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04-24-2012, 05:02 AM
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#1 |
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 Earth rests on a whale - Can someone please explain?
It was said that Nun refers to a great whale that rides on the currents of the waters of the great ocean and on its back it carries the severn Earths, as was stated by Imam Abu Jafar Ibn Jarir. Narrated by Ibn Bashar, narrated by Yahya, narrated by Sufyan Al-Thuri, narrated by Sulayman Al-Amash, narrated by Abu Thubian, narrated by Ibn Abbas who related, "The first thing that Allah created was the pen and He said to it ‘Write’. The pen asked, ‘What shall I write?’ Allah said, ‘Write (the) fate (of everything).’ So the pen wrote everything that shall be from that moment until judgment day.
Then Allah created the "Nun" and He caused steam to rise out of which the heavens were created and the Earth was then laid flat on nun’s back. Then the Nun became nervous and (as a result) the earth began to sway, but (Allah) fastened (the earth) with mountains lest the earth should move ... It was narrated by Ibn Jarir, narrated by Ibn Hamid, narrated by Ata’a, narrated by Abu Al-Dahee, narrated by Ibn Abbas who stated, "The first thing my Lord created, may He be Exalted and Glorified, was the pen and He said to it, ‘Write.’ So the pen wrote all that will be until judgment day. Then Allah created the Nun (the whale) above the waters and he pressed the Earth into its back. Al Tabarani narrated the same hadith above (from the prophet Muhammad) who narrated from Abu Habib Zaid Al-Mahdi Al Marouzi, narrated by Sa’id Ibn Yaqub Al-Talqani, narrated by Mu’amal Ibn Ismail, narrated by Hamad Ibn Zaid, narrated by Ata’a Ibn Al Sa’ib, narrated by Abu Al Dahee Muslim Ibn Subaih, narrated by Ibn Abbas who stated that the prophet – may peace and blessing be upon him and his family - said, "The first things Allah created were the pen and the whale and He said to the pen ‘Write.’ The pen asked, ‘What shall I write?’ Allah replied, ‘Everything that shall be until judgment day.’ Then He said ‘Nun. By the Pen and by what they write.’ So Nun is the whale and al-Qalam is the pen" ... Ibn Abu Nujaih stated that Ibrahim Ibn Abu Bakir was informed by Mujahid who said, "It was said that Nun is the great whale who is underneath the seven Earths." Furthermore, Al-Baghawy – may Allah rest his soul - and a group of commentators stated that on the back of this whale there is a great rock whose thickness is greater than the width of the heavens and the earth and above this rock is a bull that has forty thousand horns. On the body of this bull are placed the seven earths and all that they contain, and Allah knows best. I recently came across the above and it's troubling me greatly, can someone please give me a detailed clarification. Firstly are any of these narrations or similar in the authentic books of hadith (the main 6 or others). What are scholars opinions on these narrations, and why are they included in classical tafsirs? quick reply would be nice  jzk
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04-24-2012, 05:11 AM
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#2 |
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I see you have done a cut and paste from one of the the anti-Islamic sections of wikipedia that is called Scientific Errors in the Hadith. This originates I believe on the anti-Islamic Christian website called answering Islam which has this same collection of text, but with some bolding and capitalization.
This section of Wikipedia is anti-Islam propaganda piece that is based upon taking the symbolic as literal, distorting the meaning of the text and every other way that the enemies of Islam who have built these sections can think of to try and undermine Islam. This particular idea of the cosmic whale sounds very much like the inventions of the story tellers or more particular an idea with its roots amongst the Israiliat traditions (ones with origins amongst the Bani Israil). Indeed the Jews had developed some ideas very, very reminiscent of this one (such as those of the leviathan and rahab). This idea was certainly not one that carried on amongst the Muslims with any currency. Its the sort of irrelevant thing that you are only likely to read if you are visiting anti-Islamic websites. Muslim astronomers in the early era of the Ummah of Muhammad were teaching that the earth is a sphere. by the 800s CE (nearly 1200 years ago) they had calculated that the Earth's circumference was 40,253 km. This was an amazingly high degree of accuracy considering the technological limitations of the era (with modern technology we can say that it is 40,075 km) - pretty close  .The Western European non-Muslims were still burning people alive for saying the world was a sphere only a few centuries ago. |
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04-24-2012, 05:46 AM
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#3 |
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brother I have found out that the main work in which this is said (which is circulated as the tafsir Ibn Abbas)
is not an authentic or trustworthy work according to the scholars (including Mufti Taqi Usmani) and that it has passed only through a chain of narrators that has been classified by the scholars as a silsilatul kazb (in English we would call this a chain of lies.) |
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04-24-2012, 06:41 AM
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#4 |
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Brother I would be careful where you take your knowledge from.
Muslims taking their knowledge of and about Islam from the kuffar today. Is little different from Muslims taking their knowledge of and about Islam from the kuffar during the life of the Prophet (saws). Abu Lahab has many intellectual heirs and they will be happy to drag you to hell with them if you let them. |
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04-24-2012, 06:53 AM
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#5 |
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It's in Tafsir ibn kathir, the arabic version but not the english. Could you find out for me about the authenticity of the narrations as they are in tafsir ibn kathir. Jzk for the advice brother.
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04-24-2012, 07:05 AM
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#6 |
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Salaams its a pleasure brother
In fact, scholars have classed this (the narration of the earth being on a whale) as from Israeliyaat sources (sources from Judeo-Christian traditions) which have NOT been confirmed or proven as authentic at all. (Ibn Kathir - Al Bidaaya wal Nihaayaa¸ Volume 1 - Pg 15). Moreover: "Please refer to the following sources and see what the scholars have said regarding the weakness and fabrication of these narrations: Sheikh Albani, Silseelatil Al Ahaadeeth Al Da'eefa, Hadith no. 1253 & 6309 Al Dhahabi, Siyar A`laam-in-Nubulaa', Volume 4, page 61 & Volume 10, page 669 Ibn Rajab, Rasaail Ibn Rajab, Volume 3, page 138 Ibn 'Idi, Tahzheeb Al Tahzheeb, Volume 9, page 506 Ibn Hajar, Lisaan Al Meezaan, Volume 7, Hadith no. 572 Ibn Al Qaysaraani, Zhakeeratul Hufaaz, Volume 2, Hadith no. 1024 Fourthly, notice the strange difference between the narrations, some say that the Nun is a whale while the others are saying the Nun is an ink well. How can we rely on such narrations?" http://www.islamic-replies.ucoz.com/...ars_Reply.html |
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04-24-2012, 07:14 AM
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#7 |
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Isn't this the same?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...hia-Geographic |
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04-24-2012, 07:27 AM
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#8 |
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Haven't seen that thread, let me read through it. Jzk brother
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04-24-2012, 07:37 AM
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#9 |
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