[XzBZB2UV]

No it is not a matter of Imaan/Deen. The Gulf Arabs have been supporting and aiding US/NATO wars against muslims for a very long time - most recently Afghanistan and Iraq.

So what?
If some Gulf Arabs leaders commit kufr then that's not kufr anymore?..
Are Gulf Arabs ma'sumin or proof in the Shari'ah?...

It IS about Din; Islam is also politics, not just a "religion".

I'm really amazed at the lack of political understanding and lack of consciousness of the ideological-political level of Islam amongst many Muslims.. :-(

[XzBZB2UV]

Then they're kuffar if they did that. It is an issue of deen.

http://www.islamibayanaat.com/MQ/Eng...ge-174-229.pdf < read the Tafsir of 5:51.

brother.

[cenRealliat]

It is disingenuous of you to bring the Deobandi/Barelvi issue into this thread. Many Deobandis disagree with Ml. Fazlur Rehman and this is a political issue, rather than a religious one. Deobandis disagree with each other on many things, especially when it comes to politics and things besides the deen.


Yes, both are Deobandis but both are not united because of differences in politics.

How can you separate Politics from Deen?

Arms will be supplied on the resumption of NATO supplies, these arms will kill Muslims - if this is not a religious issue than what issue is this?

[levitratestimon]

How can you separate Politics from Deen?

Arms will be supplied on the resumption of NATO supplies, these arms will kill Muslims - if this is not a religious issue than what issue is this?

I think we're being myopic here and making takfeer of the Mawlana prematurely. Ml. Fazlur Rehman is still an 'alim, regardless of what we may disagree with him on and to suggest that he has simply given a blank check to Americans to kill Muslims in Afghanistan is being unjust. As I said before, he may have made concessions where drone attacks would stop in exchange for opening the route (which is what looks to be the case). If Ml. Fazlur Rehman had not cooperated, then the this concession most likely would also not have been granted and the supply lines would have opened without his support and without the clause that would stop drone attacks.

I don't think it is a religious issue because as I mentioned, then Muslim Americans are also fair game for takfeer. I'm not talking about immigrants, I'm talking about American citizens, who pledge themselves to the country and many have shown support for the army or are in the army themselves. Furthermore, it can even be seen as two kufr entities dealing with one another, with a Muslim member trying to find a balance between having all Muslims killed or few Muslims killed when there is no option available to have no Muslims killed.

[rolex-buy]

is this fazalur rahman a braiwali?

nice try

[rolex-buy]

But the question is, after all the violence and trashing the US has done, why do they keep allowing these Crusaders back-in? What has the US/NATO offered these leaders?

a westerner non-muslim (presumably) told me once the NATO supplies come with lucrative tons of cash for the governments who allow their lands to be used. figure the rest yourself

[rolex-buy]

I think we're being myopic here and making takfeer of the Mawlana prematurely. Ml. Fazlur Rehman is still an 'alim, regardless of what we may disagree with him on and to suggest that he has simply given a blank check to Americans to kill Muslims in Afghanistan is being unjust. As I said before, he may have made concessions where drone attacks would stop in exchange for opening the route (which is what looks to be the case). If Ml. Fazlur Rehman had not cooperated, then the this concession most likely would also not have been granted and the supply lines would have opened without his support and without the clause that would stop drone attacks.

aoa,
never saw it that way. that is some great insight you have.

[rolex-buy]

why is he called 'diesel' btw?he is still an alim who should be respected

[Hammaduersnes]

I think we're being myopic here and making takfeer of the Mawlana prematurely. Ml. Fazlur Rehman is still an 'alim, regardless of what we may disagree with him on and to suggest that he has simply given a blank check to Americans to kill Muslims in Afghanistan is being unjust. As I said before, he may have made concessions where drone attacks would stop in exchange for opening the route (which is what looks to be the case). If Ml. Fazlur Rehman had not cooperated, then the this concession most likely would also not have been granted and the supply lines would have opened without his support and without the clause that would stop drone attacks.

I don't think it is a religious issue because as I mentioned, then Muslim Americans are also fair game for takfeer. I'm not talking about immigrants, I'm talking about American citizens, who pledge themselves to the country and many have shown support for the army or are in the army themselves. Furthermore, it can even be seen as two kufr entities dealing with one another, with a Muslim member trying to find a balance between having all Muslims killed or few Muslims killed when there is no option available to have no Muslims killed.

WASHINGTON: The US officials have claimed that the United States had no intentions to stop drone strikes on Pakistani soil.

