[ElenaEvgeevnaa]

Bismillah, new scientific discoveries.

Prepare for news, which would turn your world up side down.

Shia scholar Kulayni in his “Kafi” 8/51 narrated:

55 – محمد عن أحمد عن ابن محبوب عن جميل بن صالح عن أبان بن تغلب عن أبي عبد الله (ع) قال: سألته عن الأرض على أي شيء هي؟ قال: هي على حوت قلت: فالحوت على أي شيء هو؟ قال: على الماء قلت: فالماء على أي شيء هو؟ قال: على صخرة قلت: فعلى أي شيء الصخرة؟ قال: على قرن ثور أملس قلت: فعلى أي شيء الثور؟ قال: على الثرى قلت: فعلى أي شيء الثرى؟ فقال: هيهات عند ذلك ضل علم العلما
Muhammad reported from Ahmad, from ibn Mahbub, from Jamil ibn Salih, from Aban ibn Taghlib, from Abu Abd Allah (upon whom be peace), who said, I asked him about the earth: Upon which does it stand forth? To which he replied: It stands forth upon a whale. I asked: Upon which does the whale stand forth? To which he replied: Upon water. I asked: Upon which does water stand forth? To which he replied: Upon a rock. I asked: Upon which does the rock stand forth? To which he replied: Upon a bull’s smooth horn. I asked: Upon which does the bull stand forth? To which he replied: Upon the ground. I asked: Upon which does the ground stand forth? To which he replied: What an idea? Therewith is lost the knowledge of the men of knowledge.

Other shia sheikh Al-Majlese in “Miratul uqul” said it’s saheeh.

(الحديث الخامس و الخمسون) [حديث الحوت على أي شي‏ء هو]
(2): صحيح.

SCANNED PAGES HERE:
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[Eromaveabeara]

Of course it's Sahih

[Nautilus]

....

[nushentelve]

Brothers, it would be better if you are careful and not make too much fun of things as you seem to be unaware of both the whale and the bull being mentioned in a similar context in the books of Imams of Ahl al-Sunnah, such as Ibn Katheer and al-Tabari. Among these statements are hadiths attributed to the Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi wa sallam.

wassalam

[KhJOHbTM]

Brothers, it would be better if you are careful and not make too much fun of things as you seem to be unaware of both the whale and the bull being mentioned in a similar context in the books of Imams of Ahl al-Sunnah, such as Ibn Katheer and al-Tabari.

wassalam

Being mentioned in sunni books doesn't make it Sahi. Those are weak ahadeeth. Imam Ahmed included those in his book of Ilal(i.e book of hidden defects). Whereas on the other hand shias called it sahi.

Secondly I would like to see that whether those (weaK) hadeeth in our books are from Israiliyat or those are marfu hadeeth.

[nushentelve]

Being mentioned in sunni books doesn't make it Sahi. Those are weak ahadeeth. Imam Ahmed included those in his book of Ilal(i.e book of hidden defects). Whereas on the other hand shias called it sahi.

Secondly I would like to see that whether those (weaK) hadeeth in our books are from Israiliyat or those are marfu hadeeth.

Feel free to read up on what Ibn Katheer, al-Tabari, al-Tabarani and others have narrated on this issue. The point is not whether they are authentic or not. But the fact that some people make fun of things just because it happens to be in Rafidi books and sounds strange to them, and at times it may be that he has made fun of something that was partially accepted, or accepted by some authorities from Ahl al-Sunnah. Ridiculing it then becomes disrespectful towards those authorities. It is one thing to be interested in conducting research, another to overstep ones boundaries in ridiculing hadiths when one is not trained in the Ulum of Hadith. The same goes for issues of Fiqh etc.

wassalam

[KhJOHbTM]

Feel free to read up on what Ibn Katheer, al-Tabari, al-Tabarani and others have narrated on this issue. The point is not whether they are authentic or not. But the fact that some people make fun of things just because it happens to be in Rafidi books and sounds strange to them, and at times it may be that he has made fun of something that was partially accepted, or accepted by some authorities from Ahl al-Sunnah. Ridiculing it then becomes disrespectful towards those authorities. It is one thing to be interested in conducting research, another to overstep ones boundaries in ridiculing hadiths when one is not trained in the Ulum of Hadith. The same goes for issues of Fiqh etc.

wassalam

Shias just didn't included those ahadeeth in their books, rather they AUTHENTICATED THEM.

[Xcqjwarl]

Feel free to read up on what Ibn Katheer, al-Tabari, al-Tabarani and others have narrated on this issue. The point is not whether they are authentic or not. But the fact that some people make fun of things just because it happens to be in Rafidi books and sounds strange to them, and at times it may be that he has made fun of something that was partially accepted, or accepted by some authorities from Ahl al-Sunnah. Ridiculing it then becomes disrespectful towards those authorities. It is one thing to be interested in conducting research, another to overstep ones boundaries in ridiculing hadiths when one is not trained in the Ulum of Hadith. The same goes for issues of Fiqh etc.

wassalam

I agree there.

