[NicolasOL]

AW All

I am sure many people who are now adults have had experiences as children that they look back upon and wonder what the meaning behind it was?

For example going on a school trip as a 7 year old and being pushed into a river by another child for no apparent reason? Being bullied, or verbally abused by the adults in ones life or falsely accused about something when they were innocent. What lessons are we supposed to learn from this does anyone have any answers? I did used to think that it was a way of learning that the world is a place of suffering and not something that should be trusted or loved. But it does make someone who thinks like this gloomy and depressed and this is not the natural state of the Muslim is it, should we not be joyous, trusting and loving towards others, instead of suspicious and weary?

[redDoodia]

I'll quickly add my perspective before knowledgeable people chip in.

(1) People have been give free will by Allah (SWT) and they use it the way they wish. Hence there is no need to think about it any further deeply. Those who use their free will for good deeds are pleasant for us and they will get good rewards for their actions from Allah (SWT). Those who use their free will for atrocities are a pain in the neck and they shall get punishment for their actions.

(2) Our disposition should be believers disposition. This disposition is neither too flamboyant nor too suspicious. It is in the mod way. When you meet desirable people you are not too effervescent and when you meet strangers you are not too suspicious.

I suppose this is sufficient for the time being.

wassalam

[indocrew]

I think it's as you mentioned, they are all lessons for a person.

A person who is bullied, he knows how it feels to be looked down upon and downtrodden. So, will he do the same to others, knowing he is causing them pain?

Similarly, a child who was abused by his parents, will he want his own children to go through the same thing that he did, from his own hand?

The example you first gave is similar to something that happened to me when I was a child. I was pushed into a lake and probably would have drowned if Allah had not made my great uncle look my way. Well I suppose the lesson there is not so clear, but one thing I can take from this is gratefulness. Knowing that something could have been much much worse, and yet being here twenty+ years later to tell the tale.

Once a person's perspective is right, they'll see things in a positive way. Instead of being sorrowful and depressed about things, they'll realize that the experiences they endured can help them take care of others and help others who are in unpleasant situations. Even if the world is a place where people don't love and cannot be trusted, a person's positive thinking and experiences can help make him into the one who loves and can be trusted, just like Rasulullah was during the days of ignorance in Makkah.

[Lypepuddyu]

AW All

I am sure many people who are now adults have had experiences as children that they look back upon and wonder what the meaning behind it was?

For example going on a school trip as a 7 year old and being pushed into a river by another child for no apparent reason? Being bullied, or verbally abused by the adults in ones life or falsely accused about something when they were innocent. What lessons are we supposed to learn from this does anyone have any answers? I did used to think that it was a way of learning that the world is a place of suffering and not something that should be trusted or loved. But it does make someone who thinks like this gloomy and depressed and this is not the natural state of the Muslim is it, should we not be joyous, trusting and loving towards others, instead of suspicious and weary?

Salaamu alaiykum wa rahmatullah
This is something I was thinking when reading this (NOT based on solid 'ilm)
I think every single human being has learnt his lesson for putting his tawakul on a creation. The dunya will always let us down. But most of the time, it is not because the dunya (or the people) are mean or do it on purpose (sometimes yes). It is part of the nature. The dunya doesn't make you the centre of the world - it has to account for everybody e.g. if you wanted something and when you reach there, there is a huge line of people in front, it puts you down but that's how it is because everyone wanted it also. However Allah is the one who you should put tawakul on while dealing with the dunya. So I think there's a lesson there. Whenever you get bullied or betrayed, it's a lesson that you should put tawakul on Allah.
May Allah forgive any shortcomings I have said.

[NicolasOL]

Thank you for all the answers, recently I have been reading about psychiatry (which is not a science) which seems to suggest that, how we are treated as children makes us what we are when we grow up...most of us make painful emotions become unconscious...so I was just wondering if this is true for myself. For example a distant father and over protective mother might make the grown person look for those things in their adult relationships...it basically means that most of us are usually not in control of ourself we might be doing things because of our childhood experiences what do the Sufi Shaykhs say about this?

