[pumpineemob]

Assalam o 'alaykum,

Copied from a Barelwi website:

"Is it permissible to read or teach the exegesis of Ibn Kathīr?

It is impermissible to read or indeed teach the exegesis of the Qur’ân by Ibn Kathīr. The general public must abstain/refrain from reading or even viewing works that are attributed or authored by the Waĥābīs/Deobandīs, or any other false sect.

Ibn Kathīr was a student of Ibn Taymiyyah and like his teacher, he too objected to a number views upheld by the Aĥl as-Sunnah wa al-Jama’ah. It was from the ideology of his teacher Ibn Taymiyyah, that the Waĥābī sect was born. Furthermore, Ibn Kathīr, much like his teacher, also agreed to ideas such as the belief of tajsīm, amongst others. For these reasons it is not permissible for anyone to study/read the exegesis of Ibn Kathīr, nor for that matter, any other Waĥābī/Deobandī literature.

This ruling is also applicable upon the scholars of the Aĥl as-Sunnah (aside from those working in the field of refutation); they must all abstain from studying works of the false sects and instead, study the works of the noble Imāms of the Aĥl as-Sunnah.

Huzur Taaj al-Shari'ah Mufti Akhtar Raza Khan"

[PharmaDrMan]

Source?

[pumpineemob]

Source?

Assalam o 'alaykum,

Sunni View on Ibn Kathir and some other personalities?

"Assalaamu 'Alaykum

What is the belief of The Ahlus-Sunnah on the Aqidah of Ibn Kathir, Ibn Arabi, Mansur al-Hallaj etc?

I have heard some people say good words about them. But some people condemn them, surprisingly both groups belonging to Ahlus Sunnah!

Please clarify."

In reply to the above query, a Barelwi translated the above quoted fatwa of Akhtar Rida Khan.

http://www.*********.com/masabih/sho...8585#post38585

[maonnjtip]

Salam `Aleykum,

We ask Allah to guide them... I've no idea what to say.

[nushentelve]

Assalam o 'alaykum,

Ibn Kathīr was a student of Ibn Taymiyyah and like his teacher, he too objected to a number views upheld by the Aĥl as-Sunnah wa al-Jama’ah. It was from the ideology of his teacher Ibn Taymiyyah, that the Waĥābī sect was born. Furthermore, Ibn Kathīr, much like his teacher, also agreed to ideas such as the belief of tajsīm, amongst others.

Walikum usalam,

Brother what is your points, unfortunately this is also the opinion of some Deobandi people, esp. those who are not firm in knowledge and are aggressive polemicist. So how can you blame a barelvi if we also have this internal conflict.

Imam Shah Wali Ullah r.a. rejecting the misconception of the Barelvis, Kawtharis, Some Deobandis and rest of Ahle Bidat:

These speculators behaved contemptuously toward the People of the Hadith calling them corporealists and anthropomorphists and saying that they sought refuge in the formula of "without asking how" (bi la kaif). It has become eminently clear to me that this contempt of theirs is unfounded and that they err in their sayings both from the viewpoint of tradition and of reason and that they err in slandering the leaders of the true religion. (Hujjatullah Al-Balighah)

[pumpineemob]

Assalam o alaykum,

I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. Tafsir Ibn Kathir is considered among the five most reliable Arabic tafsirs of later times according to the 'ulama of Deoband as mentioned by Imam Kashmiri, 'Allamah Binnori, and Mufti Taqi Usmani, etc.

The five most reliable Arabic tafsirs of later times:

1. Tafsir Ibn Kathir
2. Tafsir Kabir
3. Tafsir Abu Sa'ud
4. Tafsir Qurtubi
5. Tafsir Ruh al-Ma'ani

'Allamah Sayyid Yusuf Binnori quotes Imam Anwar Shah Kashmiri as follow: "About which our teacher [Imam Kashmiri] used to say, 'if any book can make one independent of another book, it is Tafsir Ibn Kathir which removes the need for Tafsir Ibn Jarir'."

