[tefraxKedWere]

Is there a difference between zionism and judaism? Is there a difference between a zionist and a jew? Are all Jews Zionist, hence, we should not like them?

[boXGWf04]

Salaam alaikum,

There definitely is a difference between Judaism and Zionism. Judaism is a religion; it is strictly monotheistic (they believe in ALLAH alone, Who had no partners), they consider Moses (as) the greatest prophet, and their holy book is the Torah. Zionism is a political movement that believes that the land of Israel/Palestine should be a Jewish state. There are plenty of people that follow Judaism but are not Zionist; there are lots of Jews that very publicly call for Palestinian rights and freedoms, and there are even entire sects of Judaism (for example, the Satmars, a branch of ultra-Orthodox Judaism) that don't support the State of Israel and call for the return of the land to Palestinians. There are also plenty of Zionists that are not Jewish (for example, there are quite a few evangelical Christians that are strong supporters of Israel). Therefore, one cannot assume that because one is Jewish that they are also Zionist, or because they are Zionist that they are Jewish.

Hope this helps clarify, Insha'Allah.

[6M8PJigS]

Salaam alaikum,

There definitely is a difference between Judaism and Zionism. Judaism is a religion; it is strictly monotheistic (they believe in ALLAH alone, Who had no partners), they consider Moses (as) the greatest prophet, and their holy book is the Torah. Zionism is a political movement that believes that the land of Israel/Palestine should be a Jewish state. There are plenty of people that follow Judaism but are not Zionist; there are lots of Jews that very publicly call for Palestinian rights and freedoms, and there are even entire sects of Judaism (for example, the Satmars, a branch of ultra-Orthodox Judaism) that don't support the State of Israel and call for the return of the land to Palestinians. There are also plenty of Zionists that are not Jewish (for example, there are quite a few evangelical Christians that are strong supporters of Israel). Therefore, one cannot assume that because one is Jewish that they are also Zionist, or because they are Zionist that they are Jewish.

Hope this helps clarify, Insha'Allah.

Salam alikum sister,
useful explanation, thank you.
I was also thinking in a way call for Jewish state could have positive influence also for call for islamic state .... from perspective to oppose atheist, it is call for religious state.... poor christians they have given up very quickly - lost themself in cloud of western liberalism...

[sensation]

Well, I'm sort of both, so let me see if I can answer this. You don't have to be Jewish to be a Zionist and you don't have to be a Zionist to be a Jew. Sushilover is almost 100% correct. Now the degree to which Israel should be a Jewish state is more of a complex debate among Jews (and among Israelis). The government remains mostly secular and there's representation from non-Jews in the legislature (Knesset). The most important tenet of Zionism is espoused in the Israeli national anthem, Hatkivah - "to be a free people in our own land." And technically, in order to be a Zionist - you should live in the area of ancient Israel. If you support Israel and don't live there, technically, you're not a Zionist, but a pro-Zionist. Note that this does not necessarily mean anything bad for Muslims or Christians.

As for whom you should like or dislike, I cannot answer that. I wish you would like or dislike people based on what is in their heart - not on the labels they or other people put on them. Some people say "Zionist" and mean it like an insult. Some people say "Muslim" or "Jew" and mean it like an insult. I try not to judge people until I can see things from their perspective.

I hope we can all speak to each other like humans first, whether in Dar al Islam or in Dar el Amn.

Is there a difference between zionism and judaism? Is there a difference between a zionist and a jew? Are all Jews Zionist, hence, we should not like them?

[elects]

many orthodox conservative haredi jews opposed zionism...

zionism is just like Modernism in Islam.....almost same concept
the core is Liberalism, secularism etc

look how the zionist allowed Homos to parade in their land, and pissing of the conservative Jews...

[daguy]

There are many Jews who are actually Jews that practice their religion, not just Jewish by name who actually even support the fact that our profit Mohamad saws was spoken about in their jewish texts as the final or last profit.
There are many Zionist Jews who do not practice the Jewish religion & hide under the jewish religion in public, but practice the satanic religion in cults.. Oprah Winfrey had a special on it with children who ran away from these so called Jewish families.

[jessyhalm]

Many Zionist leaders believe in the 'noble lie' and are kind of machiavellian, many neo-conservertives involved in American politics are Zionists and very influential. The man who coined the phrase Axis of Evil in one of the Bush speeches was a Zionist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_lie

Interesting that sakenraz compares Zionism to Islamic modernists like the Ikhwani Muslimeen, I think this is accurate. The Muslim modernists have also been influenced heavily by Fascism see:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n24944818/

[Ephejvll]

Neturei Karta moved out of Jerusalem one year after the formation of Israel as they believed the zionist israel is not the promised Israel state (which would be setup by the messiah). Their chief at the time was the second highest rabbi in Jerusalem. Jews were not allowed to have their own state/country until the coming of the messiah. Zionist movements proclaimed that what they are doing right now is preparing the state for the coming of the messiah, but what happen on the ground is just a bunch of businessmen taking advantage of the religious sentiments by selling real estate properties and all (from the land grabbing) above market price in israel (refer to some demonstration in tel aviv a few months back). Not to mention that those real property projects are subsidized by the US and israel government in the first place.

www.nkusa.org

I think they are among one of the more visible Orthodox Jews organizations that openly opposed to the zionism.