The US newspaper, citing officials, has claimed that drones strikes will continue against militants and their hideouts in Pakistan.

Meanwhile, the White House is considering issuing an official apology over Salala check post attack that resulted in the martyrdom of 24 Pakistani soldiers.

The joint sitting of the Parliament Thursday approved the recommendations presented by the Parliamentary Committee on National Security (PCNS) in connection with the terms of engagement with US and matters relating to the national security of Pakistan.

[MYMcvBgl]

I think we're being myopic here and making takfeer of the Mawlana prematurely....

Exactly, if he's a deobandi alim then there must be great hikmah in his decision to let the americans carry guns and weapons to it's front lines to kill muslims.

and what is this hikmah? well let me tell you $$$$$$$$$$$$ ..............oh seems my keyboard's not working, keeps bringing up dollar signs, anyway, gotta go,

salam

[Hammaduersnes]

I don't think it is a religious issue because as I mentioned, then Muslim Americans are also fair game for takfeer. I'm not talking about immigrants, I'm talking about American citizens, who pledge themselves to the country and many have shown support for the army or are in the army themselves.

as salamlaikym

there's a difference between living in a country as tax paying citizens, (altho imam awlaqi was of the opinion, those who support killings of muslims with their tax money are also combatants, and muslims should make hijrat) and intentionally allowing the transport of materials through your land that you know will aide NATO soldiers in killing more Afghan Muslims, they don't have to be weapons, but lets face it, the US knows the pakistani parliaments in their hands now, they'll be transporting weapons and ammunition too (which are not allowed in the agreement yet), but it's only a matter of time.

However since you're not talking about immigrants and about American citizens who are part of a kaafir army fighting muslims, that's clear cut kufr. There's no excuse.

Furthermore, it can even be seen as two kufr entities dealing with one another, with a Muslim member trying to find a balance between having all Muslims killed or few Muslims killed when there is no option available to have no Muslims killed. Nothing in the deal indicates "few muslims killed". The drone strikes will continue. If excuses need to be made for maulana, then it makes sense he was blackmailed into giving his consent the night before when zardari invited maulana over. Of course that doesnt mean ppl jump to making takfeer, but it remains a religious issue.

[Hammaduersnes]

Exactly, if he's a deobandi alim then there must be great hikmah in his decision to let the americans carry guns and weapons to it's front lines to kill muslims.

and what is this hikmah? well let me tell you $$$$$$$$$$$$ ..............oh seems my keyboard's not working, keeps bringing up dollar signs, anyway, gotta go,

salam

I think you're being needlessly harsh this has nothing to do with deobandis, since deobandis dont support this stance, reason why m. sami ul haq and other deobandi parties are now under the umbrella of DPC.

[levitratestimon]

WASHINGTON: The US officials have claimed that the United States had no intentions to stop drone strikes on Pakistani soil.

The US newspaper, citing officials, has claimed that drones strikes will continue against militants and their hideouts in Pakistan.

Meanwhile, the White House is considering issuing an official apology over Salala check post attack that resulted in the martyrdom of 24 Pakistani soldiers.

The joint sitting of the Parliament Thursday approved the recommendations presented by the Parliamentary Committee on National Security (PCNS) in connection with the terms of engagement with US and matters relating to the national security of Pakistan.

Then I can't really find any excuse because I thought the entire reason the supply lines were blocked off was because Pakistani army personnel were killed by a drone strike.

@Saqqib_Ali:

There's a difference between criticism and takfeer. If you didn't have an axe to grind, it would be obvious.

[Gudronich]

As salam alaikum

Brothers defending the Pakistani Parliement's decision to reopen Nato supply lines,

By what standard are you making your position? And how will that hold on the Day of Judgement?

[iqxdvjgmat]

There is no justification for aiding the disbelievers in war...zero. There is no justification for reopening the Nato supply lines....Since when has the gulf been setting the standards of islam? There is more islam in the UK than in the gulf....

[Gudronich]

There is no justification for aiding the disbelievers in war...zero. There is no justification for reopening the Nato supply lines....Since when has the gulf been setting the standards of islam? There is more islam in the UK than in the gulf....

brother.

Here is one possible course of action for Pakistan:

1) Dissolution of the Parliement on grounds of its complete abandonment of Islam. Any in the Parliement who repent and denounce their vote should be looked at as Muslims again, but the parliementary body and its parties should be silent.

2) Once Zardari signs this 'act', call for Zardari and his cabinet to step down immediately.

