[Zmniubqr]

I've been told there are only three groups that their blood are halal to be killed which are: apostates, an eye for an eye case and adultery. Is this true? And are there other groups of people aside from these three? like homosexuals?

I'm also wondering, as to why a husband is granted the permission to hit his wife if she's disobedient?
Is physical response really necessary? And can it be vice versa?

Hope I can clear all my doubts Thank you

[Poothevokprot]

I've been told there are only three groups that their blood are halal to be killed which are: apostates, an eye for an eye case and adultery. Is this true? And are there other groups of people aside from these three? like homosexuals?

I'm also wondering, as to why a husband is granted the permission to hit his wife if she's disobedient?
Is physical response really necessary? And can it be vice versa?

Hope I can clear all my doubts Thank you

Wife beating is not halal.

see:

http://seekersguidance.org/blog/2010...nity%E2%80%9D/

One opinion is apostates can be killed but it is very rare for the Islamic government to execute someone for this. Another opinion is that they cannot be killed and only Allah is the judge.

Homosexuals cannot be killed, however they should keep their sin private and hidden.

[FailiaFelay]

Wife beating is not halal.

see:

http://seekersguidance.org/blog/2010...nity%E2%80%9D/

Doing without the apologetic fatawa of the "neo-traditionalists" around "seekers guidance" and their selective quoting of Islamic Fiqh, Allah in the Qur'an dictates the conditions after which one may resort to a not-harmful physical punishment.

One opinion is apostates can be killed but it is very rare for the Islamic government to execute someone for this. Another opinion is that they cannot be killed and only Allah is the judge. This second "another opinion" is whose? That of modern liberal people? Which scholar ever used the modern relativistic slogan of "only Allah is to judge", when Allah himself ordered for the apostates to be killed?

Homosexuals cannot be killed, however they should keep their sin private and hidden. Actually, the penalty for homosexual acts is capital punishment. Under an Islamic government, obviously.

[HexcewlyRette]

A homosexual, meaning someone who confesses to engaging in sodomy (not just kissing, or mere desires of improper affections) or is spotted by 4 people engaging in sodomy, is killed by tossing them off a cliff.

i think a sodomizer could fit under the adulterers category allahua'lam.

note this does not mean every sodomizer (who meets the above criteria) will be killed just as every adulterer (who meets the same criteria) must be killed. i'm not sur eof the details but i've ehard from an alim that the qadi is not obligated to put them to death he can let them off with advice and warning.

and of course only Under an Islamic government, obviously.

[Lictimind]

Doing without the apologetic fatawa of the "neo-traditionalists" around "seekers guidance" and their selective quoting of Islamic Fiqh, Allah in the Qur'an dictates the conditions after which one may resort to a not-harmful physical punishment.



This second "another opinion" is whose? That of modern liberal people? Which scholar ever used the modern relativistic slogan of "only Allah is to judge", when Allah himself ordered for the apostates to be killed?



Actually, the penalty for homosexual acts is capital punishment. Under an Islamic government, obviously.

to umar for speaking the truth in the face of the new muslim apologetics of today. may Allah reward you immensely.

[Poothevokprot]

[QUOTE]

Doing without the apologetic fatawa of the "neo-traditionalists" around "seekers guidance" and their selective quoting of Islamic Fiqh, Allah in the Qur'an dictates the conditions after which one may resort to a not-harmful physical punishment.

Not harmful physical punishment? Why would you beat someone without causing any harm or pain? The rasul salal hu alahi wasalam said he never beat his wives and he is the best from amongst us, and he also said it is shameful to beat the wives and then to make love with them. If you mean giving a light tap on the wrist to indicate displeasure then this is not really beating by my definition.


This second "another opinion" is whose? That of modern liberal people? Which scholar ever used the telationship of rmodern retic slogan of "only Allah is to judge", when Allah himself ordered for the apostates to be killed? As you know Fiqh involves all kinds of opinions some strong and some weak, some held by a majority others held by a minority. The opinion I heard was refrenced by Hamza Ysusf in one of his videos, I do not know which one. Anyway the killing of apostates would make many people behave like hypocrites, and or the people would be like a thought police, making sure everyone had the correct beliefs in every detail. The whole point of eeman is that it is voluntary, not forced. If someone claims to have eeman only because they fear being executed for apostasy what is the point of this? I understand that it will prevent the spread of mischeif if people are prevented from spreading their kufr openly, however hypocrites can also cause allot of harm. I also understand that if the law says kill the apostate...it may not actually kill many or any apostates, but the fact that the laws says this indicates that it is a big crime to apostatise and therefore one should not go near it...it is a psychological deterrent, if anything.