Allah Knows Best.

[daguy]

Assalamu alaikum brother.
Please elaborate on the ottomans & the zionists.
I know nothing of this and would like to know more.

[adultcheee]

Is there a difference between zionism and judaism? Is there a difference between a zionist and a jew? Are all Jews Zionist, hence, we should not like them?

Judaism = a religion of the Book.

Zionism = a racist Jewish nationalist ideology that was originally opposed by Orthodox Jewish scholars.

__________________________________________________ ________________________________________________

Judaism is very definitely not the same as Zionism, but most Jews today are either fanatical or more moderate Zionists.

The interesting thing is that someone is a Jew based on their mother being a Jew - they don't even have to believe in God to be called a Jew.

Most of the Israeli population and their international supporters believe in their race only and have largely rejected God, they are more inclined to vague notions and Freemasonry than any real religious belief. This being why the Zionist colony that calls itself "Israel" is full of disco-bars, nudity and free sex and why sex mad Hollywood is full of 'Jewish' Zionists.

[sensation]

The Ottoman Empire ruled Palestine for a very long time - and Jews, Muslims, Kurds all co-existed in the Ottoman empire. (I'm also half Armenian, and we didn't fare quite so well, but that's another story, not necessarily connected with Islam). Of course, for political reasons Israel (like America) has never officially called it genocide. Turkey was too great a trading partner for Israel, and too important a strategic partner for the US. That may change, as the Knesset is reconsidering the question... particularly as they move closer to the Armenian Republic and further away from Turkey.

Political Zionism doesn't have much, other than preferential protection, for Judaism itself. Israeli courts aren't based on Halacha, but on civil law, law which draws more from British Common Law than anything else. It's more a Parliamentary Democracy than a Jewish state, per se. The key difference, of course, is that it offers preferential immigration rights to Jews or their recent descendants. The vast majority of Zionists believe that free exercise of ANY religion is important in the modern state of Israel.

As for not believing in God to be a Jew, technically that's true. It's more important to follow law in Judaism than pure belief. Also, as for "homos" - yes, Zionists also give freedom to other walks of life you might not find palatable. As do we here in NYC, but we also have many mosques, schools and believe America should be considered a safe place for Muslims.

[sensation]

Oh, also, for a little more information - there are many branches of Zionism. The two biggest branches are Labor and Liberal (also called general) Zionism - and they most heavily influenced the constitution of the state of Israel. The first is more socialist and secular, the second more old-fashioned liberal democracy.

On the right, we have Revisionist or Nationalist Zionism and Religious Zionism. Originally, they stood for a larger, more aggressive Israel state, some of whom advocated a state called Greater Israel, which involved far more land than Israel (even including the disputed territories) now encompasses. But they have mostly dropped this goal having been subsumed into the Likud party. Religious Zionists are modern orthodox practitioners of Judaism, but believe it's a Jew's duty to settle as much of the Holy Land as possible. Some of them might be the settlers you might know and might dislike. However, not all of them are like some of the more difficult settlers you've seen on teevee. If you want to see what they actually live like, there's a really good Israeli soap opera called Srugim. Israel's media is *very* secular, and a show about the religious is very rare, if not unique.

There are some smaller movements within Zionism - like Green Zionism (environmentalists) and post-Zionists, who believe Israel should just slowly abandon its Jewish identity and simply be a secular democracy. A couple others I'm sure I'm forgetting. I hope this helps!

[hereiamguy]

^^
you may be one of the rare civilized non muslims that frequent this forum.
thank you for the information.

[sensation]

Well thank you for the compliment! I think the lack of civilized behavior is more a symptom of forums in general, not this one in particular. I've seen some arguments about James Bond get pretty nasty.

On Jewish forums, we also are kind of a magnet to anti-semitism or bullying or just plain rudeness. I guess this is just how some people get their jollies. Happy to be of service.

^^
you may be one of the rare civilized non muslims that frequent this forum.
thank you for the information.

[Kubasarika]

It was the Jews exiled from Andulicia (once it felt to the Visgoth, demise of muslim rule) who wrote come to ottomon territory because of the favour they enjoyed under the khilafat (Shariah based govrnance) of ottomon. This is long before existance of secularised k.ataturk's Turkey!!

Melbourn,Could you please delet my comment from your post nos 9.
Allahualam

[sensation]

Oh, there were a few Jewish treks from Spain eastward. Sometimes it was a change from one Caliphate to another. Some Emirs were better to Jews than others. Sharia, like any legal system, matters more in how it's applied than its intended righteousness. God is perfect, we aren't. There were times when the Caliphate in the Iberian peninsula made it very difficult for Jews, so they went off to Cairo - which was a great center of learning at the time. One of our most famous philosophers, doctors and religious scholars, Moses Maimonides, was a Jew born in Muslim Spain and went off to Egypt. I'm not precisely certain if he was on the run, but many were...

