[ancexttew]

"Hate" is not something that we can say is evil. Do we not hate shaytaan? Do we not curse him as often as we can? So why should we not hate those that are his allies? Hate is a natural emotion that everyone has, even the anbiya عليهم السلام. Even more so, Allah has said that He hates certain a'maal and certain people. "Hating" for the sake of Allah is a commendable thing, just how "loving" for the sake of Allah is a commendable thing. We hate those who are enemies of those who are beloved to Allah - this is the basis of the Shi'a-Sunni divide at an emotional level.

[yharmon6614]

"Hate" is not something that we can say is evil. Do we not hate shaytaan? Do we not curse him as often as we can? So why should we not hate those that are his allies? Hate is a natural emotion that everyone has, even the anbiya عليهم السلام. Even more so, Allah has said that He hates certain a'maal and certain people. "Hating" for the sake of Allah is a commendable thing, just how "loving" for the sake of Allah is a commendable thing. We hate those who are enemies of those who are beloved to Allah - this is the basis of the Shi'a-Sunni divide at an emotional level.

We hate their aqeeda and a'maal but work to rectify them. As I understand it, we do not hate for the sake of just hating people, they are humans just like us and we hate their beliefs what they are doing - not the people per se. Otherwise, it becomes personal and that is not constructive and can drag emotions into it. This has the opposite effect and causes a barrier of emotion and hostility that keeps them at odds and away from engaging, from the opportunity to reconsider. Clearly, its difficult to detach emotions from it but, in some cases, it needs to be done (atleast prima facie - no one can see what is in your heart) for the greater good which is to bring people back to the correct Aqeeda, A'maal etc. No person is infallible and some are in darkness for years until, somehow and someway, Allah ta'ala affects them with Hidayah.

Allahu A'lam

[ancexttew]

We hate their aqeeda and a'maal but work to rectify them. As I understand it, we do not hate for the sake of just hating people, they are humans just like us and we hate their beliefs what they are doing - not the people per se. Otherwise, it becomes personal and that is not constructive and can drag emotions into it. This has the opposite effect and causes a barrier of emotion and hostility that keeps them at odds and away from engaging, from the opportunity to reconsider. Clearly, its difficult to detach emotions from it but, in some cases, it needs to be done (atleast prima facie - no one can see what is in your heart) for the greater good which is to bring people back to the correct Aqeeda, A'maal etc. No person is infallible and some are in darkness for years until, somehow and someway, Allah ta'ala affects them with Hidayah.

Allahu A'lam

Hate for the sake of hating people isn't really possible without a mental condition. We hate for the sake of Allah . We hate those who hate those who He loves. If a Shi'a repents from his hatred of the sahaba and the ummahat-ul-mu'mineen رضي الله عنهن and rejects the belief in a divine imamah, then he is my brother.

[6Rexw51X]

Hate for the sake of hating people isn't really possible without a mental condition. We hate for the sake of Allah . We hate those who hate those who He loves. If a Shi'a repents from his hatred of the sahaba and the ummahat-ul-mu'mineen رضي الله عنهن and rejects the belief in a divine imamah, then he is my brother.

In my book, he is still my brother...

[ancexttew]

In my book, he is still my brother...

Would you call a non-Muslim your brother? Love for sahaba is proven from the Qur'an and sunnah and is part of our aqeeda. Love for ummahat-ul-mu'mineen رضي الله عنهن is proven from Qur'an and sunnah and is part of our aqeeda. Shi'a curse and insult both and even say that 'Aisha and Hafsa رضي الله عنهنا were responsible for killing Rasoolullah .

If you still have love for people who do such things, I can't say anything to you. May Allah guide us.

[yharmon6614]

Hate for the sake of hating people isn't really possible without a mental condition. We hate for the sake of Allah . We hate those who hate those who He loves. If a Shi'a repents from his hatred of the sahaba and the ummahat-ul-mu'mineen رضي الله عنهن and rejects the belief in a divine imamah, then he is my brother.

