[Avaindimik]

Theft is haram, it is taking a persons property without their consent or permission. If this is the case when governments force people to give them their property through taxation is this not theft and therefore haram?

[Dwerfsd]

I hope so.. Lol

[Avaindimik]

So why do Muslim scholars and Muslims generally not condemn this theft? Some might say well we benefit from the taxes because we get schools, hospitals, roads...but it is still theft and whether we benefit or not is debatable. Our taxes are used to pay interest on money borrowed by governments (meaning we pay billions and millions). As individuals we cannot go around forcing other people to give sadaqa or charity, nor can we force others to buy our products or services if they can buy these from others in a 'free' or 'open' market. Governments tax us and force us to accept their substandard services and products. The whole taxing system just gives lots of power to people who do not deserve it and people who abuse it and grab more power for themselves and their friends.

I hope so.. Lol

[AbraxiaAsus]

Read this thread: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...82562-Ron-Paul
No answers per se, but relevant.

[smirnoffdear]

the brother has decided to take the offensive in this thread, I was about to ask a scholar whether avoiding taxation and not documenting your business is a theft or not, but Abu Zakir has taken the battle into enemy terrain, Keep it up brother

[horaAppagob]

Well, from a economics perspective ther are definitely areas where a tax is beneficial, i.e it returns to the masses in the form of some benefit. But I do remember about income tax in US is pretty much a theft even according to their legal system. There is no basis for it in their constitution not any authoritative case findings for it.

[smirnoffdear]

JazakAllah Maulvi saab, what do you say about avoiding income tax in Pakistan, you are familiar with the system here I suppose...

[horaAppagob]

JazakAllah Maulvi saab, what do you say about avoiding income tax in Pakistan, you are familiar with the system here I suppose...

use the legal measures of tax rebates, deferal, etc and not put oneself in a position of being dishonoured..

[smirnoffdear]

use the legal measures of tax rebates, deferal, etc and not put oneself in a position of being dishonoured..

I understand that, but if someone can eliminate the risk of being dishonoured and avoid income tax, what will be the shari standing of doing such a thing, is it allowed in Islam? I, for knowledge's sake, am interested to know the shari ruling..

[Nidsstese]

If its indeed a theft, I cab think of the only reason why Ulema do not speak against it, is to avoid people from getting into trouble by not paying. Governments are very quick and hard to persecute individuals who have tax dues and do not pay. They can be heavily fined and jailed or both.

Again if this is categorised as a theft in Islam, then we should be able to use the interest that gets generated in bank accounts to pay for it, however, there is fatwa against paying taxes with interest money. So in a sense Ulemas do not believe that paying taxes is a theft!

[horaAppagob]

it will be very hard to say. The concept of taxation is not against shariah hence I guess it will depend on the scenario. If the taxation is a complete zulm, then evading may be an option. But I would not take chances with that...

[smirnoffdear]

JazakAllah Maulana...I will post my related questions on this thread later , I hope knowledgeable members will keep on contributing to this thread

[johnbeller]

it will be very hard to say. The concept of taxation is not against shariah hence I guess it will depend on the scenario. If the taxation is a complete zulm, then evading may be an option. But I would not take chances with that...

If one becomes a citizen of a country, isn't there a contract implicit in this, which is to obey all laws and break none, so tax evasion, which is a major crime, would be breaking this contract? As you said, taxation isn't against shari'ah so we should pay our taxes as to not break any local laws.

I have also heard that we can use the money from interest to do so. Of course this is interest that cannot be avoided, since purposefully gaining interest is a major sin.

[BILBONDER]

Well, from a economics perspective ther are definitely areas where a tax is beneficial, i.e it returns to the masses in the form of some benefit. But I do remember about income tax in US is pretty much a theft even according to their legal system. There is no basis for it in their constitution not any authoritative case findings for it.

Maulana Sahab,

i don't see anything returning to Pakistanis -- this is the specialty of zardari tax, it only sucks the blood of common people.

i read the following HAdith in one place, what does this mean?

"The collector of taxes will not enter heaven" (Ahmad)

[Gudronich]

Maulana Sahab,

i don't see anything returning to Pakistanis -- this is the specialty of zardari tax, it only sucks the blood of common people.

i read the following HAdith in one place, what does this mean?

"The collector of taxes will not enter heaven" (Ahmad)

This why Pakistanis should try to avoid paying tax as much as possible. I think, being good Musims, most Pakistanis are not paying any taxes anyway.

[Avaindimik]

If one becomes a citizen of a country, isn't there a contract implicit in this, which is to obey all laws and break none, so tax evasion, which is a major crime, would be breaking this contract? As you said, taxation isn't against shari'ah so we should pay our taxes as to not break any local laws.

We who live in the west pay taxes against our will...our taxes can go towards making weapons that kill other innocent people, they can go towards paying interest on the debt taken out by the government (AKA The National Debt). Will we not be asked by Allah swt why we continued to pay to the criminals in power who cause bloodshed?

A contract when being made needs to be entered into with the full consent of all parties and with full disclosure of the conditions. One cannot be forced to enter into a contract, people are either born in a country and are not bound by any social contract with the government, or they immigrate into a country. When people immigrate the government can impose their contract on someone. But we have to ask by what authority does any government rule over its people? In so called Democratic countries it is supposed to be the 'will of the people'. Simplisticly what ever the majority votes for is the law. So in theory if a majority of robbers vote to steal from the minority of non robbers they can and it is all legal under Democratic laws. The Government itself is a gang of robbers who fill their own pockets but they make noises to make it look like they are serving the people. Whoever owns the government owns the country and in democratic countries it is the bankers who own the government, so they own the country. Our taxes go to the bankers and other very rich people.

The Muslim scholars if they told the mass of Muslims that 'taxation is theft'...would give people the idea that it is theft and they would therefore resist paying...if millions of people refused to pay what would the government do? It would collapse.

When governments tax they waste allot of the money, here in the UK, local councils (local government and the municipal level) spend tax money on promoting lesbian and homosexual lifestyles, they pay for elected councillors to go abroad and millions are poured into useless urban projects which improve the city streets only to need it doing again after a few years.

When governments take taxes away from people and waste it on their own selected projects they are preventing individuals from choosing their own economic decisions...if my taxes were left with me, I may have been able to open my own business and I would serve the community better than the bureaucrats in government...who are not even part of the community.


Watch this video it is only three and a half minutes long:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG4jh...feature=relmfu

It explains the problems with taxation. The people in government and the private corporations who have close links with governments and who get government contracts and welfare will even create wars so they can profit. The War on Terror boosted the revenue of many private companies linked with defence contracts. Muslims and non Muslims should refuse to pay their taxes to these criminal governments we should stop giving them the power to run and control our lives. Allah swt created us free...He did not say we have to obey the Government in all its tyrannies and oppressions.

[Teligacio]

Please do not just take the literal meaning of the hadith
"The collector of taxes will not enter heaven" (sunan Abu Daud & musnad Ahmad)

Tax collection is NOT entirely impermissible. The establishment of tax collection by a government is according to the shariah tenant known as "masalih al-mursalah", meaning a new ruling that is proven to be of importance and benefit to the masses even though it may not be mentioned specifically in alQuran and asSunnah.

basically, the hadith condemns the taxes which are collected for the purpose of increasing the wealth of a tyrant ruler and his associates and to oppress the people. The people's obligations (huquq) in the taxes are not returned/fulfilled as are supposed to.

wallaahu a'lam.