[surefireinvest]

Walikum usalam,

Brother what is your points, unfortunately this is also the opinion of some Deobandi people, esp. those who are not firm in knowledge and are aggressive polemicist. So how can you blame a barelvi if we also have this internal conflict.

Imam Shah Wali Ullah r.a. rejecting the misconception of the Barelvis, Kawtharis, Some Deobandis and rest of Ahle Bidat:

These speculators behaved contemptuously toward the People of the Hadith calling them corporealists and anthropomorphists and saying that they sought refuge in the formula of "without asking how" (bi la kaif). It has become eminently clear to me that this contempt of theirs is unfounded and that they err in their sayings both from the viewpoint of tradition and of reason and that they err in slandering the leaders of the true religion. (Hujjatullah Al-Balighah)

Shah Waliullah predated the Deobandis, Barelwis and Imam Zahid al Kawthari. So it is obvious that he was not talking of the Madrasah at Deoband and its students. What is not obvious is what you are talking about.

[surefireinvest]

Salam `Aleykum,

We ask Allah to guide them... I've no idea what to say.

Like father, like son.
Someday they will come out with a fatwa saying that Huzoor (saw) was a Wahhabi.

[nushentelve]

Shah Waliullah predated the Deobandis, Barelwis and Imam Zahid al Kawthari. So it is obvious that he was not talking of the Madrasah at Deoband and its students. What is not obvious is what you are talking about.

Very Silly Brother, Quran predated all the deviant sects of Islam, then do you think the verses of Quran doesn't applicable to them, very silly brother very silly.

If any buddy follows the deviant predecessors (e.g. Mutazilah, Jahmiyyah, etc) then the refutation done to predecessors is also applicable to successors. Anybody who has common sense can understand it

BTW I'm not talking about entire Madrasah of Deoband, I said some Ulama who aren't firm in knowledge and current aggressive neo-meta-maturidis and pseudo-polemicist believe in that (i.e. blaming Ahle sunnat to be anthropomorphist).

Allamah Abdul Hay Lakhnavi r.a. (although was Frangi Mahli, however he considered as deobandi)
Allamah Anwar Shah Kashmir r.a.
Hazrat Thanvi (his major opinions)
The current Sheikh ul Hadtih of Mazhir ul Uloom Shanapur (the next Greatest Deobandi Madarasah), Allamah Youns Jonpuri d.b.

The current opinion of Darul Ulloom Karachi (the next homeland of Deobandiyate)

All these Kibar Deobandi scholars explicitly say what is considered as anthropomorphism under barelvi, Kawthari and neo-deo-meta-maturidi thoughts.

And if you prove otherwise than you prove my previous point.

[surefireinvest]

"Very Silly Brother, Quran predated all the deviant sects of Islam, then do you think the verses of Quran doesn't applicable to them, very silly brother very silly."

I don't know if you are mentally deficient or just trying to be stupid. Do you realise that you are comparing the Book of Allah to a human? Do you even know what the Qur'an is? The Tahawiyya states: "The Qur'an is the word of Allah. It came from Him as speech without it being possible to say how. He sent it down on His Messenger as revelation. The believers accept it, as absolute truth. They are certain that it is, in truth, the word of Allah. It is not created as is the speech of human beings, and anyone who hears it and claims that it is human speech has become an unbeliever. Allah warns him and censures him and threatens him with Fire when He says, Exalted is He: "I will burn him in the Fire." (al-Muddaththir 74:26) When Allah threatens with the Fire those who say "This is just human speech" (74:25) we know for certain that it is the speech of the Creator of mankind and that it is totally unlike the speech of mankind."
So for you, Shah Waliullah is now the Word of God. Smart, very smart.


If any buddy follows the deviant predecessors (e.g. Mutazilah, Jahmiyyah, etc) then the refutation done to predecessors is also applicable to successors. Anybody who has common sense can understand it

Well buddy, let us see your evidence for the assertion that our scholars are following the Mutazilah and the Jahmiyyah so we can decide for ourselves whether it is applicable to us.