3) Those generals who have openly approved of reopening the supply lines should be considered unfit for duty and forced to resigned.

4) All kufar military forces in Pakistan should be asked to leave immediately. The embassies of those military forces (ie. USA, Britain, Nato) should be asked to close.

5) Any military forces associated with drones or maintaining foreign kufr military bases should be forced to surrender their duties.

In reality, it would have been better for someone in the parliement to resign in protest rather than sign on to this act. It is openly against Islam, as is allowing drone strikes on Muslims by kufar forces.

[Gudronich]

Zardari should step down simply because he breathes air, btw. He doesn't need to sign that act.

If parliementarians are of the opinion that Pakistan cannot function without American aid which would be allocated in reciprocation to opening supply lines, then Pakistan is no longer a "sovereign" autonomous nation and it under a form of occupation. In which case, the entire system must be dissolved and built anew from its foundation.


From teh preamble of the Pakistan constitutution:

Wherein the integrity of the territories of the Federation, its independence and all its rights, including its sovereign rights on land, sea and air, shall be safeguarded


So that the people of Pakistan may prosper and attain their rightful and honoured place amongst the nations of the World and make their full contribution towards international peace and progress and happiness of humanity :

Pakistan's dependency on foreign aid IS a compromise of its autonomy, and its reopening of supply lines allowing for Nato's war on Muslims, from a purely logical angle, is in open violation of the Pakistan constitution which is supposedly the foundation of the republic.

In reality, the constitution, the republic, the autonomy of the state, AND OF COURSE ISLAM are all compromised to serve Nato and America. It is unconscionable.

[rolex-buy]

Zardari should step down simply because he breathes air, btw. He doesn't need to sign that act.

If parliementarians are of the opinion that Pakistan cannot function without American aid which would be allocated in reciprocation to opening supply lines, then Pakistan is no longer a "sovereign" autonomous nation and it under a form of occupation. In which case, the entire system must be dissolved and built anew from its foundation.


From teh preamble of the Pakistan constitutution:



Pakistan's dependency on foreign aid IS a compromise of its autonomy, and its reopening of supply lines allowing for Nato's war on Muslims, from a purely logical angle, is in open violation of the Pakistan constitution which is supposedly the foundation of the republic.

In reality, the constitution, the republic, the autonomy of the state, AND OF COURSE ISLAM are all compromised to serve Nato and America. It is unconscionable.

[JulieSmithdccd]

9/11 was a significant incident. Even if it was orchestrated by themselves its implications were serious enough that it was difficult for Pakistan to face up the US. What has happened can not be reversed but by now enough damage has been done to Muslim society that the time is ripe for each Muslim country to pull themselves up assert themselves.

Its the decisions they are taking in the political sphere which are ruining Muslim nations, its people devastated and ruined through more violence, spilt-blood and more killing. Destroyed infrastructure, literally sending countries and peoples decades back in their development and opening-up age-old sectarian rifts by supporting one-side against another. We need to learn from this otherwise we are going to be in a dark age full of strife for a very long time.

I have said it earlier and it is worth repeating. Is there no one in that country who has the guts to say that enough is enough and the grievances that US had with anybody do not warrant any further presence and no further action.

a westerner non-muslim (presumably) told me once the NATO supplies come with lucrative tons of cash for the governments who allow their lands to be used. figure the rest yourself

Unfortunately entirely believable for that is American modus operandi (inherited from the British) - bribe your way through. I wish we from the Indian sub-continent were not that amenable to bribe. Unfortunately no one is doing anything about it. Even in religious repertoire it is listed as one of the grave (major) sins that should be avoided. What is required is a thorough movement to eradicate this plague.

[Hammaduersnes]

The DPC are the only religious group opposing Nato resumption right now.

9/11 was a significant incident. Even if it was orchestrated by themselves its implications were serious enough that it was difficult for Pakistan to face up the US. What has happened can not be reversed but by now enough damage has been done to Muslim society that the time is ripe for each Muslim country to pull themselves up assert themselves.

I have said it earlier and it is worth repeating. Is there no one in that country who has the guts to say that enough is enough and the grievances that US had with anybody do not warrant any further presence and no further action.

Unfortunately entirely believable for that is American modus operandi (inherited from the British) - bribe your way through. I wish we from the Indian sub-continent were not that amenable to bribe. Unfortunately no one is doing anything about it. Even in religious repertoire it is listed as one of the grave (major) sins that should be avoided. What is required is a thorough movement to eradicate this plague.