[ballerturfali]

Recently , some relatives living in the UK told me some sad anecdotes of madrasah graduates.

Those graduates are not interested in the Islamic activities as expected. Now those frustrated parents have told my close relatives not to send their kids to the madrasah any more.

I think that something is wrong about some madarasah in the UK.
However, this issue of failure is also present in some Islamic schools in the UK.
Parents expected that those schools would save their kids from the bad influence of
the surrounding culture . But, in reality , the outcome is different. The high school graduates are also attracted to the sinful culture of sex, music and "be cool "


What is the reason ? Do you have any answer ?

[DoctorDeryOne]

asalaamu alaykum

i dont know why desi parents rely on the madrassahs and schools to do the tarbiyyah of their children...they are there to educate them...the parents are there for tarbiyyah...they put them in the care of others and then complain about them turning out bad :s

the madrassah teachers teach them right from wrong...apart from this what more are they supposed to do?

[Aeaefee]

asalaamu alaykum

i dont know why desi parents rely on the madrassahs and schools to do the tarbiyyah of their children...they are there to educate them...the parents are there for tarbiyyah...they put them in the care of others and then complain about them turning out bad :s

the madrassah teachers teach them right from wrong...apart from this what more are they supposed to do?

Indeed! Tarbiyyah is in the home. You cannot send your children to even a madrassah and expect them to come out perfect Muslims. What's stranger still is parents thinking weekend school will do it. Sure, okay, for three hours out of 168, a weekend school will make your children good Muslims. Who's kidding who?

[DoctorDeryOne]

/\ exactly! also some madrassahs are now packed with mischievous kids that don't want to be there because their parents noticed they are going off the rails so they thought the solution to this is to dump them in a madrassah...the child is not interested in learning Islam and now he/she corrupts the other children there too

also how often do we see desi parents threaten children about madrasah teachers..."i will tell maulana you did this today!" they make the children think of Islamic teachers as people we should fear....they put hatred of deen in the hearts of children and use it as a means of punishment...and then they wonder why their kids are so far away from Islam

[Aeaefee]

The real solution is to put the good kids in madrassah, the bad kids- I don't know, read Riyadh us-Saliheen with them for a little while before bed; recite Qur'an with them, tell them stories of the Prophets- whatever it is that works. Not having had any children yet, I would not know...

But a friend of mine, and I, we're filling in for real teachers at a weekend school... it's crazy. Some of the kids my friend had, they were age 9 or 10 or 11, and only one person in the whole class knew what the 6 articles of eeman are and what the 5 pillars of Islam are. I'm doing the older class, and none of the sisters wear proper hijab (most don't wear it at all), they all wear tight jeans, and most of them don't know anything. I don't know what to do, but like I said, I talk to them for like an hour a week and they're on their own for 167. What am I even supposed to do to counteract everything else?

...seriously, any ideas?

[Frodogzzz]

asalaamu alaykum

i dont know why desi parents rely on the madrassahs and schools to do the tarbiyyah of their children...they are there to educate them...the parents are there for tarbiyyah...they put them in the care of others and then complain about them turning out bad :s

the madrassah teachers teach them right from wrong...apart from this what more are they supposed to do?

right answer
why people attack every time on madaris and their students,even those people who never visited any jamia and 1 more thing is that in which part of deen these things are not present?

[Yswxomvy]

Assalamu Alaykum, because they are poorly paid, dictated to by ignorant committee members who have little or no knowledge of Islam, and parents who think they have a right to lambast the molvi, but wouldn't dream of doing such a thing at school because (a) of the value they have for academic education and (b) the inferiority complex they suffer when they see white skin.

[arindiruppyr]

Almost all children now believe they go to school to pass exams. The idea that they may be there for an education is irrelevant. State schools have become exam factories, interested only in A to C Grades. They do not educate children. Exam results do not reflect a candidate’s innate ability. Employers have moaned for years that too many employees cannot read or write properly. According to a survey, school-leavers and even graduates lack basic literacy and numeracy skills. More and more companies are having to provide remedial training to new staff, who can’t write clear instructions, do simple maths, or solve problems. Both graduates and school-leavers were also criticised for their sloppy time-keeping, ignorance of basic customer service and lack of self-discipline.



Bilingual Muslims children have a right, as much as any other faith group, to be taught their culture, languages and faith alongside a mainstream curriculum. More faith schools will be opened under sweeping reforms of the education system in England. There is a dire need for the growth of state funded Muslim schools to meet the growing needs and demands of the Muslim parents and children. Now the time has come that parents and community should take over the running of their local schools. Parent-run schools will give the diversity, the choice and the competition that the wealthy have in the private sector. Parents can perform a better job than the Local Authority because parents have a genuine vested interest. The Local Authority simply cannot be trusted.



