[WaicurtaitfuT]

Kindly donot try to derail the topic and answer the question in the light of what was asked from shia sources..

[tarmpriopay]

You mentioned that Fatimah (RA) demanded inheritance, can you just shed some light on this?

I don't understand why Fatimah (RA), the same woman, who would give her own share of food to feed others, and sacrificed all she had. Why would she demand something that she's not entitled to? Saying that she demanded something, which she didn't have any right over, is suggesting an element of greed. But that just isn't possible- either she didn't demand anything, or she demanded whatever she had right over.

Remember, Fatimah (RA) is one of the very few, who are given the bashaarah of paradise directly in the Quran. If shias are claiming that Fatimah (RA) had demanded something, which she had no right over- then they are telling a major lie. Fatima indeed had a right over her inheritance, like any daughter has right over her fathers inheritance. Fatima had a right over Mohammad's (SAW) inheritance.

The idea of Prophets not leaving inheritance is indeed unlikely and unjust. The only thing that compels this idea are hadith. But there is no ayat of the quran which mentions this idea, at least to my knowledge. In fact the Quran makes a customary to leave inheritance.

"Allah commands you regarding your children. For the male a share equivalent to that of two females. " [Quran 4:11]
"If (there are) women (daughters) more than two, then for them two thirds of the inheritance; and if there is only one then it is half." [Quran 4:11]

The words of the Quran indeed hold more value than the Hadith. A quick google search will give you additional verses on inheritance.

Furthermore in the history of prophets it seems highly unlikely that once the prophet died that all their belongings were left to the believers. How would the wifes and family of the prophet survive? And why would Allah be unjust to family of the prophet, when he has made inheritance a command on the regular beliver, and made inheritance a right of children and relatives. Why are the relatives of the prophet to suffer? And not receive a fair share?





p.s I myself see a poster trying to derail the topic. Its Sad how he's trying to distract people from the issue being discussed.

[WaicurtaitfuT]

Kindly donot try to derail the topic and answer the question in the light of what was asked from shia sources..

again no shia have guts to answer under the light of what i posted from shia authentic ahadees... Im the thread starter and i owe answers from shias if they participate in this thread..

So answer me under the light of your own authentic ahadees...

And please do not compare prophet(Saw) with normal muslims... the rules prophets in certain issues were different, will say that since prophet(Saw) can marry more than 4 women at atime I too can marry.. Anyways instead of running from the real question, atleast admit that you cant answer what your own imams preached..

[tarmpriopay]

Saduq in "al-Khisal":

If the hadith goes against the Quran then it is invalid. And i would encourage you to go to a shia fourm to get your answer if you are so eager. Maybe you can guide them.

[WaicurtaitfuT]

If the hadith goes against the Quran then it is invalid. And i would encourage you to go to a shia fourm to get your answer if you are so eager. Maybe you can guide them.

This doesnt goes agianst quran my dear.. and the scholars who authenticated those narration , didnt they even knew quran that they considered thos to be authentic.. And i have asked these questions on to several shias, what i got i either answer not related to my question or senseless answers...

Many of the rulings for people related to prophet(Saw) were unique and not common as general muslims, so please dont try to apply rulings that are for general muslims...

[tarmpriopay]

I just dont understand why the daughter of the prophet is treated differently, why arnt the same rules applied to her. Why does Allah treat her unjustly? Why does the daughter of the prophet have to suffer in this world and not receive inheritance just because she is the prophets daughter.

[WaicurtaitfuT]

I just dont understand why the daughter of the prophet is treated differently, why arnt the same rules applied to her. Why does Allah treat her unjustly? Why does the daughter of the prophet have to suffer in this world and not receive inheritance just because she is the prophets daughter.

Just daughter of prophet(Saw)? listen man even the wives of prophet(Saw) were not given inheritance of prophet(Saw)...

And tell me why werent the wives of prophet(Saw) were treated same as other wives.. why cant they remarry after the death of prophet(Saw)? you will say its specifically for them.. so i say the same is the case here..

Anyways your own scholoars having the knowledge of quran, yet didnt hesitate in authenticating those ahadees..