Of course there was a mass migration of both Jews and Muslim Europeans and North Africans with the Inquisition - some ended up in Greece, Turkey or North African. I lived for a short time with a family of Tunisian Jews in France who were related to the Jews who left during the Spanish Inquisition.

There were Jewish populations throughout history in the area of ancient and modern Israel... generally faring better under Muslim rule (either from the Ottomans or any other Muslim) than under a particularly disastrous and short Crusader rule. Until the early 20th century, when tensions between Jews and Muslims in the area flared and waned to where we are today.

It was the Jews exiled from Andulicia (once it felt to the Visgoth, demise of muslim rule) who wrote come to ottomon territory because of the favour they enjoyed under the khilafat (Shariah based govrnance) of ottomon. This is long before existance of secularised k.ataturk's Turkey!!

Melbourn,Could you please delet my comment from your post nos 9.
Allahualam

[sensation]

I'm afraid you're getting bad information. There are no satanic cults. We don't really spend too much time talking about the enemy. There may be cults of celebrity in Tel Aviv, where they might see too many movies.

Muhammad, pbuh, came very long after the publication and canonization of the Tanakh.

If you want to see seculars rock out, there's a good comedy called Mesudarim.

[adultcheee]

I'm afraid you're getting bad information. There are no satanic cults. We don't really spend too much time talking about the enemy. There may be cults of celebrity in Tel Aviv, where they might see too many movies.

Muhammad, pbuh, came very long after the publication and canonization of the Tanakh.

If you want to see seculars rock out, there's a good comedy called Mesudarim.

which post has satanic cults in? I missed that one.

Turks often see the Donoma as a satanic cult that spawned several Islamophobes including Attaturk.

[adultcheee]

There are many Jews who are actually Jews that practice their religion, not just Jewish by name who actually even support the fact that our profit Mohamad saws was spoken about in their jewish texts as the final or last profit.
There are many Zionist Jews who do not practice the Jewish religion & hide under the jewish religion in public, but practice the satanic religion in cults.. Oprah Winfrey had a special on it with children who ran away from these so called Jewish families.

Ah yes you mean this one.

[adultcheee]

We don't really spend too much time talking about the enemy.

I guess that depends on whether you are a member of the Jewish Defense League or an international Mossad volunteer (sayanim) or not?

http://www.jdl.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RUjar55CvE

Muhammad, pbuh, came very long after the publication and canonization of the Tanakh.

I think they were perhaps talking about this type of thing.

Al-Husayn ibn Sailam was a Jewish rabbi in Yathrib who was widely respected and honoured by the people of the city even by those who were not Jewish. He was known for his piety and goodness, his upright conduct and his truthfulness.
Al-Husayn lived a peaceful and gentle life but he was serious, purposeful and organized in the way he spent his time. For a fixed period each day, he would worship, teach and preach in the temple.
Then he would spend some time in his orchard, looking after date palms, pruning and pollinating. Thereafter, to increase his understanding and knowledge of his religion, he would devote himself to the study of the Torah..

In this study, it is said he was particularly struck by some verses of the Torah which dealt with the coming of a Prophet who would complete the message of previous Prophets. Al-Husayn therefore took an immediate and keen interest when he heard reports of the appearance of a Prophet in Makkah.

He said: "When I heard of the appearance of the Messenger of God, peace be on him, I began to make enquiries about his name, his genealogy, his characteristics, his time and place and I began to compare this information with what is contained m our books. From these enquiries, I became convinced about the authenticity of his prophethood and I affirmed the truth of his mission. However, I concealed my conclusions from the Jews. I held my tongue...

Then came the day when the Prophet, peace be on him, left Makkah and headed for Yathrib. When he reached Yathrib and stopped at Quba, a man came rushing into the city, calling out to people and announcing the arrival of the Prophet. At that moment, I was at the top of a palm tree doing some work.
My aunt, Khalidah bint al-Harith, was sitting under the tree. On hearing the news, I shouted:

'Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! (God is Great! God is Great!' When my aunt heard my takbir, she remonstrated with me: 'May God frustrate you...By God, if you had heard that Moses was coming you would not have been more enthusiastic.' 'Auntie, he is really, by God, the 'brother' of Moses and follows his religion. He was sent with the same mission as Moses.' She was silent for a while and then said: 'Is he the Prophet about whom you spoke to us who would be sent to confirm the truth preached by previous (Prophets) and complete the message of his Lord?' 'Yes,' I replied.

Without any delay or hesitation, I went out to meet the Prophet. I saw crowds of people at his door. I moved about in the crowds until I reached close to him. The first words I heard him say were:
'O people! Spread peace...Share food...Pray during the night while people (normally) sleep... and you will enter Paradise in peace...' I looked at him closely. I scrutinized him and was convinced that his face was not that of an imposter. I went closer to him and made the declaration of faith that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. The Prophet turned to me and asked: 'What is your name?' 'Al-Husayn ibn Sailam,' I replied.
'Instead, it is (now) Abdullah ibn Sallam,' he said (giving me a new name). 'Yes,' I agreed. 'Abdullah ibn Sailam (it shall be). By Him who has sent you with the Truth, I do not wish to have another name after this day.'


Source: http://www.streetdawah.com/books/Com...%20Prophet.pdf