Sometimes when listening to sufi Shaykhs it seems the nafs is such a monster and there is no way to overcome it, everything seems hopeless...doing dhikr, trying ones best is still not good enough. One just ends up feeling like a guilty child, a naughty child being told by the parents they are not good enough....Surely we are good enough Allah SWT created us and gave us life to experience it as a blessing not as something that should be hated or disliked with self hatred and mistrusting the self?

Why should we be following the people in Authority? Should we not trust our own self?

[redDoodia]

Thank you for all the answers, recently I have been reading about psychiatry (which is not a science) which seems to suggest that, how we are treated as children makes us what we are when we grow up...most of us make painful emotions become unconscious...so I was just wondering if this is true for myself. For example a distant father and over protective mother might make the grown person look for those things in their adult relationships...it basically means that most of us are usually not in control of ourself we might be doing things because of our childhood experiences what do the Sufi Shaykhs say about this?

I began that Psychology thread to get exactly these type of things clarified.
Out of the trinity of Freud-Adler-Jung we got three confusions.
Freud thought man is merely has only one specific feeling. (Sorry I'll avoid any specification).
Adler sort of told us that we do not come out of childhood. That is the problem that you are facing.
There is no doubt that childhood experience is very potent because the experience is very limited as well as state of childhood has helplessness (though in decreasing amount). But we do come out of our childhood and we do overcome those past events.

Sufi Shuyukh look at the things the way Allah (SWT) wants us to look at them. Allah (SWT) created us and asked us, "Am I not your Lord?" "Why not?", said all of us. And the things start rolling from there. This is our faith and this is our paradigm.

As I said earlier these are precisely the issues that we need to clarify and my impression is that it should not be difficult to do that. The reason is that psychologists have an experience of hundred years while the Sufis of fourteen hundred years.
Sometimes when listening to sufi Shaykhs it seems the nafs is such a monster and there is no way to overcome it, ... Nafs is nafs. It is more difficult to overcome as compared to Satan the cursed. The moment you assert that there is no power except Allah (SWT) Satan the cured is completely ineffective and neutralized. In case of nafs we can rest in peace after death only. That is the definition of life - it is an exam and exam is to rise above the baser tendencies of the nafs. And it is about possibility and not about impossibility. It is possible to overcome our Baser Self. That is why Allah (SWT) has made us responsible for it. Allah (SWT) does not make us responsible for anything beyond our capabilities.

... everything seems hopeless...doing dhikr, trying ones best is still not good enough. Sufis have already told us that the trick is to keep doing and trying. Arabic word for it is Sabr. This is one word that is very potent - it has possibility, nearly a guarantee, of heaven.
One just ends up feeling like a guilty child, a naughty child being told by the parents they are not good enough....Surely we are good enough Allah SWT created us and gave us life to experience it as a blessing not as something that should be hated or disliked with self hatred and mistrusting the self? Perhaps you are referring to Eric Berne's transactional analysis. Again we got to develop Islamic perspective on it and I again assert that it should not be difficult at all.

When, in Eric Berne, Amy Harris and Thomas Harris's language, some one else's parent is addressing your child the situation is not hopeless at all. Look at the situation from Islamic perspective. Either you are in a state of sin or obedience. In case of sin the best thing is to accept it and repent - that is the glory of a believer. In case of obedience the parent of the whole world is useless and you can politely correct your interlocutor.

In case you feel lost about above two paragraphs then just ignore them. Get connected with a Shaikh and think yourself lucky that you have got another father - spiritual one. The world is dangerous enough to justify having two fathers - one biological and another spiritual.

Why should we be following the people in Authority? Should we not trust our own self? Allah (SWT) has created us for Ibadat. Ibadat is done by Abds. An Abd is lower than a slave who is, in turn, lower than a servant in the hierarchy of King-Minister-Officer-Servant.

You have to be an Abd of Allah (SWT) and a person who helps you in becoming that is called a Shaykh.
To find a Shaykh who shall make you an Abd of Allah and not his own Abd is your responsibility. And it is not impossible to find such a Shaykh. You should be warned about the fake Shaikhs but that should not discourage you at all from searching for a genuine one.

I hope it helps a little

PS : Also posted here.