I understand we hate their aqeeda and a'maal as opposed to simply hating people. I disagree with the theory you have to be in a mental condition to hate what they stand for and what they do. One can show his love to Allah Ta'ala without needing to hate others to validate or justify it. You do not need to hate people to hate their aqeeda and actions. Nabi (SAW) never hated his uncle Abu Talib even though he was a Mushrik till the day he died. He hated his Aqeeda and A'mal - but not the man himself. He always worked to rectify him, even at his deathbed. That is a crucial lesson for all of us. Rather, we should pray for them, keep up our duty of opposing and rectifying their beliefs/actions. Maybe this is pragmatic but I just don't see and have not seen anything to suggest we show hate towards a people for the sake of hatred alone. We hate them for a reason, which is their aqeeda and actions which is why is does not become a personalised/emotional issue (atleast on the face of it). Appericate you points brother.

Allahu A'lam

[ancexttew]

I understand we hate their aqeeda and a'maal as opposed to simply hating people. I disagree with the theory you have to be in a mental condition to hate what they stand for and what they do. You do not need to hate people to hate their aqeeda and actions. Rather, we pray for them, keep up our duty of opposing and rectifying their beliefs/actions. Maybe this is pragmatic but I just don't see and have not seen anything to suggest we show hate towards a people for the sake of hatred alone. We hate them for a reason, which is their aqeeda and actions which is why is does not become a personalised/emotional issue (atleast on the face of it). Appericate you points brother.

Allahu A'lam

I did not say that. If someone hates someone because of his proclamations, that is understandable. I hate Yasser al-Habeeb (al-Khabees) for his words against the khulafa ar-raashidoon and 'Aisha . I don't hate him because he is "Yasser al-Habeeb". If he repents from his kufr and hatred, he is my brother. If he doesn't, may Allah destroy him and give him what he deserves. And what do you mean by showing "hate towards a people for the sake of hatred alone"? This is, as I mentioned earlier, impossible without having a mental ailment. Rabid and baseless hate is something that isn't inherent in humans, let alone Muslims. We hate because of what someone says or does. I'd even say that baseless hate can be considered a sin, because it takes the form of many anti-Islamic -isms, such as racism or sexism.

[yharmon6614]

I did not say that. If someone hates someone because of his proclamations, that is understandable. I hate Yasser al-Habeeb (al-Khabees) for his words against the khulafa ar-raashidoon and 'Aisha . I don't hate him because he is "Yasser al-Habeeb". If he repents from his kufr and hatred, he is my brother. If he doesn't, may Allah destroy him and give him what he deserves. And what do you mean by showing "hate towards a people for the sake of hatred alone"? This is, as I mentioned earlier, impossible without having a mental ailment. Rabid and baseless hate is something that isn't inherent in humans, let alone Muslims. We hate because of what someone says or does. I'd even say that baseless hate can be considered a sin, because it takes the form of many anti-Islamic -isms, such as racism or sexism.

Brother, sorry. I was confused at what your post meant in that sentence. Not really any different to what I am suggesting, that you hate their aqeeda and a'mal. I would not however go as far as saying they are no longer my brother without being sure of what they are saying and ascertaining from scholars that it is CLEAR Kufr (without any doubt). Even then, I would prefer to work to rectify than just hold out hatred or a grudge against them. Its more constructive and rewarding IA. Appreciate you clarification of the matter.

Allahu A'lam

[yharmon6614]

I hate a person who claims that once he is in control of Haramain Sharifain, he will remove the body of Mother of believers from her grave and give lashes to her.

And

And throw the bodies out of raudah mubarak of Syeduna Abu Bakr Radiallahu anhu and Syeduna Umar Radiallahu anhu.

I hate the regime which doesn't allow the sunni muslims to construct their own mosque and also bulldozes the houses where the sunni muslims are offering salah separately.

The long list continues...............

Let them repent from all these, we arms are open for them.

But still we allow them to stand and pray next to us in haramain sharifain.

"We" ???

