[TXmjLW9b]

in hindsight we have historically Islamic states and not countries so using semantics does not achieve anything except confusion on people.
None of the people of hijaz practice shirk and scholars have wrote that this is a divine gift from Allah for the sacrifice of the prophet (peace be upon him) so causing fitna on a PC screen about saudi arabia does not benefit to anyone

[JANALA]

Asalamu Alaykum Wr. Wb.

Is it true that Saudi Arabia is a kafir nation?

Wa'alaykum assalam bro Caliph.
Not true.

We need to have khilafat, Saudi Arabia is not khilafat, therefore Saudi Arabia is a country amongst those of the jahilya, with monarchy.
Isn't it true then, that Saudi Arabia is a non-muslim country?

I agree with your statement that Saudi Arabia system of governance is not khilafat. Because she uses monarchy system of governance.
However, I do not agree with your conclusion that "therefore Saudi Arabia is a country amongst those of the jahiliya... that Saudi Arabia is a non muslim country.

Please do not be confused with Islamic system of governance of the ummah (in the time of Rasulullah s.a.w. & the 4 khulafa') and the system of governance of an Islamic state (or country).

Monarchy system of governance is an entity in the Khilafat system, and Rasulullah s.a.w. has accepted the monarchy system of governance during his s.a.w. life. If Rasulullah s.a.w. himself has accepted the monarchy system of governance during his s.a.w. life... how on earth can we say that monarchy system is jahiliya/kafir... ???

wallaahu a'lam.

[JANALA]

Proof that Rasulullah s.a.w. accepts the monarchy system can be seen from his s.a.w. letters to monarchs...

eg to the 2 kings of Oman, Rasulullah s.a.w. sent Amru ibn As r.a.

(my poor translation 8^( .. would appreciate if someone can provide the arabic true version of the letter)

Bismillaahir Rahmaanir Rahiim

From Muhammad slave of ALLAH and His messenger to Jaifar and Abdu ibnai alJulandi

.....
.....
If you two accept Islam, I will appoint you as the ruler. If not, you will loose your sovereign...
....

alhamdulillaah through 'Amru ibn alAs, both the kings embraced Islam.


the above letter is a proof that the rulers (kings)/monarchs who accepted Islam, Rasulullah s.a.w. permit them to continue and become rulers and monarchs of their nations.


wallaahu a'lam.

[xT0U3UGh]

Too many trolls. How this thread even reached 3 pages is beyond me!

[justashonglefan]

Sunni Student,

It doesn't matter about Hizb Tahrir or not. What matters is communicating and understanding a fellow Muslim brother.

Agreed. My entire reason for writing what I wrote was to make it easier to understand what the brother was communicating because it appears that at least one person, if not more, were confused about what his point was.

It is outright hizbiya- haram sectarianism, partisanship- to simply dismiss someone or render him a pariah because you think he is from a certain group.

I neither dismissed him nor rendered him a pariah. Reread what I wrote and see if it is reasonable to conclude either of those things on the basis of what I wrote.

And last I heard, HT are Muslim brothers, period. So what is this about if Caliph likes HT, or listens to them, etc.?

....

What it is "about" is making clear where he probably stands so that others can understand his perspective rather than being confused about it and having conversations that go nowhere.

[BostonDoctorTTT]

Asalamu Alaykum Wr. Wb.
We need to have khilafat, Saudi Arabia is not khilafat, therefore Saudi Arabia is a country amongst those of the jahilya, with monarchy.
Isn't it true then, that Saudi Arabia is a non-muslim country?

What is the difference between a khalif and a king? Two men who rule and who follow the sunnah? The answer is nothing. You do not declare Saudi Arabia (SA) a non Muslim country because it is ruled by a king. The king can easily be given Hidayah (guidence) by Allah swt and they can change their rule, we must make dua for them. Rebellion and causing harm to sinful Muslim rulers is frowned upon by the Sunnah... because causing bloodshed and fitna...things can become much worse. Look at Iraq, removing the tyrant ruler Sadam Hussein meant thousands of people were killed had to flee and everyday normal things like buying food became impossible, you and your whole family could be killed if you left your house to buy milk.

We must try to change ourselves first. We must also support Muslim kings and pray for them, their governments and rule can change and in fact their form of government is better than modern democracy ('which has become a religion') for people around the world, because certain classes of elites like it, it allows them to control and tax people to pay debts to banks without too much hassel.

[bestonline]

Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country because the majority of its residents are Muslims. The system of governance is against the sunnah (as our Sharia requires a Khilafah) but that doesn't make the country a non Muslim country or even the rulers non Muslims themselves

[BostonDoctorTTT]

From Ibn Khaldun, the Muslim faqih, historian and philosopher of history:

First Stage of Ibn Khaldun’s three stages through which man, as a collective animal, passes.

Stage One Bedounism is not Nomadism. The Bedouin is simply outside the passive urban community. He does not need theories, nor laws cooked up by party legalists, in order to know what is right. He has recognized himself as an in-time creature with a beyond-time contract. From his emergence there is born a Resistance. He is able to become by the power of growth and expansion a new civic force in which emerges “the most powerful force that the social man can experience. It is kinship that transcends the tribal and the familial” a unification of the group.