The British Government is planning to make it easier to schools to “opt out” from the Local Authorities. Muslim children in state schools feel isolated and confused about who they are. This can cause dissatisfaction and lead them into criminality, and the lack of a true understanding of Islam can ultimately make them more susceptible to the teachings of fundamentalists like Christians during the middle ages and Jews in recent times in Palestine. Fundamentalism is nothing to do with Islam and Muslim; you are either a Muslim or a non-Muslim.



There are hundreds of state primary and secondary schools where Muslim pupils are in majority. In my opinion all such schools may be opted out to become Muslim Academies. This mean the Muslim children will get a decent education. Muslim schools turned out balanced citizens, more tolerant of others and less likely to succumb to criminality or extremism. Muslim schools give young people confidence in who they are and an understanding of Islam’s teaching of tolerance and respect which prepares them for a positive and fulfilling role in society. Muslim schools are attractive to Muslim parents because they have better discipline and teaching Islamic values. Children like discipline, structure and boundaries. Bilingual Muslim children need Bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods, who understand their needs and demands.



None of the British Muslims convicted following the riots in Bradford and Oldham in 2001 or any of those linked to the London bombings had been to Islamic schools. An American Think Tank studied the educational back ground of 300 Jihadists; none of them were educated in Pakistani Madrasas. They were all Western educated by non-Muslim teachers. Bilingual Muslim children need bilingual Muslim teachers as role models. A Cambridge University study found that single-sex classes could make a big difference for boys. They perform better in single-sex classes. The research is promising because male students in the study saw noticeable gains in the grades. The study confirms the Islamic notion that academic achievement is better in single-sex classes.
IA
http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

[space-on-s]

I was searching some answers ,I found this thread interesting.

also how often do we see desi parents threaten children about madrasah teachers..."i will tell maulana you did this today!" they make the children think of Islamic teachers as people we should fear....they put hatred of deen in the hearts of children and use it as a means of punishment...and then they wonder why their kids are so far away from Islam

I thought this is the mentality of only indian parents.I have visited to my native place and there are so many madrasa.What I have seen their Students are not interested in joining madrasa,many times they lie ,they are saying going to madrasa and they bunk the class.Roaming in the market and came back home.Most of them fear of punishment because they haven't done their homework.

[kabelshik]

I think this is more to do with the parents than the madrasah itself. In the culture I am from I know some families appoint just one kid to go and learn deen- this kid tends to be the worst sometimes. He goes does his ta'leem and graduates to sometimes become a failure or he falls in love with deen and becomes a stranger in his family and isn't given much status. Illa Mashaa Allah. Sometimes infact the house has no Islamic tarbiyyah and you hear of a child being admitted to madrasah, I really don't understand why the deeni institutes have to cope with such a child. I know of a case where a boy from a good practising family went astray after going to darul uloom after meeting some of those other children. Allahu Akbar. It's really sad. I have also seen how parents don't change their way of nurturing their kids when they come over for holiday. Sometimes these kids of hifz are fed with video games and what not! SubhanAllah, I worry for that child.

With two different atmospheres he has to juggle, Allah knows what is going on in that child's mind. If he was forced to get into madrasah then it can be due to rebellion. Just like if you threw a bouncing ball into a wall, it might bounce back at you. When the heart isn't there, then wouldn't the mind sway? If the child feels like dunya is fun then wouldn't he be yearning to leave madrasah and get involved. I guess this is what it is. No real interest. The parents may not be presenting deen as the only true source of peace because they themselves don't show that interest. Once I asked a little boy I teach "Why do you think after all that we know about Allah, Muslims still don't pray or fast etc..." he said "Because maybe the good things are hard and the bad things are fun". Khair I tried to explain to him the reality, but you can see what goes on in their minds. Islam needs to be presented as it is. Peace for the soul.

After all of that, some parents are not to blame. Some brilliant parents put their children into these systems and some of their kids have excelled mashaa Allah. Others tried, but sadly the child went astray due to company. I feel that wherever a child is sent for education, it should be seen that their company is good. No matter which corner of the earth, if bad company prevails it, we shouldn't put the children in those corners, even if it is a madrasah. This can be easily averted by explaining to the child well before hand why he is going to madrasah and who he should make sure he accompanies. I feel parents even have the right of being forceful if their children and inclining to the bad company. Before any love grows in a childs heart for a naughty child, he should be removed from that situation.

The madrasah can have shortcomings, I am not sure. They should have enough recreational activities and a good Islamic disciplinary code in use. If all of that is there then at the end of the day it is upto Allah who follows guidance. A person with an ounce of passion to learn will not mind whatever. He will live through the hardest of conditions if he has to. He will embrace all hardships and he will not allow people to pull him back. When that passion isn't there, he will easily be influenced.

wAllahu 'alam. Just somethings based on experience.

[VYholden]

The real solution is to put the good kids in madrassah, the bad kids- I don't know, read Riyadh us-Saliheen with them for a little while before bed; recite Qur'an with them, tell them stories of the Prophets- whatever it is that works. Not having had any children yet, I would not know...

