[orillaVar]

Can you present solid proof about your claims? You are just imitating the Kuffar's propaganda regarding the Mujahideen. Suicide attack is used only in the cases where there is no other way to fight against the enemy. Do you know about fake Taliban groups who are nothing but the agents of US? They also recruit young people and motivate them to be a suicide attacker.
By the way, at first learn about the mighty movement of the Taliban and then comment.

And can YOU give me the proof of what you are writing about?.If I am imitating kuffar,s propaganda (in your words),you are imitating the propaganda of TTP,give me one solid proof that America is recruiting suicide bombers through fake taliban groups.This is what you WANT to believe to clear the name of Taliban from the brutal shameless bloodshed in the name of religion,but it is not even close to the truth.The fact remains that TTP is a group of barbarian killers,lunatics and criminals using the holy name of Islam.
What enemy do they fight when they explode themself in a mosque ? Do they,like khwarij,believe all Muslims to be munafiq and their killing being allowed,?Why don,t they just cross the border and kill a few NATO soldiers ?,at least that would be a real jihad.
Your wishes does not change the reality even the slightest bit.TTP is not a jihadi organisation.It is a "Fasadi" group bent upon destroying a Muslim country.
And please,I know the "mighty" Taliban very well,I think it is you who should try to learn some more facts about them !

[viagracheapest]

And can YOU give me the proof of what you are writing about?.If I am imitating kuffar,s propaganda (in your words),you are imitating the propaganda of TTP,give me one solid proof that America is recruiting suicide bombers through fake taliban groups.This is what you WANT to believe to clear the name of Taliban from the brutal shameless bloodshed in the name of religion,but it is not even close to the truth.The fact remains that TTP is a group of barbarian killers,lunatics and criminals using the holy name of Islam.
What enemy do they fight when they explode themself in a mosque ? Do they,like khwarij,believe all Muslims to be munafiq and their killing being allowed,?Why don,t they just cross the border and kill a few NATO soldiers ?,at least that would be a real jihad.
Your wishes does not change the reality even the slightest bit.TTP is not a jihadi organisation.It is a "Fasadi" group bent upon destroying a Muslim country.
And please,I know the "mighty" Taliban very well,I think it is you who should try to learn some more facts about them !

Read the following interview attentively:

http://www.therearenosunglasses.word...th-waziristan/

If you don't belive it, then I've nothing to do.

[orillaVar]

Read the following interview attentively:

http://www.therearenosunglasses.word...th-waziristan/

If you don't belive it, then I've nothing to do.

This proves your innocence to me,but I will leave it here,LAKUM DEENUKUM WA LIYA DEEN....!
Wassalam.

[Cyncceply]

What is the opinion of the Deobandi Ulema of Pakistan regarding the TTP and Pakistan Army ? Jazakallah.

[viagracheapest]

This proves your innocence to me,but I will leave it here,

You are neither providing your proofs on the favour of your claims nor you are refuting my proof.

LAKUM DEENUKUM WA LIYA DEEN....!
Wassalam. Do you want to say your Deen and mine are different?

[orillaVar]

No brother,Alhamdolillah we are both Muslims,may Allah swt grant you and me Husne khatima; I just wanted to say that probably we may not agree on this issue,so better leave it,discussion for the sake of discussion is never useful.About refutation of your proof what can I say?.....
Mir kiya sada hein beemar Howe jis ke sabab
Usi attar ke londe se dawa lete hein
When you present the one sided interview of a WARLORD as your proof,all I can do is to say:Wassalam.!
BTW,our interests are the same,the Glory of Islam !....You think Taliban are further Glorifying Islam,I think they are misrepresenting and defaming it.Let us leave it as such.History will decide who was right !
But please don,t take me wrong,I love you,and all the Muslims,for the sake of Allah.

[Gypejeva]

The biggest myth which has been coined by the Pakistani media and its establishment is that Afghan Taliban are good and the Pakistani ones are bad. As if mysteriously the same blood which is at the other side of Durand line becomes bad when it comes to this side. In the eyes of the establishment and the people inflicted with nationalism the afghan Taliban are only good because they are away and the Pakistani Taliban are bad because they are are in Pakistan. Ofcourse , these people like Islam to be implemented in Afghanistan but they are not ready to buy their daughters a shawl to wear at home. Such hypocrites are involved in malign propaganda against the Pakistani Taliban and i think the Muslims should not fall to this.

salam actually this myth isnt only propagated by the media and est but also by hafiz saeed and JUD, i believe TTP even killed some LeT/JUD fighters but saeed sab didnt want it to get out? Is this true?

[bestonline]

Here is a video of Maulana Asmatullah Muaviya on the subject of TTP, answering the most commonly asked questions such as the permissibility of fighting the Pak Army, etc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=hFGSvP73nWM#!