The Second Stage defined by Ibn Khaldun with the term ‘Asabiyya’ “the life and death unifying bond of brotherhood without blood ties […] Asabiyya unites men to find the power to act and transform and command […] If the binding factor (religio – to bind together) is there, that is Divine religion, it is, that being its highest possibility, assured a triumph”

Stage Three is Kingship, the appointment of a King, which transfers that authority to each of the people of the Asabiyya. Once a people, a whole people take on this charge, they become an irresistible power.

Interpretation:

Stage One: Individuals that live in cities but are considered to be outsiders by the majority, they are immigrants, poor etc. They know they will die and they have a contract with Allah which they want to keep until the Next Life. These individuals join with other similar individuals and become united as brothers and sisters not based on family or blood. They become a civic force for resistance of the bad to establish the good as they see it.


Stage Two: They unite on Islam the word religion mean 'to bind', so they become bound as one.


Stage Three: They appoint a leader, and all follow him...now they become irresistible and they become the rulers.

[BostonDoctorTTT]

This hadith also curses monarchy in another version. We have to make khilafat.

It probably curses tyrannical kingship, not all forms of Kingship. Khilafah is Kingship in many ways. The Turks were the last Khalifs and their rule was Kingship no difference really. They however applied the Shariah it is said that a small village ruled an empire, unlike today where huge numbers of people govern cities and countries creating corruption and bureaucracy (red tape). The khalif governed the land with Justice, no taxes were collected, no riba or banking and paper currencies. The markets prevented corruption, rent free markets existed. There is nothing stopping Muslim Kings today from slowly re-establishing these once again. They would be written in future histories as Muslim heroes! And in the Akhirah they would be given rewards without limits.

[tsamprasxx]

Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country. But there is no doubt in that they have the corrupt leaders, as Palestine is a live example infront of you.

I must quote here something, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and Shah Faisal were best friends. Once Zulfiqar went with Shah to some oil rig and requested to have a cigar there, but Shah refused it by saying that it's dangerous over here you can't do that. It's better to have it later. But Zulfiqar Bhutto insisted a lot and Shah did the same what every good friend does. He called the engineers and responsible persons to put it off (machine).
And within 5 mins. Shah got 500 calls. There Zulfiqar said I was in mood to have this stuff. I just wanna show u the worth of urself.

[JANALA]

Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country because the majority of its residents are Muslims. The system of governance is against the sunnah (as our Sharia requires a Khilafah) but that doesn't make the country a non Muslim country or even the rulers non Muslims themselves

Monarchy system of governance is against sunnah ???

Monarchy system of governance is one entity in the system of khalifah.
In the time of Rasulullah s.a.w., he s.a.w. sent letters to several monarchs and if the monarchs accept Islam, the monarch will be allowed to continue to rule (as a monarch/king) in their land. Rasulullah s.a.w. had never instructed the kings to abolish their monarchy system of governance.

Hence, please elaborate on how you come to the conclusion that monarchy is against sunnah ?

[elektikakass]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about this issue and brothers are saying things which are NOT true about Islam.

I seek protection in Allah from misguidance.

The (shariat) Divine Laws of previous generations do not apply to the Muslim Ummah unless the Legislator specifies it applies.

And prophecies do NOT signify instructions and commands when in contradiction to the Shariah.
So this hadith does NOT signify permissibility of tyranny or oppressive mulkan

There shall be Prophethood (nubuwwa) among you for as long as Allah wishes it to be among you. Then it shall be lifted up when Allah wishes to lift it up. Then there shall be successorship (khilâfa) on the pattern (minhâj) of Prophetship for as long as Allah wishes it to be. Then it shall be lifted up when Allah wishes to lift it up. Then there shall be a trying kingship (mulkan `âddan) for as long as Allah wishes it to be. Then it shall be lifted up when Allah wishes to lift it up. Then there shall be a tyrannical kingship (mulkan jabriyyatan) for as long as Allah wishes it to be. Then it shall be lifted up when Allah wishes to lift it up. Then there shall be successorship on the pattern of Prophetship. Narrated from Hudhayfa by Ahmad with a sound chain as stated by al-Zayn in the Musnad (14:163 #18319) and as indicated by al-Haythami (5:188-189): Today, the concept of monarchy practiced in the world does not coencide with what Islam presents.
more later

[DP5Ups8o]

I must quote here something, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and Shah Faisal were best friends. Once Zulfiqar went with Shah to some oil rig and requested to have a cigar there, but Shah refused it by saying that it's dangerous over here you can't do that. It's better to have it later. But Zulfiqar Bhutto insisted a lot and Shah did the same what every good friend does. He called the engineers and responsible persons to put it off (machine).
And within 5 mins. Shah got 500 calls. There Zulfiqar said I was in mood to have this stuff. I just wanna show u the worth of urself.

Sorry I missed the point.

[JANALA]

Today, the concept of monarchy practiced in the world does not coencide with what Islam presents.

appreciate if you could enlighten me on which part of monarchy that does not coincide with what Islam present.
Jazaakallaahu khoyron.