[jimbomaxf]

I don't know if this issue exists in other masajid or not (I'm sure it does to an extent everywhere these days), but in one of our local masajid where I normally go, the buzurg uncles (elders) always end up fighting and arguing inside the masjid.

For example, often times during the daily mashwara, it turns into an argument. What's worse is that majority of the times these arguments are over extremely petty things, stuff that would just not be worth arguing about whether inside the masjid or not... just really small insignificant things. Even if it's something that's not "insignificant", there should be more respect for the masjid than treating it like it's a place to argue and fight.

Masha'Allah, these are buzurgs who seem to know the deen, most go on their 40 days, 4 months, 3 days monthly and all that good stuff, they'll always be found in the masjid reciting Quran, they pray salat 5 times in the masjid, etc... Alhamdulillah. They could tell you "six points" in their sleep probably, and give you a nice lecture on "ikraam-ul-muslimeen" (respect for fellow Muslims). They could sit there and tell you several sunnahs of the Prophet and how the Sahaba made so many sacrifices for the deen, how they used to treat each other like they were blood brothers, how Islam was so prevalent in the world, etc etc.

Yet, they don't seem to understand that they are violating so much of what they preach and believe every time they act like that. It's like, we'll have mashwara after salat, the mood will be really spiritual because we just made salat and Alhamdulillah heard such nice recitation of the Quran and what not, made Zikr of Allah afterwards, and then mashwara starts with a nice talk of the deen, and some how someone picks on some little thing someone else is saying/said or is doing/did, among a variety of other stuff, and it turns into this big loud argument and just completely spoils the whole 'spiritual experience' which I just mentioned. It's not just at the mashwara but rather in general. With some of these "uncles", they can't seem to cross paths without getting into it with one another, even if the masjid is full of brothers making salat and they know their salat will be disturbed by them arguing and even at times cursing each other (forget about the fact that even talking so loud even if not arguing shouldn't be done while others are making salat, but here we're talking about all-out arguing).

Though this is the Masjid I normally used to go to on and off for the past few years, I've personally only been involved in this masjid regularly for a year or so and I have watched this happen over and over again. From what I hear, it's always been like that and is nothing new. I tried asking some of the brothers who don't get involved with these arguments what is the deal with people always arguing here, and one of them told me something like these elders have been coming to this mosque for ages and they are set in the ways they think and they just don't understand anything other than the way they have been for years and years.

Alhamdulillah, I have always been able to tell myself that I am there to make salat and be in the house of Allah to connect with Him, and to make effort for the deen, so I need to look past these things and not let them get to me and just stay focused on the main purpose I am there, which is to make my salat and connect with Allah . The thoughts of stopping to participate in the daily mashwara or going to another masjid (Alhamdulillah we have a few within close driving distance) have come into my mind here and there, but I always just told myself what I just mentioned before. I've also always thought (and still think) that if I stay patient and just continue to be involved, Insha'Allah one way or another Allah swt will change everyone's hearts. I continue to make dua for the same and I have complete faith that Allah swt will change our hearts when the time is right. Allah knows best.

However, lately I have seriously been considering going to other mosques in the area and distancing myself from this masjid, especially after the extremely loud arguments which have taken place over and over again recently (again, over small, petty things). Keep in mind that, Alhamdulillah, by the grace of Allah SWT, I have become very much 'involved' at this masjid on a daily basis so it's not like I go there once a week and it doesn't matter if I start going to a different masjid instead. This is "my" masjid and I am now contemplating "switching" masajids because of the issues described above. I have gone for salat at some of the other masajids in the area a few times lately and Alhamdulillah had an amazing experience at all of them and met some amazing brothers, so the possibility of meeting new brothers and sort of getting a "fresh start" is exciting on one hand, but on the other hand I'm afraid that everything always seems good at the surface and once I become "involved" at a deeper level then it would be the same, with people not getting along and what not. Insha'Allah I am wrong on that.

The other thing is that these elders are obviously much, much older than me so I can't really get myself to say anything to them when, like I said, they seem to be so knowledgeable with the deen already and involved with the TJ effort and all that good stuff, so who am I to say anything to them? Our Imam sahab is fairly young also so he usually just ends up staying quiet through the arguments also and can't really do/say anything to get their behavior under control. As far as the masjid "management", that's a whole another issue which I won't get into, but in short they're not any less argumentative than any of the other elders around.

Another effect of this is that every time such a scene happens, it makes for "bad" thoughts in my heart for these buzurgs, because I start thinking stuff like why they're arguing when they're supposed to be the champions of the deen, etc. Alhamdulillah I try to stop this sort of thoughts as soon as they start, but the point is that these thoughts try to manifest in my heart nonetheless and I feel I may be at risk of dirtying my already extremely dirty heart and collecting not-so-nice thoughts about these brothers in my heart & mind if I continue to witness such scenes; so that's another reason sometimes I think about just walking away for now.

If I did start going to another masjid due to these reasons, I wouldn't want to just disappear and have people wondering why I stopped coming to the masjid. Rather I would like to tell them my reasons for leaving, in the hope that maybe they would see what sort of effect their behavior has on others. But, again, don't know if saying "I'm not coming to this masjid anymore because you guys are always arguing" and then leaving is such a good idea.

I've even thought about making this sort of post here for a while now but I didn't want it to be considered as backbiting and also just didn't know if it was a good idea or not, so I held myself back. I have tried to choose my words carefully and may Allah swt forgive me if I said anything that I shouldn't be saying. Ameen.

What is the input of fellow brothers and sisters here?

Please make dua that Allah swt unite the hearts of brothers at our masjid, all masajid, the entire Muslim ummah and all of mankind. Ameen.