I think he fought the jihad in Kashmir and is now in TTP, maybe someone who knows about him can share his bio

Note- video is in urdu

[rNr5Di3S]

Here is mufti e azam Pakistan, hadrat Rafi uthmani saheb on the ttp antics of killing innocent men, women and children just because their kin are in the army:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLcEUvgkYFk

[Gypejeva]

i think we need to hear what the TTP have to say, and more importantly their daleel. Here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Duos2...layer_embedded

[rNr5Di3S]

i think we need to hear what the TTP have to say, and more importantly their daleel. Here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Duos2...layer_embedded

that is forgive me quite an amateur debate. forgive my arrogance but i have refuted it myself the arguments of these two 'laymen'...none of them are scholars trust me. when you hear scholars of Islam speak it is way different than this ttp 'scholar' or this army personnel...neither of them represent deoband values nor barelvi...
i again suggest people to use the search option (try google) and see the discussions that took place on this forum long time back to prove how ttp and afghan taliban are different.

[Gypejeva]

i found three threads can u post more

[rNr5Di3S]

i found three threads can u post more

why don't you post them here so i can have a look. i have some of them in bookmarks. hard to find

[rNr5Di3S]

meanwhile i ope everyone has heard of the 'spring offensive' launched by the taliban...some suicide attacks...note :"The "spring offensive" targeted foreign embassies, Nato's HQ and the Afghan parliament"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17719956

[bestonline]

Bro, the TTP also target only military/government offices and personnel. If you look at the link I posted, you would realise that (an actual TTP scholar speaking on the subject). Not to mention that the TTP are under the command of Mullah Umar and call him Amir Ul Mumineen. Look up Maulana Jalaludeen Haqqani; he worked directly under the Afghan Taliban and is currently fighting in Waziristan in conjunction with Hakeemullah Masud, etc. There are all under the control of Mullah Umar so you cannot support one without the other; they are the same group on two sides of a border

[Gypejeva]

why don't you post them here so i can have a look. i have some of them in bookmarks. hard to find

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...rls-to-School&

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...highlight=swat

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...t-in-Pakistan&

[Gypejeva]

Bro, the TTP also target only military/government offices and personnel. If you look at the link I posted, you would realise that (an actual TTP scholar speaking on the subject). Not to mention that the TTP are under the command of Mullah Umar and call him Amir Ul Mumineen. Look up Maulana Jalaludeen Haqqani; he worked directly under the Afghan Taliban and is currently fighting in Waziristan in conjunction with Hakeemullah Masud, etc. There are all under the control of Mullah Umar so you cannot support one without the other; they are the same group on two sides of a border

please post any relevant links/text if you can

[bestonline]

please post any relevant links/text if you can

The best ones have already been posted here... here are a couple more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLFRj...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mc5c...feature=fvwrel

The first one has english subtitles whilst the second is in urdu, no subtitles

[Gypejeva]

The best ones have already been posted here... here are a couple more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLFRj...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mc5c...feature=fvwrel

The first one has english subtitles whilst the second is in urdu, no subtitles

hmm..why wont our ullama support them then? i only listened half of the second vid, internet's too slow, can you please summarze the rest?

[bestonline]

hmm..why wont our ullama support them then? i only listened half of the second vid, internet's too slow, can you please summarze the rest?

Starting from where Maulana Weliurrahman begins to speak, he basically says:

An Islamic state has to conditions- the application of Sharia and the necessity of the leader being a Muslim
Musharaff/Zardari, etc sold innocent Muslims to USA- they are not Muslims
They are party to the deaths of thousands of Muslims
All Islamic parties even in the Parliament believe that this political system is not Islamic
If it is not Islamic, then it must be kufr system (as it can only be one of the two)
There is no Sharia in Pakistan
The presence of riba is a war against Allah and His Messenger
Islam is the law of Allah whereas democracy is the law of man
Democracy is against the Quran and scholars such as maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi have said that democracy is against Islam
America is trying to appeal to the mujahideen and ask them to join the democracies whereas the mujahideen only accept Sharia
Allah commands that fighting should happen until fitnah is removed and the deen is Allah's alone
Some brothers would request the mujahideen to change things through democracy but the mujahideen consider the system to be a system of kufr and kufr cannot be fought through a kufr system
The mujahideen want to destroy the democracy and then establish Salah, Zakah and enjoin the good and forbid the evil as the Quran commands
We want to follow the Sharia and make others follow it
The Qadi's will be Ulema
Mullah Umar is a good example of establishing the Sharia, etc
The Pakistani population has made a lot of sacrifices
The mujahideen appeal to the Muslims to not believe what the media tells them
They are not terrorists, they are sacrificing for the deen and history will show that
The Pak Army will be show to be traitors and the agents of foreigners
This is our aim- to bring an Islamic system in Pakistan and get rid of the democratic system that people have become frustrated with

With regards to why Ulema will not support them, I think most Ulema prefer not to speak on the topic at all.