[PilotVertolet]

Allah treated her unjustly? How can you say that? She is the leader of the women in al-Jannah (the everlasting life). The Prophet Sallahu Alayhi Wassallam and his family are people of zuhd. Their reward is reserved for the Aakhira.

[tarmpriopay]

Many of the rulings for people related to prophet(Saw) were unique and not common as general muslims, so please dont try to apply rulings that are for general muslims...

"It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as hand maidens) and Allah doth watch over all things ". [Al-Qur’an 33:52]

The Quran explicitly mentions where the prophet has a unique ruling addressed to him, that he unlike other Muslims can have more than four wifes. Whenever the Quran wishes to adorn the prophet with a trait that differs from the rest of the ummah it is explicitly mentioned. But there is no specific mention of the the inheritance of the prophet in the Quran.

"Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah's Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time." Quran [33:53]

Once again the Quran specifically tell people not to marry the mothers of the believers.

My point is that whenever something out of the ordinary is presented, there is mention of it in the Quran. But in the case of the prophets inheritance nothing is mentioned.

p.s i do respect ur comments and can see your logic

[tarmpriopay]

Just daughter of prophet(Saw)? listen man even the wives of prophet(Saw) were not given inheritance of prophet(Saw)...

Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 39, Number 521:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

The Prophet concluded a contract with the people of Khaibar to utilize the land on the condition that half the products of fruits or vegetation would be their share. The Prophet used to give his wives one hundred Wasqs each, eighty Wasqs of dates and twenty Wasqs of barley. (When 'Umar became the Caliph) he gave the wives of the Prophet the option of either having the land and water as their shares, or carrying on the previous practice. Some of them chose the land and some chose the Wasqs, and 'Aisha chose the land.

[PilotVertolet]

"It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as hand maidens) and Allah doth watch over all things ". [Al-Qur’an 33:52]

The Quran explicitly mentions where the prophet has a unique ruling addressed to him, that he unlike other Muslims can have more than four wifes. Whenever the Quran wishes to adorn the prophet with a trait that differs from the rest of the ummah it is explicitly mentioned. But there is no specific mention of the the inheritance of the prophet in the Quran.

"Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah's Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time." Quran [33:53]

Once again the Quran specifically tell people not to marry the mothers of the believers.

My point is that whenever something out of the ordinary is presented, there is mention of it in the Quran. But in the case of the prophets inheritance nothing is mentioned.

p.s i do respect ur comments and can see your logic

Akhi, is this an Usool you have derived yourself? Could you quote any scholars of Usool who said this i.e. ''extraordinary matters are always reported by Quran''.

Also, this fact (i.e. Prophets not leaving inheritance) was narrated by Abu Bakr as-Siddiq from the Prophet Sallahu Alayhi Wasallam. One of them is infallible and one of them is famous for his truthfulness (he is not called Siddiq for nothing). We, of Ahlus Sunnah, accept Hadith as a source of ruling. Is that not enough?

[WaicurtaitfuT]

"It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as hand maidens) and Allah doth watch over all things ". [Al-Qur’an 33:52]

The Quran explicitly mentions where the prophet has a unique ruling addressed to him, that he unlike other Muslims can have more than four wifes. Whenever the Quran wishes to adorn the prophet with a trait that differs from the rest of the ummah it is explicitly mentioned. But there is no specific mention of the the inheritance of the prophet in the Quran.

"Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah's Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time." Quran [33:53]

Once again the Quran specifically tell people not to marry the mothers of the believers.

My point is that whenever something out of the ordinary is presented, there is mention of it in the Quran. But in the case of the prophets inheritance nothing is mentioned.

p.s i do respect ur comments and can see your logic

my point is that there are several things unique for prophet(Saw) yes or no? you will say yes.. its another issues that where they are mentioned..

But the bottom line is that they have certain issues that are unique, so it shouldn't seem to be weird to someone if a thing is brought that is specific to prophets from authentic ahadees acknowledged by both shia and sunnis.

Further more your argument is weakened by the fact that the Shia Ulema themselves make exceptions in the rules of inheritance. For example, the Quran declares that children inherit wealth from their parents. However, the Shia Ulema (as well as the Sunni Ulema) make an exception to this general rule: Kaffir children do not inherit from their Muslim parents. Hence, not everyone is encompassed in the Quranic verse regarding inheritance; it is the general rule for the average person, but there are exceptions for special cases (and Prophets are one such exception).