Actually, the penalty for homosexual acts is capital punishment. Under an Islamic government, obviously. In the ideal Islamic government, but we have never had this in practice...there were always places where the government did not reach. If you are saying that in a future government we would be able to watch everyone and punish them, then it would be a very bad place to live where everyone looks over their shoulder against a powerful police state. On the other hand if Homosexuals keep their sins private and hidden no one will punish them because the government would need witnesses of 4 sane, adult and trustworthy and virtuous men...actually witnessing the act...which is a near impossibility. Again the fact that the law says this means that homosexuality is a grievous crime and one must not go near it.

Does anyone know how many homosexuals and apostates have been executed by 'Muslim' governments in the last 1400 years? I would be interested in finding out?

The hadiths which recommend the killing of homosexuals and apostates...can be interpreted to mean in particular times and contexts not always, it depends on many conditions. Just saying kill the apostate or homosexual does not really cover all the nuances and conditions and makes Islam appear to be retrograde and it is not, its laws just wants to preserve a well balanced human community...and its laws re-inforce to the human mind the importance of its limits and conditions so humans remain within the boundaries as far as possible, to cut off the means towards corruption.

Hamza Yusuf - Freedom of Religion, Verse of the Sword And Apostasy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naEj915VU20

Regarding apostasy see from 5 minutes where he speaks about it.

[MilenaMKB]

Kindly stop issuing home made fatwas.

This is the extract from Umdat As Salik:


08.0 APOSTASY FROM ISLAM (RIDDA)
(0: Leaving Islam is the ugliest form of unbelief
(kufr) and the worst. It may come about
through sarcasm, as when someone is told, "Trim
your nails, it is sunna," and he replies, "I would
not do it even if it were," as opposed to when some
circumstance exists which exonerates him of having
committed apostasy, such as when his tongue
runs away with him, or when he is quoting someone,
or says it out off ear.)

08.1 When a person who has reached puberty
and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he
deserves to be killed.

08.2 In such a case, it is obligatory for the
caliph (A: or his representative) to ask him to
repent and return to Islam. If he does, it is
accepted from him, but if he refuses, he is
immediately killed.

08.3 If he is a freeman. no one besides the
caliph or his representative may kill him. If someone
else kills him, the killer is disciplined
(0: for arrogating the caliph's prerogative
and encroaching upon his rights, as this is one of
his duties).

08.4 There is no indemnity for killing an apostate
(0: or any expiation, since it is killing someone
who deserves to die).

08.5 If he apostatizes from Islam and returns
several times, it (0: i.e. his return to Islam, which
occurs when he states the two Testifications of
Faith is accepted from him.
though he is disciplined .

08.6 (A: If a spouse in a consummated marriage apostatizes from Islam, the
couple are separated for a waiting period consisting of three intervals between
menstruations. If the spouse returns to Islam before the waiting period ends, the
marriage is not annulled but is considered to have continued the whole time.




pI7.2 Allah Most High says:
"Do you approach the males of humanity,
leaving the wives Allah has created for you?
But you are a people who transgress" (Koran
26:165-66).
pI7.3 The Prophet (Allah bless him and give
him peace) said:
(1) "Kill the one who sodomizes and the one
who lets it be done to him."
(2) "May Allah curse him who does what
Lot's people did."
(3) "Lesbianism by women is adultery between
them."


012.0 THE PENALTY FOR
FORNICATION OR SODOMY
012.1 The legal penalty is obligatorily imposed
upon anyone who fornicates or commits sodomy
(A: provided it is legally established when they;
(a) have reached puberty;
(b) are sane;
(c) and commit the act voluntarily;
no matter whether the person is a Muslim, nonMuslim
subject of the Islamic state, or someone
who has left Islam.

012.2 If the offender is someone with the capacity
to remain chaste, then he or she is stoned to
death , someone with the capacity to
remain chaste meaning anyone who has had sexual
intercourse (A: at least once) with their spouse in
a valid marriage, and is free, of age, and sane. A
person is not considered to have the capacity to
remain chaste if he or she has only had intercourse
in a marriage that is invalid, or is prepubescent at
the time of marital intercourse, or is someone
insane at the time of marital intercourse who subsequently
regains their sanity prior to committing
adultery.

If the offender is not someone with the capacity
to remain chaste, then the penalty consists of
being scourged one hundred stripes
and banished to a distance of at least 81 km./50 mi.
for one year.

[FailiaFelay]

[QUOTE=Abu Zakir;770846]

There are clear rules in islam. One can't just go around executing people. This creates anarchy. The applicaiton of any penalty is carried out qadhi (judge). As for hitting wife, do you know what it entails. One can't go around beating their disobidnet wife willynilly. There are seleveral steps and rules has to be applied before one takes this drastic measures. And even if it is taken, brusing ones wife is classed as oppression in Islam. Rasullah (SAW) said to the nearest efect Í am best among you because I am good to family/women folks'.
Islam caters for all situation.

Indeed brother, what you said is absolutely true.
But still, no one can go around and say that it's not permissible to give a slight not-harmful physical punishment to one's wife when that's mentioned in the very Qur'an - as modern day apologetics try to do.