The government/royal family of Saudi Arabia do. How they are allowed to desecrate graves is shocking. One would have thought the Saudi's took care of such places. It could also be they don't care and consider such places like tombs that are worshipped - hence an indifference by the Wahhabi's to any damage or destruction caused to these graves and other old sites.

May Allah protect us from this Fitna.

Allah A'lam

[yharmon6614]

Did the saudis ever removed bodies from the grave. When they have remove the tombs of ahle-bayath, they removed tombs from mothers of believers, khaleefa Syeduna Uthman RA and other sahabah. No discrimination here. By the way, ahle bayth belong to us and also to the saudi regime.

No they have not. My point was that they may not have dealt the importance to such sites as should have been done. Easier to figure out in hindsight. Maybe because the authorities are Wahhabis and didn't want to overplay the importance of any site - just treat it like any other grave or ancient site. The Saudies are the ones who let them in. Only they are answerable if these kind of things happen as a result of their actions.

Allahu A'lam

[ancexttew]

Brother, sorry. I was confused at what your post meant in that sentence. Not really any different to what I am suggesting, that you hate their aqeeda and a'mal. I would not however go as far as saying they are no longer my brother without being sure of what they are saying and ascertaining from scholars that it is CLEAR Kufr (without any doubt). Even then, I would prefer to work to rectify than just hold out hatred or a grudge against them. Its more constructive and rewarding IA. Appreciate you clarification of the matter.

Allahu A'lam

The beliefs of the Shi'a are clear kufr - there is no doubt about this. Any ulama that have dealt with the issue of the ithna-'Ashariyah Shi'a have come to the conclusion that beliefs of the ithna-'Ashariyah remove them from Islam. My brother will never call, let alone believe, that my mother a prostitute. My brother will never say, let alone believe, that my mother is in the hellfire. My brother will never say, let alone believe, that my mother's father is a heinous criminal. My brother will never say, let alone believe, that the beloved friends of my Prophet were kuffar, criminals, sodomites.

All these things have been said by the Shi'a and are found not just in their books, but in this age of information, video and audio evidence is available in record amount. The guy I mentioned earlier, Yasser al-Habeeb from Kuwait, is a filthy Shi'a who said that they don't have to practice their taqiyya anymore since they have sufficient power and should now reveal their true beliefs. In doing so, he has held conferences dishonouring my mother and your mother, he and his followers routinely insult those who were the most beloved of Allah and his Rasool . The majority of lay Shi'a don't know such things and thus I don't say anything bad about them nor do I hate them. But as soon as someone wags his tongue by attacking our mothers and those who were the close friends and brothers of Rasoolullah - then I hate him and will never stop hating him until he repents from his remarks.

If someone says ignorant things about me, I won't care. He can insult me all they want but I would not stop calling this person my brother if he was a Muslim. But, as soon as he insults our mothers and the sahaba , he has forfeited his Islam and is not my brother anymore.

Also, why are you bringing the Saudis into this? None of their actions can be used to say that they are Kaafir. They could even destroy and rebuild the Ka'aba and they would still not be considered kaafir. Also, they never desecrated the graves by destroying the tombs built upon them. Even if you don't agree with them, you should know that there have been many ulama who have said that graves should not have anything built upon them. So, these are matters of fiqh and matters upon which there is a difference of opinion. If a Wahhabi says that you can hold the Qur'an in a state of impurity and that he does so often, I would say he is wrong and tell others not to listen to him - but I won't call him a kaafir. But, if he curses our mothers, he has forfeited his religion. If a Zaydi says that 'Ali was the rightful first khalifa, I would say he is wrong and warn others not to listen to him - but I won't call him a kaafir. But, if he curses Abu Bakr and Umar رضي الله عنهما and calls them kaafir, then he has forfeited his religion. If a khaariji says that 'Ali was wrong, I would say he is wrong and warn others not to listen to him - but I won't call him a kaafir. But, if he curses 'Ali and calls him a kaafir, then he has forfeited his religion.

[ancexttew]

Assalamu alaykum

I have the video of urdu tabarrah majlis. (the speaker omits dirty filth in that) And in this video the audience slap and kick a six fix doll named Syeduna Umar RA. And still we have to love them.

