[w4HPpbSW]

Dante Alighieri, a conservative, devout Christian poet, is remembered for his poem "The Divine Comedy", which depicts the Prophet of Islam, our liege-lord Muhammad and his cousin 'Ali in 8th circle of hell. Since they allegedly caused schism in life, Dante has eternally punished them in a gruesome manner by having their wounds sealed and then reopened by a devil. Needless to say, such blasphemy is passible by death according to the four Sunni schools of law. How troubling then that people considered by many as great scholars and intellectuals of Islam are on record praising Dante's filthy poetry.

Hamza Yusuf, for instance, feels the need to "defend" Dante and even makes light of Dante’s blasphemy commenting that he would like to make a theme park based on the ‘Inferno’: http://adoptingorthodoxy.wordpress.c...nte-alighieri/

Similarly, Hossein Nasr, a perennialist Shiite praised by Hamza Yusuf, quotes Dante often in his works and states:

"The Western poet who really attracted me most of all, and whom I read extensively in college, was Dante...To this day, this poem remains to me the most supreme poetical work of Western civilization" (In Search of the Sacred: A Conversation With Seyyed Hossein Nasr on His Life and thought) Now recently Mahmoud Shelton of eShaykh.com, a Haqqani website which is supervised by Hisham Kabbani, cited Dante approvingly, even suggesting that "The Divine Commedy" is an esoteric and spiritual masterpiece:

http://eshaykh.com/sufism/maulana-rumi-and-whirling/

A great work of literature belonging to Christendom is The Divine Comedy, yet it would not be improper to recognize Dante’s poem as a “translation” to the Christian West of mysteries belonging to the Night Journey and Ascension of Islam, as Palacios has shown with reference primarily to the Kitab al-Mi`raj. This is not, however, only a matter of literary transmission. For example, following the “mi`raj” of the prayer, the Muslim is enjoined to recite the formulas, “Glory to Allah,” “All praise to Allah,” and “Allah is Greatest,” each 33 times; for his part, Dante groups his poem into 3 books, each with 33 chapters. What is more, these same formulas have another special context: they are to accompany descending and ascending movement, and so pertain remarkably to Dante’s journey. Be that as it may, Dante’s final attainment in his work is expressed in English in these words:

But already my desire and my will
were being turned like a wheel, all at one speed,
by the Love that moves the sun and the other stars. Guard your iman brethren and be wary of those who address you with sweet, eloquent speech but whose hearts lack ghayra for the liege-lord of creation, sayyidina Muhammad ...

[shiciapsisy]

Dante Alighieri, a conservative, devout Christian poet, is remembered for his poem "The Divine Comedy", which depicts the Prophet of Islam, our liege-lord Muhammad and his cousin 'Ali in 8th circle of hell. In canto XXVIII, he says:



Since they allegedly caused schism in life, Dante has eternally punished them in a gruesome manner by having their wounds sealed and then reopened by a devil. Needless to say, such blasphemy is passible by death according to the four Sunni schools of law. How troubling then that people considered by many as great scholars and intellectuals of Islam are on record praising Dante's filthy poetry.

Hamza Yusuf, for instance, feels the need to "defend" Dante and even makes light of Dante’s blasphemy commenting that he would like to make a theme park based on the ‘Inferno’: http://adoptingorthodoxy.wordpress.c...nte-alighieri/

Similarly, Hossein Nasr, a perennialist Shiite praised by Hamza Yusuf, quotes Dante often in his works and states:



Now recently Mahmoud Shelton of eShaykh.com, a Haqqani website which is supervised by Hisham Kabbani, cited Dante approvingly, even suggesting that "The Divine Commedy" is an esoteric and spiritual masterpiece:



Guard your iman brethren and be wary of those who address you with sweet, eloquent speech but whose hearts lack ghayra for the liege-lord of creation, sayyidina Muhammad ...

Dante was indeed an obscene Islamophobe - Muslims with any fitra should shun him for this alone.

Muslims also need to remember not to repeat his filth even whilst attacking those who defend it.

Even repeating these things that Dante said is a very serious thing that should be avoided.


Maybe Hamza Yusuf, Mahmoud Shelton and Sayyed Hossein Nasr had read abridged versions and were unaware of the obscene offending verses?

Maybe there are some other factors that make the situation less simple with them, some other type of extenuating circumstances that we do not know?


It is obvious that Muslims must hate Dante and hate his works as a reflection of their love for the honour of Islam and their love for the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saws), Imam Ali (raa) and Sultan Saladin Ayyubi (ra).

[w4HPpbSW]

You're right. I have edited my post and removed the quote.

[shiciapsisy]

MashaAllah

[Quiniacab]

Reason why I stick with 'Mullahs'

Make this a sticky.
Thank you Allah SWT for giving us Maulana Qasin Nanotwi and his jama't.

[verybigf]

I think it would be best if you or any other concerned party were to contact Sh. Hamza Yusuf and ask him about his views on Dante. All too often words can be misunderstood.