BTW I'm not talking about entire Madrasah of Deoband, I said some Ulama who aren't firm in knowledge and current aggressive neo-meta-maturidis and pseudo-polemicist believe in that (i.e. blaming Ahle sunnat to be anthropomorphist).

1. Which 'Ulama are not firm in knowledge from Deoband? And what is your qualification for judging it besides a Ph.D in copy-pasting?
2. What is a neo-meta-maturidi?
3. What is a pseudo-polemicist?
4. Who blames the Ahl Sunna for being anthropomorphist? And if that is so then to which group do the Deobandis belong? You might as well come out right now and say what you really are instead of posing as a Hanafi, buddy.

Allamah Abdul Hay Lakhnavi r.a. (although was Frangi Mahli, however he considered as deobandi)
Allamah Anwar Shah Kashmir r.a.
Hazrat Thanvi (his major opinions)
The current Sheikh ul Hadtih of Mazhir ul Uloom Shanapur (the next Greatest Deobandi Madarasah), Allamah Youns Jonpuri d.b.
The current opinion of Darul Ulloom Karachi (the next homeland of Deobandiyate)

You have given the names of some of our scholars. For what? What is your point?

All these Kibar Deobandi scholars explicitly say what is considered as anthropomorphism under barelvi, Kawthari and neo-deo-meta-maturidi thoughts.

Put your money where your mouth is and bring your evidence instead of firing blanks.
"neo-deo-meta-maturidi".....lol...your language is pathetic.

And if you prove otherwise than you prove my previous point.

One more of the great mysteries of life.

[nushentelve]

Dr. Sahab don't be childish. I can right the names of Neo-Deo-Meta-Maturidis, mager aap hi ki dunya man jag hasai ho gi

And you answered my entire post without understanding, with distorting by splitting my paragraphs into lines

Brother Saad quoted Ibne Kathir was anthropomorphist, b/c of influnce of Ibne Taymiyyah : , and our some Ulamas very dislike Ibne Taymiyyah and his students even his Hanafi students by blaming them were anthropomorphist.

If you don't know about this issuse then it very good thing, b/c the best way to believe is believe like layman or like Sahabah they didn't do unnecessary probing of creed, they accept the Quran wa Hadith as they are, don't reject the Quran by doing weird Tawillate. This the saying of Hazrat Thanvi.

On very first I was thinking Brother Saad know the issuse of anthropomorphism, therefore respond him accordingly, but now I realized you both don't know anything about, it good thing All best Allah Hafiz

[surefireinvest]

Dr. Sahab don't be childish. I can right the names of Neo-Deo-Meta-Maturidis, mager aap hi ki dunya man jag hasai ho gi

And you answered my entire post without understanding, with distorting by splitting my paragraphs into lines

Brother Saad quoted Ibne Kathir was anthropomorphist, b/c of influnce of Ibne Taymiyyah : , and our some Ulamas very dislike Ibne Taymiyyah and his students even his Hanafi students by blaming them were anthropomorphist.

If you don't know about this issuse then it very good thing, b/c the best way to believe is believe like layman or like Sahabah they didn't do unnecessary probing of creed, they accept the Quran wa Hadith as they are, don't reject the Quran by doing weird Tawillate. This the saying of Hazrat Thanvi.

On very first I was thinking Brother Saad know the issuse of anthropomorphism, therefore respond him accordingly, but now I realized you both don't know anything about, it good thing All best Allah Hafiz

Man, either put up or shut up. There is no need to spare our sentiments or feelings.
All that you are saying is known as beating around the bush. And what brother Saad quoted was what the Barelwi said. Secondly the issue is not of having anthropomorphic tendencies but of whether one of the most prominent exegeses of this Ummah might be read or not.
Secondly when you respond, kindly write in a fashion that people can understand and comprehend. I am afraid that your second grade English makes it difficult to even get the general gist of what you are trying to say. That coupled with your chaotic thought processes and your hypo manic tendencies turns your post into a badly turned out omelette. Hope you understand. By the way, you still haven't answered a single one of my queries.

