Also a request to all members to contribute positively, and to avoid harshness in our responses.

wassalaam

The issue of ulema opposing the pakistan was not because of working with kuffar.

Here is a speech of one such alim Moulana Abul Kalam Azad (Sunni Muslim). He tells why pakistan is against shariah. He also tells how Muslims could control the country and not allow hindus to overtake the country. But few shias were interested in only ruling the new country. He also tells the fate of pakistan in future.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4XVdNp694o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REPYdMw5r4Q

(if you can listen both speeches, you will understand how far these ulema have thought)

[peakyesno]

Would things have been better or worse for muslims had there still only been India or as it is now?

Isnt that like asking if things would have been better if those Sahaba r.am had not come down from the mountain to collect the booty in Uhud?

[tabcdyop]

Stop comparing the people in the current ummat with the Sahaba r.a.

[peakyesno]

Stop comparing the people in the current ummat with the Sahaba r.a.

or what? If we can take our deen from them, If we can deduce fiqhi rulings from them. then whats wrong with deducing whether the question being suggested a valid one or not?

So lets not make excuse, and tackle the scenario.

[Nypbscao]

brother abdul_ahad, a_muslim and unknown for your responses. I look into the book "The Prisoners Of Malta". Were there any Doebandi Ulemah who played any significant role in the creation of Pakistan?

[genna]

brother abdul_ahad, a_muslim and unknown for your responses. I look into the book "The Prisoners Of Malta". Were there any Doebandi Ulemah who played any significant role in the creation of Pakistan?

The following is quoted from the book "Eminent Ulema" published by Madrasah Arabia Islamia, Azaadville, on page 159 under the biography of Mufti Muhammed Shafi (RA)

"Besides his literary and religious endeavours, he also served the nation in the political arena. At the indication of Hazrath Thanwi (RA), he played a major role in the independence of Pakistan by openly supporting the Muslim League. Hazrath Thanwi (RA) chose him amongst other Ulema to reform and spiritually rectify the leaders of the Muslim League like Muhammed Ali Jinnah and others."

I suppose all the ulema mentioned so far played a significant role in the formation of Pakistan. Also I faintly remember reading somewhere that a Mufti (cant remember name) raised the national flag of Pakistan during the independance ceremony in East Pakistan (present Bangladesh)