[HomePageOEMfreeSOFTWARE]

While I understand that one finds it extremely distasteful that he is quoted in what seems to be an approving way to many, I must say that anyone who has listened to or read Shaykh Hamza Yusuf quickly notices that it is simply a matter of his way of expressing himself. It is quite obvious to me that he does not "approve" of Dante and his blasphemous words. There is no doubt that Dante and his Divine Comedy had a great impact on European literature and poetry. While we reject any attack on our beloved Prophet wholeheartedly (and may salat and salam be upon him endlessly), we need to take the historical context into consideration. In the case of Shaykh Hamza, he knows his audience better than we do. To reach the white educated middle class, you may need to know your Dante, just as you will need to know your Shakespear. If not for anything else, at least to sway the hearts.

Wa Allahu a´lam.

[StarsWorld]

To reach the white educated middle class, you may need to know your Dante, just as you will need to know your Shakespear. If not for anything else, at least to sway the hearts.

Wa Allahu a´lam.

Walikumassalam,

If what you are saying holds any water then the sahaba must have referred to Ka'ab bin Ashraf maloon for swaying the hearts of jews. But everyone knows that wasn't the case.

As Molana Saad sb always says it is not the person who gives the dawah which matters but the nahaj ( method ) which is important.

[Rounteetepehryn]

While I understand that one finds it extremely distasteful that he is quoted in what seems to be an approving way to many, I must say that anyone who has listened to or read Shaykh Hamza Yusuf quickly notices that it is simply a matter of his way of expressing himself. It is quite obvious to me that he does not "approve" of Dante and his blasphemous words. There is no doubt that Dante and his Divine Comedy had a great impact on European literature and poetry. While we reject any attack on our beloved Prophet wholeheartedly (and may salat and salam be upon him endlessly), we need to take the historical context into consideration. In the case of Shaykh Hamza, he knows his audience better than we do. To reach the white educated middle class, you may need to know your Dante, just as you will need to know your Shakespear. If not for anything else, at least to sway the hearts.

Wa Allahu a´lam.

I disagree. I live in NY and I meet all social types. Dante, Shakespeare...the only people I can think of whose interest would be piqued by these writers are pretentious literature majors at NYU. You know the type...people who think they're very educated, deep thinkers...when they're really just a bunch of college kids trying to act the part. So if that's your target audience, I guess you might need Dante. Otherwise, for Christian philosophy, you could just as well talk about Augustine and Aquinas...but those guys are out of the purview of even most pretentious lit majors.

[mashabox]

..the only people I can think of whose interest would be piqued by these writers are pretentious literature majors at NYU. You know the type...people who think they're very educated, deep thinkers...when they're really just a bunch of college kids trying to act the part.

That is one irritating balloon. Many moving around this place too.

[tropicana]

Dante was indeed an obscene Islamophobe - Muslims with any fitra should shun him for this alone.

Muslims also need to remember not to repeat his filth even whilst attacking those who defend it.

Even repeating these things that Dante said is a very serious thing that should be avoided.


Maybe Hamza Yusuf, Mahmoud Shelton and Sayyed Hossein Nasr had read abridged versions and were unaware of the obscene offending verses?

Maybe there are some other factors that make the situation less simple with them, some other type of extenuating circumstances that we do not know?


It is obvious that Muslims must hate Dante and hate his works as a reflection of their love for the honour of Islam and their love for the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saws), Imam Ali (raa) and Sultan Saladin Ayyubi (ra).

I suggest we don't use this word 'islamophobe', it puts hatred of islam into the same category of homophobia, transphobia all these other made up marxist 'phobias'.

A better term would be 'enemy of islam'.

[tropicana]

To reach the white educated middle class, you may need to know your Dante, just as you will need to know your Shakespear. If not for anything else, at least to sway the hearts.

Wa Allahu a´lam.

So why not milton? Dante didn't even write in english. Paradise lost is far superior to the divine comedy, its on a similar topic, and milton was even suspected of being a secret muslim.

Point being, there are tonnes of works of european literature that can be used. Why dante? There's no excuse.

[G778G9P0]

Dante was a christian, so was luther these are both great individuals in many respects

they both believed that muslims were going to hell and wrote that in their works.

OBVIOUSLY, they were going to think that, they were christians, by definition they had to believe that anyone who rejected the "saviour" is going to hell.

be that as it may, one can find valuable lessons in their work that appeal to western audiences and certain themes that resonate with islamic teachings and values that can help westerners appreciate many of the evils of the post modern world. Hamza yusuf is highlighting those themes, in an effort to make these kuffar realize the errors of their ways. and since most muslims are following the kuffar in to their "lizard holes" the lecture would also be beneficial for them.

Hamza Yusuf qoutes extensively from Dante with a minor focus on the issues of pornography, lust etc. and then he spent the majority of the discussion describing the evils of interest to a non-muslim, christian/secular audience using a figure that they already revere and respect i.e. dante.

he's getting people to realize the errors of ineterest using sources that they revere, because clearly "qala rasulullah" (saws) doesn't work with these kuffar.

listen to the actual lecture nothing he says is objectionable. except for mentioning that Dante places Ibn Rushd and Salahuddin (i.e. just/good pagans according to Dante) in one of the lesser regions of hell, where Dante also places the prophets of the Isrealites (if i can recall from the lecture). obviously hamza yusuf is not endorsing that view listen to the lecture it's crystal clear.

it was definitely a good lecture. people should hear it before commenting further. again it was a really was a beneficial lecture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2ZWl...feature=relmfu

[G778G9P0]

I study from einstein to learn his science not his faith.

showing people dante's analysis of the major sins, is a good idea, if the audience is receptive to him.