[viiagrag]

Dr. Sahab don't be childish. I can right the names of Neo-Deo-Meta-Maturidis, mager aap hi ki dunya man jag hasai ho gi

And you answered my entire post without understanding, with distorting by splitting my paragraphs into lines

Brother Saad quoted Ibne Kathir was anthropomorphist, b/c of influnce of Ibne Taymiyyah : , and our some Ulamas very dislike Ibne Taymiyyah and his students even his Hanafi students by blaming them were anthropomorphist.

If you don't know about this issuse then it very good thing, b/c the best way to believe is believe like layman or like Sahabah they didn't do unnecessary probing of creed, they accept the Quran wa Hadith as they are, don't reject the Quran by doing weird Tawillate. This the saying of Hazrat Thanvi.

On very first I was thinking Brother Saad know the issuse of anthropomorphism, therefore respond him accordingly, but now I realized you both don't know anything about, it good thing All best Allah Hafiz

it would serve your cause better if you paused, properly formulated your thoughts, and then wrote. that way one might be able to understand what you are saying.

[Malinguenem]

Assalam o 'alaykum,

Copied from a Barelwi website:

"Is it permissible to read or teach the exegesis of Ibn Kathīr?

It is impermissible to read or indeed teach the exegesis of the Qur’ân by Ibn Kathīr. The general public must abstain/refrain from reading or even viewing works that are attributed or authored by the Waĥābīs/Deobandīs, or any other false sect.

Ibn Kathīr was a student of Ibn Taymiyyah and like his teacher, he too objected to a number views upheld by the Aĥl as-Sunnah wa al-Jama’ah. It was from the ideology of his teacher Ibn Taymiyyah, that the Waĥābī sect was born. Furthermore, Ibn Kathīr, much like his teacher, also agreed to ideas such as the belief of tajsīm, amongst others. For these reasons it is not permissible for anyone to study/read the exegesis of Ibn Kathīr, nor for that matter, any other Waĥābī/Deobandī literature.

This ruling is also applicable upon the scholars of the Aĥl as-Sunnah (aside from those working in the field of refutation); they must all abstain from studying works of the false sects and instead, study the works of the noble Imāms of the Aĥl as-Sunnah.

Huzur Taaj al-Shari'ah Mufti Akhtar Raza Khan"

Hafiz ibn kathir was a great scholar of islam . if he was an anthromorphist ( Allah knows Best ) then dont take that part from him , take what is acceptable.
why cant muslims be balanced???
wassup with these barelwi's?

[viiagrag]

Ibn Kathir was not an anthropomorphist...one need not fear that he was.

[Malinguenem]

Ibn Kathir was not an anthropomorphist...one need not fear that he was.

I never said he was , that reply was towards the barelwi's believing him to be an anthromorphist.

[viiagrag]

I never said he was , that reply was towards the barelwi's believing him to be an anthromorphist.

my statement was a general one, it was not aimed at you

[maonnjtip]

Hafiz ibn kathir was a great scholar of islam . if he was an anthromorphist ( Allah knows Best ) then dont take that part from him , take what is acceptable.
why cant muslims be balanced???

^ This is the correct way of thinking barak-Allahu Fik, NO SCHOLAR IS PERFECT.

[nushentelve]

if he was an anthromorphist ( Allah knows Best ) then dont take that part from him , take what is acceptable.

^ This is the correct way of thinking barak-Allahu Fik, NO SCHOLAR IS PERFECT.

Lo jee Dr Sahab people are coming out slowly I'm waiting for faqir

Sorry for last night I was too tired, I did too much mistakes.

Once I get spare time, I'll describe this issue.

[Dr. Shon Thomson]

Lo jee Dr Sahab people are coming out slowly I'm waiting for faqir

Sorry for last night I was too tired, I did too much mistakes.

Once I get spare time, I'll describe this issue.

I think you are usually tired in most of your posts.
Please take some rest in between your posts.