Unfortunately for the Shia, their own Infallible Imams have made exceptions to the rules of inheritance that would make any Shia accusations against the Sunnis to be simply hypocritical and sanctimonious. For example, the Shia Infallible Imams have prohibited some heirs from inheriting certain items of their estates, including the Dhul Fiqar (Ali’s sword [رضّى الله عنه]), the Quran, the Prophet’s ring, and his bodily garments. These items were excluded from the Quranic laws of inheritance and reserved for the new Imam, instead of being properly distributed amongst the other children and eligible heirs. Hence, Imams had a different system of inheritance, so why is it surprising for the Shia that the Prophets also have their own system of inheritance distinct from non-Prophets?

The Quran gives the general rule, and then the Hadith give the details and exceptions to this rule. For example, the Quran says that men can only marry upto four wives. And yet, we find in Hadith that the Prophet (saw) was exempted from this ruling and he married more than four. Thus, the rules of Hadith grant an exception to the Prophets, and their rules are different than the rules of ordinary people as mentioned in the Quran. If the rule about marrying four women can be different for Prophets, then similarly we see no problem in the rules of inheritance also being different for Prophets. The analogy is perfect, and completely negates the Shia claims.

"It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as hand maidens) and Allah doth watch over all things ". [Al-Qur’an 33:52]

The Quran explicitly mentions where the prophet has a unique ruling addressed to him, that he unlike other Muslims can have more than four wifes. Whenever the Quran wishes to adorn the prophet with a trait that differs from the rest of the ummah it is explicitly mentioned. But there is no specific mention of the the inheritance of the prophet in the Quran. Where does the quran says in the verse you provided that he can have more than four wives? It just says that he cannot marry more women. And nor that he can exchange them.

[WaicurtaitfuT]

"It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as hand maidens) and Allah doth watch over all things ". [Al-Qur’an 33:52]

The Quran explicitly mentions where the prophet has a unique ruling addressed to him, that he unlike other Muslims can have more than four wifes. Whenever the Quran wishes to adorn the prophet with a trait that differs from the rest of the ummah it is explicitly mentioned. But there is no specific mention of the the inheritance of the prophet in the Quran.

"Nor is it right for you that ye should annoy Allah's Messenger, or that ye should marry his widows after him at any time." Quran [33:53]

Once again the Quran specifically tell people not to marry the mothers of the believers.

My point is that whenever something out of the ordinary is presented, there is mention of it in the Quran. But in the case of the prophets inheritance nothing is mentioned.

p.s i do respect ur comments and can see your logic

my point is that there are several things unique for prophet(Saw) yes or no? you will say yes.. its another issues that where they are mentioned..

But the bottom line is that they have certain issues that are unique, so it shouldn't seem to be weird to someone if a thing is brought that is specific to prophets from authentic ahadees acknowledged by both shia and sunnis.

Further more your argument is weakened by the fact that the Shia Ulema themselves make exceptions in the rules of inheritance. For example, the Quran declares that children inherit wealth from their parents. However, the Shia Ulema (as well as the Sunni Ulema) make an exception to this general rule: Kaffir children do not inherit from their Muslim parents. Hence, not everyone is encompassed in the Quranic verse regarding inheritance; it is the general rule for the average person, but there are exceptions for special cases (and Prophets are one such exception).

Unfortunately for the Shia, their own Infallible Imams have made exceptions to the rules of inheritance that would make any Shia accusations against the Sunnis to be simply hypocritical and sanctimonious. For example, the Shia Infallible Imams have prohibited some heirs from inheriting certain items of their estates, including the Dhul Fiqar (Ali’s sword [رضّى الله عنه]), the Quran, the Prophet’s ring, and his bodily garments. These items were excluded from the Quranic laws of inheritance and reserved for the new Imam, instead of being properly distributed amongst the other children and eligible heirs. Hence, Imams had a different system of inheritance, so why is it surprising for the Shia that the Prophets also have their own system of inheritance distinct from non-Prophets?