The guy I've mentioned before - Yasser al-Habeeb - has his centre (temple) in the UK, where they hold such juloos and they send la'nah upon Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, 'Aisha, and Hafsa . Then they spend the rest of the time insulting and cursing them. They even hold death celebrations on the day of death of each of these noble sahaba and pray two raka't nafl shukrana!

There are many videos of him on Youtube.

[yharmon6614]

The beliefs of the Shi'a are clear kufr - there is no doubt about this. Any ulama that have dealt with the issue of the ithna-'Ashariyah Shi'a have come to the conclusion that beliefs of the ithna-'Ashariyah remove them from Islam. My brother will never call, let alone believe, that my mother a prostitute. My brother will never say, let alone believe, that my mother is in the hellfire. My brother will never say, let alone believe, that my mother's father is a heinous criminal. My brother will never say, let alone believe, that the beloved friends of my Prophet were kuffar, criminals, sodomites.

All these things have been said by the Shi'a and are found not just in their books, but in this age of information, video and audio evidence is available in record amount. The guy I mentioned earlier, Yasser al-Habeeb from Kuwait, is a filthy Shi'a who said that they don't have to practice their taqiyya anymore since they have sufficient power and should now reveal their true beliefs. In doing so, he has held conferences dishonouring my mother and your mother, he and his followers routinely insult those who were the most beloved of Allah and his Rasool . The majority of lay Shi'a don't know such things and thus I don't say anything bad about them nor do I hate them. But as soon as someone wags his tongue by attacking our mothers and those who were the close friends and brothers of Rasoolullah - then I hate him and will never stop hating him until he repents from his remarks.

If someone says ignorant things about me, I won't care. He can insult me all they want but I would not stop calling this person my brother if he was a Muslim. But, as soon as he insults our mothers and the sahaba , he has forfeited his Islam and is not my brother anymore.

Also, why are you bringing the Saudis into this? None of their actions can be used to say that they are Kaafir. They could even destroy and rebuild the Ka'aba and they would still not be considered kaafir. Also, they never desecrated the graves by destroying the tombs built upon them. Even if you don't agree with them, you should know that there have been many ulama who have said that graves should not have anything built upon them. So, these are matters of fiqh and matters upon which there is a difference of opinion. If a Wahhabi says that you can hold the Qur'an in a state of impurity and that he does so often, I would say he is wrong and tell others not to listen to him - but I won't call him a kaafir. But, if he curses our mothers, he has forfeited his religion. If a Zaydi says that 'Ali was the rightful first khalifa, I would say he is wrong and warn others not to listen to him - but I won't call him a kaafir. But, if he curses Abu Bakr and Umar رضي الله عنهما and calls them kaafir, then he has forfeited his religion. If a khaariji says that 'Ali was wrong, I would say he is wrong and warn others not to listen to him - but I won't call him a kaafir. But, if he curses 'Ali and calls him a kaafir, then he has forfeited his religion.

Jazakallah for your post brother. Of course, anyone who makes claim that the prophet (saw) should be someone else is not a Muslim. My point in relation to the brother who posted above was that it is not 'we' (as he suggested in his post) who allow the Shia open door into Saudi/haramain - it is the authorities there that have made the decision to let them in. Maybe they could look into that. Of course, certain areas could be put off-limits to save from degradation - surprising it took them so long to employ stringent measures.

I agree with you, the majority of Shia are not constantly ranting and cursing. The leaders are the ones who have much to answer for. In the UK, we have many who identify as Shia, they are approachable, open-minded, intelligent and hardly have anything to do with religion - its just something they identify with culturally but they are not so deeply intertwined with it. My approach would be, as stated above, pragmatic. You hate their belief and their actions. Try not to personalise it and do what you can to change the situation. Try to be constructive and get their confidence. As we say in England, get their 'ear'. Otherwise they shall remain in this for a very long time and every chance we let it go, is an opportunity waisted.