[QQQQQ-Trek]

Why do we discuss such unimportant issues that have absolutely no benefit? By posting the initial article, it just goes to show this point. The shia are kaafirs and to discuss their books, unless refuting them to prove their kufr, is a waste of time.

[zatronanec]

Why do we discuss such unimportant issues that have absolutely no benefit?

It is a type of hilly billy, backward, ignorant entertainment. Let's make fun of things we have never heard before because if we haven't heard of it, it must be because it is nonsense. There are a lot of implications in that, we should rather heed the advice of Rasulullah salallahu alaihi wa salim and not speak from ignorance. Man samata naja.

[Eromaveabeara]

السلام عليكم

إن الأرض على صخرة والصخرة على قرن ثور فإذا حرك الثور قرنه تحركت الصخرة فتحركت الأرض وهي الزلزلة "Earth is on a rock, the rock is on the horn of a bull, if he moved his horn the rock moves and so does that earth, this is the quake."

Ibn al-Qayyim said "Fabricated" in al-Manar al-Muneef pg.67. He also said:

العجب من مسود كتبه بهذه الهذيانات "It is strange how some can fill their books with such hallucinations."

al-Qawuqji said "Fabricated" in al-LuLu al-Marsu' pg.52.

In al-Bidayah wal-Nihayah 1/15, Ibn Katheer said while commenting on this narration:

هذا الإسناد يذكر به السدي أشياء كثيرة فيها غرابة ، وكأن كثيرا منها متلقى من الإسرائيليات "Al-Sudi mentions with this Isnad many strange things, it appears that many of these are taken from Israeliyat."

As for the main origin of this story, it is recorded in Ma'alim al-Tanzeel 8/186, Tafseer al-Qurtubi 29/442 and abu Na'eem ibn Hilyat al-Awliyaa 6/8:

قال كعب الأحبار : إن إبليس تغلغل إلى الحوت الذي على ظهره الأرض فوسوس إليه ، فقال له : أتدري ما على ظهرك يا لوِيثا – اسم الحوت - من الأمم والدواب والشجر والجبال لو نفضتهم ألقيتهم عن ظهرك ، فهمّ لوِيثا أن يفعل ذلك فبعث الله دابة فدخلت منخره فوصلت إلى دماغه ، فعج الحوت إلى الله منها ، فأذن لها الله فخرجت .
قال كعب : فوالذي نفسي بيده إنه لينظر إليها وتنظر إليه إن همَّ بشيء من ذلك عادت كما كانت " Ka'b al-Ahbar said: "Ibees integrated himself into the whale which holds the earth on its back and made Waswasah to it, he said: "Do you know what is on your back O Luitha (I think he meant Leviathan) from nations and creatures and trees and mountains? if you shake you will throw them off your back." So Luitha began to shake but Allah sent a beast that entered his scales and reached his brains, so the whale asked Allah for forgiveness and so Allah permitted it to exist him."
Ka'b said: "By he who holds my life in his hand, it is looking at him and he is looking at her and if he ever tries to do it again it shall go back inside him."

And who is this "Ka'b al-Ahbar" you may ask? well he was a very respectable man in society, his full name is Abū Iṣḥaq Ka‘b ibn Mati‘ al-Humyari al-Aḥbār, he was a prominent Jewish Rabbi from Yemen who later traveled to Syria, He is counted among the Tabi‘in and narrated many Israeliyat.

So now you know where this came from, as for the Shia who knows, maybe Ja'far (rah) narrated it and maybe they falsely attributed it to him, we can't know because they don't have a science of Hadith.

[Eujacwta]

Brothers, it would be better if you are careful and not make too much fun of things as you seem to be unaware of both the whale and the bull being mentioned in a similar context in the books of Imams of Ahl al-Sunnah, such as Ibn Katheer and al-Tabari. Among these statements are hadiths attributed to the Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi wa sallam.

wassalam

Assalamu Alaikum

In fact, scholars have classed this (the narration of the earth being on a whale) as from Israeliyaat sources (sources from Judeo-Christian traditions) which have NOT been confirmed or proven as authentic at all. (Ibn Kathir - Al Bidaaya wal Nihaayaa¸ Volume 1 - Pg 15). Moreover:

"Please refer to the following sources and see what the scholars have said regarding the weakness and fabrication of these narrations:

Sheikh Albani, Silseelatil Al Ahaadeeth Al Da'eefa, Hadith no. 1253 & 6309
Al Dhahabi, Siyar A`laam-in-Nubulaa', Volume 4, page 61 & Volume 10, page 669
Ibn Rajab, Rasaail Ibn Rajab, Volume 3, page 138
Ibn 'Idi, Tahzheeb Al Tahzheeb, Volume 9, page 506
Ibn Hajar, Lisaan Al Meezaan, Volume 7, Hadith no. 572
Ibn Al Qaysaraani, Zhakeeratul Hufaaz, Volume 2, Hadith no. 1024

Fourthly, notice the strange difference between the narrations, some say that the Nun is a whale while the others are saying the Nun is an ink well. How can we rely on such narrations?"



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