The Quran gives the general rule, and then the Hadith give the details and exceptions to this rule. For example, the Quran says that men can only marry upto four wives. And yet, we find in Hadith that the Prophet (saw) was exempted from this ruling and he married more than four. Thus, the rules of Hadith grant an exception to the Prophets, and their rules are different than the rules of ordinary people as mentioned in the Quran. If the rule about marrying four women can be different for Prophets, then similarly we see no problem in the rules of inheritance also being different for Prophets. The analogy is perfect, and completely negates the Shia claims.

"It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as hand maidens) and Allah doth watch over all things ". [Al-Qur’an 33:52]

The Quran explicitly mentions where the prophet has a unique ruling addressed to him, that he unlike other Muslims can have more than four wifes. Whenever the Quran wishes to adorn the prophet with a trait that differs from the rest of the ummah it is explicitly mentioned. But there is no specific mention of the the inheritance of the prophet in the Quran. Where does the quran says in the verse you provided that he can have more than four wives? It just says that he cannot marry more women. And nor that he can exchange them.

[WaicurtaitfuT]

Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 39, Number 521:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

The Prophet concluded a contract with the people of Khaibar to utilize the land on the condition that half the products of fruits or vegetation would be their share. The Prophet used to give his wives one hundred Wasqs each, eighty Wasqs of dates and twenty Wasqs of barley. (When 'Umar became the Caliph) he gave the wives of the Prophet the option of either having the land and water as their shares, or carrying on the previous practice. Some of them chose the land and some chose the Wasqs, and 'Aisha chose the land.

That land was already the share of wives, which was under the contract with jews that is why half of the vegetation WAS DISTRIBUTED ONLY AMONG WIVES.....

Thus when hz umar(ra) became the caliph he didnt give it as inheritance to the wives... But he returned them their own property NOT inheritance of prophet(Saw)...

[WaicurtaitfuT]

If the hadith goes against the Quran then it is invalid. And i would encourage you to go to a shia fourm to get your answer if you are so eager. Maybe you can guide them.

Well well do you what happened when i posted that stuff on shiachat? Wallahi the shias didnt even dare to reply and i remeber a shia sister (i guess hameedah) came up and declared that , she DOESN'T believes now that fadak was to be inherited by fatima(ra) but that it was a gift.

And the moderators got so scared that they deleted my posts from the thread.. lol..

And its a fact that this questions has put the shias on fire... you cannot expect any straight and academic reply from them on this issue, expect some idiotic answers that the hadees are weak since going against quran(THOUGH THEIR GIANT SCHOLARS AUTHENTICATED THEM, SO DOES THAT MEAN YOUR GREAT SCHOLARS DIDNT EVEN KNEW SIMPLE LAWS OF QURAN ?) And the fact is that for unbiased shia this actually ends the long time debate of fadak being inheritance of prophet(saw). I hope that this too gets into your brain. Ameen....

[Ad0i89Od]

The idea of Prophets not leaving inheritance is indeed unlikely and unjust. .

Salama

They do leave inheritance BUT NOT MATERIAL THINGS like money and lands Unless stated otherwise by the Prophet PBUH himself... Some Prophets left The Prophethood to their children, They left knowledge, some inherited the positions of head of the house and the bloodline and so on... Not Cash and Money.

[Necedofer]

Well well do you what happened when i posted that stuff on shiachat? Wallahi the shias didnt even dare to reply and i remeber a shia sister (i guess hameedah) came up and declared that , she DOESN'T believes now that fadak was to be inherited by fatima(ra) but that it was a gift.

And the moderators got so scared that they deleted my posts from the thread.. lol..
[/B]

Rather than celebrating your victory over some kids, it maybe more prudent to know that the Prophet (AS) has been given a specific position on marrying more than four. He (AS) was instructed to marry no more after that. See Surah 33:50-52 for details. Try to refrain from making claims that the Quran doesn't say something, just because you're unaware of it.

[Ad0i89Od]

Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 39, Number 521:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

The Prophet concluded a contract with the people of Khaibar to utilize the land on the condition that half the products of fruits or vegetation would be their share. The Prophet used to give his wives one hundred Wasqs each, eighty Wasqs of dates and twenty Wasqs of barley. (When 'Umar became the Caliph) he gave the wives of the Prophet the option of either having the land and water as their shares, or carrying on the previous practice. Some of them chose the land and some chose the Wasqs, and 'Aisha chose the land.