This is not the solution. Dawah and tarbiyyah cannot be limited to the elite in deen only. It defeats the whole purpose. You take on kids who have no deen in them and try your best to INSTILL deen into their lives. You show good examples, you tackle THEIR problems and address THEIR issues. You take time to visit them and win them over. You work on the parents at the same time too and above all, you make dua. Slowly but surely, you see change. Where would we all be if the madaaris had only allowed practising kids into the madrasah. My parents were not very practising 25 years ago.

[Hoglaunccoolf]

Bismillah
There are many aspects of this.
1. Too many such darul ulm
All we need few good institutes that is well funded and financed. Fully dedicated to Islamic knowledge and be connected to path of tassawuf as well. Afterall we need expert

2. The others should have adopt a a generic model where basic shariah along with secular education be provided. Different title should be given to the graduates of these institutes and be tied to in relegious sense to the specialised insistutes as mentioned above.

3. The muslims in general should stop sending their lion share of the charity money to abroad and focus on developing world class institute here in UK. Stop funding building darul ulm in India & Gujrat and focus on supporting other impoversihed muslim countries such as africa.

It is pathetic the likes of Ebrahim community college is forced to seek assistance by going on to radio or TV.

4. Parents can't take a easy way out by dumping their children at the door of a relegious institue. Both parents need to be relegiously involved under the guidance of local seassoned scholar and connected to tassawuf.

Allahualam

[kilibry]

Love of Knowledge is missing from our culture. We are materialistic and only value that knowledge which will increase our dunya, our status. Parents are interested in making money, name and fame...children are the same...forcing them to attend a Islamic school usually back fires. Having a TV and all sorts of other influences in the home puts all sorts of 'crazy' ideas into children, expecting them to be good Muslims after being exposed to this is going to lead to disappointment. Knowledge should be a passion.

Recently , some relatives living in the UK told me some sad anecdotes of madrasah graduates.

Those graduates are not interested in the Islamic activities as expected. Now those frustrated parents have told my close relatives not to send their kids to the madrasah any more.

I think that something is wrong about some madarasah in the UK.
However, this issue of failure is also present in some Islamic schools in the UK.
Parents expected that those schools would save their kids from the bad influence of
the surrounding culture . But, in reality , the outcome is different. The high school graduates are also attracted to the sinful culture of sex, music and "be cool "


What is the reason ? Do you have any answer ?

[Qnnoshxj]

As-Salamu ´alaykum,

Ok, we understand that misbehaving children go to madrasas and "corrupt" other children. But don't these kids deserve a chance to learn the Deen and perhaps get close to Allah Ta´ala? Obviously they are struggling with that outside of the madrasa. Many parents do not value Islamic learning and use the Deen as a punishment, only sending the "bad seed" to the madrasa to be sorted out. However, often they are not encouraged to do well in Islamic studies by their parents, and when they graduate they are expected to be well behaved, not "too" religious, and get a job at asda (as they have no secular education). In other words, many parents just use madrasas as a way to opt out of parenting when it gets tough. Yes there are problems in many madrasas, but the problems don't start and end there.

wa Allahu a´lam.

[myspacepro]

i am in the uk and was actually considering studying in a malasyian maddrash in the future, I am quite supprised

[Qnnoshxj]

i am in the uk and was actually considering studying in a malasyian maddrash in the future, I am quite supprised

If that was in relation to my post, let me add that I was referring specifically to the situation in the UK and not in Malaysia. Although, it does not mean that everything is all great in Malaysia.

[Hoglaunccoolf]

Unknownentity
Your statment is very simplistic. The likes of zaituna institute sits between seuclar education and relegious education. Its focus is different from fully focused islamic seminary. They will not produce great muhadith or a faqiah unlike the traditional seminaries. The only issue is there is general perception of dissconnect between the intelectual and Scholars of shariah.

Both types of insitutes are needed. I have already mentioned this in my earlier post. The likes of Jaituna may be able to bridge between secular world and a relegious one for the mass public but in relegious scholasitic field will remain lacking. Jack of all but master of none.

If you know anyting of muslim history and its academic history, you will know memorising text is considered as a tool. Only when the information is memorised, research work took place giving rise to the golden era. Hence every single notable scholar of the past were hifz of quran, hadith and commentry.
Allahualam

[swissloveone]

One problem is:
When teaching kids 50 mins are spent controlling the class and only ten mins are spent teaching. Anyone know of any good controlling techniques?

[vernotixas]

One problem is:
When teaching kids 50 mins are spent controlling the class and only ten mins are spent teaching. Anyone know of any good controlling techniques?

Are you assuming this but know this factual regards to the darul ulooms in the UK?

[swissloveone]

Are you assuming this but know this factual regards to the darul ulooms in the UK?

It is really hard to control kids maybe some of these armchair ustaads would like a try. No offence.