[G778G9P0]

The reason

hamza yusuf wants to make a theme park based on the inferno, is to make the public visualize and realize just how bad their actions are using the symbolism Dante uses.

for anyone who's studied english in the west, shakespeare, english poetry...the importance of symbolism is very important.

at the beginning of the speech Hamza yusuf mentions briefly that Dante is problematic for muslims but "he will get to that later"....i assume he runs out of time and doesn't get to actually explain that particular point.

regardless calling hamza yusuf a "shameless admirer" of Dante's blasphemous "the divine comedy" is problematic. Hamza Yusuf is impressed with Dante's analysis and description of some of the major sins that are currently very common in our society. nothing he said implied that he was impressed with the blasphemous statements that Dante made.

i think what people must remember is that when muslim shcolars appeal to western audiences by quoting aquinas or Dante, or any other non-muslim for that matter, they are not telling people to accept their aqeedah (nor was hamza yusuf talking about dante's aqeedah), but rather they do it to highlight Islamic messages which other people (outside of islam) also accepted and promoted.

[muytreda]

But why can't he simply use the work in whatever good way you suppose it would do to the audience, while making it absolutely clear that he disagrees with what was Said about Prophet Muhammad () and Ali, metaphorical or not. Wouldn't the audience still take in what he said regarding the rest of the book, and respect him for fully standing up to a principle that he should have layed down concerning his Prophet ()?

It seems as if he put himself into an awkward situation (which in itself is extremely dangerous) for absolutely no good reason.

I don't think it was that he accepts what Dante said, or that he agrees with the belief, rather it's that he attempted to DEFEND IT, rather than just disagree with it completely.

[G778G9P0]

No refrence is made to Rasulullah or Ali by Hamza Yusuf when he is quoting from dante. he merely says dante is problematic for muslim or something to that effect "but we'll get to that later".

and i'm sorry when you say "DEFEND" what are you saying. what are you implying that hamza yusuf was defending specifically.

Hamza Yusuf, wasn't spending his time defending Dante (or i didn't really notice it). the speech was not a defense of Dante.

the speech was him quoting from Dante to illustrate certain points. what he i heard him focussing on was the sins mentioned, and the symbolism Dante uses to really show the reality of the effect of the sins mentioned.

[muytreda]

No refrence is made to Rasulullah or Ali by Hamza Yusuf when he is quoting from dante. he merely says dante is problematic for muslim or something to that effect "but we'll get to that later".

I'm not sure if we are on the same page or not, but he himself was talking about Dante when he said he wanted to defend him in relation to how Dante placed Prophet Muhammad only in the part of hell that was reserved for those who caused division and not for those false Prophets, which means that Dante was showing him some respect. He later goes on to say that Dante didn't actually mean Muhammad by the person, but rather it was just a name used to promote an idea.

and i'm sorry when you say "DEFEND" what are you saying. what are you implying that hamza yusuf was defending specifically. He used the word defend in relation to Dantes speech about where he placed Prophet Muhammad did he not? Since he did, please tell me what you have understood from his word usage in the context that he used, perhaps I am mistaken.

Watch the second video down, from 9 minutes on. http://adoptingorthodoxy.wordpress.c...nte-alighieri/

Hamza Yusuf Said,

"[Speaking of the eighth circle] and then soars of scandals and schism. This is where unfortunately

for Muslims he has the Prophet Muhammad with Ali…now I want to… and I… you know… It is

difficult for me but I would like to defend a little bit Dante. Dante… Dante put him in… in… among
Hamza Yusuf, wasn't spending his time defending Dante (or i didn't really notice it). the speech was not a defense of Dante. I don't think it was either, but one sentence is enough when it comes to such a statement in regards to Rasool Allah .

[Heacechig]

I disagree. I live in NY and I meet all social types. Dante, Shakespeare...the only people I can think of whose interest would be piqued by these writers are pretentious literature majors at NYU. You know the type...people who think they're very educated, deep thinkers...when they're really just a bunch of college kids trying to act the part. So if that's your target audience, I guess you might need Dante. Otherwise, for Christian philosophy, you could just as well talk about Augustine and Aquinas...but those guys are out of the purview of even most pretentious lit majors.

Shakespeare and Dante are both still a part of pop culture in the West. They still release popular films, shows, etc based on Shakespeare (the most recent that comes to mind was that one about the Roman general who turns on his own city) and there was even a video game about Dante's Inferno a year or two ago.

[Heacechig]

He used the word defend in relation to Dantes speech about where he placed Prophet Muhammad did he not?

No. He didn't. He used the word defend to mean defending the use of Dante's work in such contexts (he used it when approaching Western audiences about the subject of morality).