This is not the inheritance you're looking for, It was mentioned in the SAHIH hadith that whatever he leaves is a Sadaqah except the Nafaqah of his wives.

قال الحافظ ابن حجر « وأنما كان عمر يعطيهن ذلك لأنه e قال: ما تركت بعد نفقة نسائي فهو صدقة» (فتح الباري5/13) Al Hafiz ibn Hajar stated the Hadith of the Prophet PBUH: "What is left (Of my money) after the Nafaqah of my wives then it becomes Sadaqah" [Fath al bari fi Sharh Sahih al bukhari]
Grading: SAHIH.

Because his wives have no one to provide for them (Unlike Fatima RA who has Ali, Hassan, Hussein ect..) So He specified an amount to sustain his wives after his death but the rest is Sadaqah. His wives did not even take their own Houses which they live in because they belong to the Prophet PBUH, normally when his wife dies her family should inherit her house, Since the Wives of the Prophet PBUH did not inherit the houses from him The Caliphs used the houses to enlarge the Prophet's PBUH mosque.

[Ad0i89Od]

Also, this fact (i.e. Prophets not leaving inheritance) was narrated by Abu Bakr as-Siddiq from the Prophet Sallahu Alayhi Wasallam. One of them is infallible and one of them is famous for his truthfulness (he is not called Siddiq for nothing). We, of Ahlus Sunnah, accept Hadith as a source of ruling. Is that not enough?

Salam Aleykum,

Those who narrated the Hadith "We do not give inheritance what we leave is Sadaqah" was narrated from the Prophet PBUH by: Abu Bakr, Uthman, Ali, Talha, Al-Zubair, Sa'ad bin Abi Waqqas, Abdul Rahman bin Awf, Al Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib, The Mothers of believers, Abu Huraira, Huthayfah bin al Yaman may Allah be pleased with all of them.

Source: Al Aqeedah fi Ahlul Bayt p444.

[WaicurtaitfuT]

Rather than celebrating your victory over some kids, it maybe more prudent to know that the Prophet (AS) has been given a specific position on marrying more than four. He (AS) was instructed to marry no more after that. See Surah 33:50-52 for details. Try to refrain from making claims that the Quran doesn't say something, just because you're unaware of it.

ok.. but my other points too are strong enough to crush the shia view:

my point is that there are several things unique for prophet(Saw) yes or no? you will say yes.. its another issues that where they are mentioned..

But the bottom line is that they have certain issues that are unique, so it shouldn't seem to be weird to someone if a thing is brought that is specific to prophets from authentic ahadees acknowledged by both shia and sunnis.

Further more your argument is weakened by the fact that the Shia Ulema themselves make exceptions in the rules of inheritance. For example, the Quran declares that children inherit wealth from their parents. However, the Shia Ulema (as well as the Sunni Ulema) make an exception to this general rule: Kaffir children do not inherit from their Muslim parents. Hence, not everyone is encompassed in the Quranic verse regarding inheritance; it is the general rule for the average person, but there are exceptions for special cases (and Prophets are one such exception).

Unfortunately for the Shia, their own Infallible Imams have made exceptions to the rules of inheritance that would make any Shia accusations against the Sunnis to be simply hypocritical and sanctimonious. For example, the Shia Infallible Imams have prohibited some heirs from inheriting certain items of their estates, including the Dhul Fiqar (Ali’s sword [رضّى الله عنه]), the Quran, the Prophet’s ring, and his bodily garments. These items were excluded from the Quranic laws of inheritance and reserved for the new Imam, instead of being properly distributed amongst the other children and eligible heirs. Hence, Imams had a different system of inheritance, so why is it surprising for the Shia that the Prophets also have their own system of inheritance distinct from non-Prophets?

AND STILL THERE IS NO SENSIBLE RESPONSE FROM ANY SHIA TO ANSWER MY QUESTION IN FIRST POST...I DONT KNOW WHY SHIAS DONT HAVE GUTS TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.. BUT THEY KNOW ONLY TO ASK QUESTIONS..