[Berta]

difference of opinion is a blessing from Allah.
remember there were diferences between hadrat Ali & ameer e ma'aviya & they were so much that hey had to come in the battle field face to face.
when king of rome heared this, he wanted to attack madina. but that news reached ameer e ma'viya before hadrat ali.
ameer e ma'aviya rad replied to him in a letter with these wordings
"O DOG OF ROME! i have heared that u want to benefit from our differences.
remember if u attack , the first soldier in Ali's lashkar U 'll find will be Ameere ma'aviya"

even though there were differences , the love for each other for the sake of Allah was there in them
& i presume that in sha Allah same will be there between those old workers if an external threat comes..

[Eromaveabeara]

Salam 'Aleykum,

I've never seen this happen in any Masjid I went to.

[JEWELMARGY]

Salam 'Aleykum,

I've never seen this happen in any Masjid I went to.

i've heard of many incidents but only in bengali masjids and always elders.
i've seen it only once during ramadan again bengali masjid by an elder who didn't want to hear the naseeha by the imam.

[Eromaveabeara]

i've heard of many incidents but only in bengali masjids and always elders.
i've seen it only once during ramadan again bengali masjid by an elder who didn't want to hear the naseeha by the imam.

So elders are basically what? grumpy old men?

[movlabc]

i've heard of many incidents but only in bengali masjids and always elders.
i've seen it only once during ramadan again bengali masjid by an elder who didn't want to hear the naseeha by the imam.

Come on bro, such are low blow to bengali elders....oh shoot...come to think of it, your right :P

[Eujacwta]

I've seen this occur a couple of times at a nice Masjid in Derby where there is a battle for control between the committee and their supporters (only a few) and the Imam and his, and they were kashmiris not bengalis.

It would perhaps be a strangely entertaining spectacle (not in a good way) if it was not in a Masjid.

[EntectCelpelm]

Sad how all the efforts of these people are going to waste .
Because at the end of the day all their passion and zeal are ultimately for satisfying their own ego which has polluted their Ikhlas towards Allah.
This is common everywhere , might not be as apparent though.

I have sensed ' cold wars ' going on in the elder circle of the two mosques I frequent.
This has more to do with the individuals struggle for what they suppose is their position in the community.

It makes me think . Allah help us not to become such sorry cases when we are old and worn
out . Older you become more hard it gets to change yourself for Allah.

It is true that the best time to worship Allah is in your youth by the time your old your heart diseases take over you physically and spiritually .

[phinno13]

I remember one conversation I had... (abridged form)

I asked mufti (if Im not mistaken his name is) Fayzul Rahman saheb (he's from Pakistan)

Me: Mufti saheb, why is it that I do not feel the same impact like the first time we go khuruj with jamaat? Before, we used to look at the good qualities of others. But now, we see the bad even in foreign jamaat ?

Mufti saheb: Do you remember Hanzalah's r.a. story ?

Me: which story (as I feel that he is a mufti, he knows a lot more stories than I have read) ?

Mufti saheb: the story of Hanzalah munafiq (ie the famous story that hazrat Hanzalah r.a. feel that he has become a munafiq).

Me: Yes (yet I still do not understand what the story has anything to do with my question)... ? (me still want more explaination)

Mufti saheb: Hazrat Hanzalah r.a. felt he is a munafiq because he did not have the same feeling when he was with Rasulullah s.a.w. and when he is at home with his family. Rasulullah s.a.w. said (more or less) that if he is able to keep the same feeling... the malaikah (angels) would greet him in his walks and in bed. But O Hanzalah ! This is rare! This is rare ! (ie not common)

Me: (still wanting to know more) O mufti saheb, are you the same ? (ie I wanted to know if mufti saheb see the bad side of other too)
(May ALLAH forgive me for being bold in asking an alim in such disrespectful manner)

Mufti saheb: Oh hoo... if you know me, you would run away from me.

Hence, my understanding (from my conversation with hazrat mufti saheb) is that this is a common disease (sin?) that we (common people) indulge in. Not many people (ie very rare) is able to keep their heart pure from all this disease. If we are able to do that, the angels would greet us while we are walking and while we are in bed. But it is rare.

However, it is our duty to tell ourselves (ie dakwat to our own self) that we should not look at these things, and make istighfar if this occur upon us and try to look away.

wallaahu a'lam.

[Hetgvwic]

i've heard of many incidents but only in bengali masjids and always elders.
i've seen it only once during ramadan again bengali masjid by an elder who didn't want to hear the naseeha by the imam.

It must be all the rice they eat.
That said, I have seen it extremely rarely in my country, but I live pretty far away from West Bengal.
Once Hadrat Bahlul passed by a scholar who was quarreling with someone. Bahlul (rah) said, “If this person had gnosis (ma’rifah) of Allah, he would not have wasted his time quarreling with an ignoramus.”
Since most such grumps are ignoramuses we ought to avoid wasting our time fighting with them.

[Berta]

for the Quote dr saheb.


Once Hadrat Bahlul passed by a scholar who was quarreling with someone. Bahlul (rah) said,
“If this person had gnosis (ma’rifah) of Allah, he would not have wasted his time quarreling with an ignoramus.”

[jhfkgkfdvjk]

I have been hesitating posting this but I think I should after reading comments on other threads too

sufyan al thawri ..made dua..oh allah give me a house away from the people of worship. there is no use in me living with people who only remember my weaknesses .and become jealous of my good deeds and comfort

hadhrat fudhayl r.a. said ya allah I prefer illness to going to the mosque for jamaat where there is only gheebah and ill will to each other

and remember this was in days better than these days


3 mins 40 secs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXbrx...endscreen&NR=1




disclaimer..im not advocating missing salah with jamaat