Allahu A'lam

[yharmon6614]

The guy I've mentioned before - Yasser al-Habeeb - has his centre (temple) in the UK, where they hold such juloos and they send la'nah upon Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, 'Aisha, and Hafsa . Then they spend the rest of the time insulting and cursing them. They even hold death celebrations on the day of death of each of these noble sahaba and pray two raka't nafl shukrana!

There are many videos of him on Youtube.

This is terrible. Don't want to look at the videos. Inshallah, people will see the light and move away from this kind of incitement.

Allahu A'lam

[southernplayer99]

many of shia nowadays have stopped abusing sahabas - only jaahil and extreme shias do cursing i have many friends and in my village there are many shias who dont curse sahabas - but my question is since you all dont hate yazeed and dont consider him kaafir , ( who was responsible for killing of Imam Hussain (R) and attacking Madina and kiling countless sahabas ) then what will you get in spreading hatred against shias and calling them kaafir - and in mosques preach hatred about them so that killing between shia and sunni arise ?

i am in no way a supporter of shias , but its about time we resolve our differences and finish this hatred - both sides arent ready for unity

[Rounteetepehryn]

many of shia nowadays have stopped abusing sahabas - only jaahil and extreme shias do cursing i have many friends and in my village there are many shias who dont curse sahabas - but my question is since you all dont hate yazeed and dont consider him kaafir , ( who was responsible for killing of Imam Hussain (R) and attacking Madina and kiling countless sahabas ) then what will you get in spreading hatred against shias and calling them kaafir - and in mosques preach hatred about them so that killing between shia and sunni arise ?

i am in no way a supporter of shias , but its about time we resolve our differences and finish this hatred - both sides arent ready for unity

Our problem with shiites isn't only that they, as a group, have historically been traitorous and murderous (what seems to be your basis for hating Yazeed). The more important issues are doctrinal. From believing the imams to be greater than the anbiya, to believing the quran is distorted, to attributing things to the quran which aren't there (like the belief in imamah)...this is what makes them kafir. So you see, we can never "resolve" our differences with them. The gulf is virtually unbridgeable.

Besides, I have never seen any sunni masajid where they regularly preach hatred of the shiites. And if they are mentioned, it's not to preach hatred, but to inform the people about them and their beliefs. The hatred is not for the person, but his kufr and his cursing the sahaba, as well as any injury he may cause the Muslims.

That said, yes, most shiite laypeople (at least where I live) don't really know what their beliefs are, and don't make a point of cursing sahaba. They are just shiite in name, you could say. Most are secular and/or non-practicing.

[southernplayer99]

Our problem with shiites isn't only that they, as a group, have historically been traitorous and murderous (what seems to be your basis for hating Yazeed). The more important issues are doctrinal. From believing the imams to be greater than the anbiya, to believing the quran is distorted, to attributing things to the quran which aren't there (like the belief in imamah)...this is what makes them kafir. So you see, we can never "resolve" our differences with them. The gulf is virtually unbridgeable.

Besides, I have never seen any sunni masajid where they regularly preach hatred of the shiites. And if they are mentioned, it's not to preach hatred, but to inform the people about them and their beliefs. The hatred is not for the person, but his kufr and his cursing the sahaba, as well as any injury he may cause the Muslims.

That said, yes, most shiite laypeople (at least where I live) don't really know what their beliefs are, and don't make a point of cursing sahaba. They are just shiite in name, you could say. Most are secular and/or non-practicing.

hmm since i am a layman i dont know much about shia beleifs but my point was only that its about time we all muslims despite our differences be united -- and about spreading hatred , yes some mosques do that and due to which killings and fightings between shia and sunni arise ,, leave shia sunni aside - in this 12 rabi awwal , the local imam was speaking so much against celebrating mawlid and against barelwis , that there was tension between the 2 groups in our area for few days --- now i ask you is this right ? what if clash between 2 groups occured ?

[Rounteetepehryn]

hmm since i am a laymen i dont know much about shia beleifs but my point was only that its about time we all muslims despite our differences be united -- and about spreading hatred , yes some mosques do that and due to which killings and fightings between shia and sunni arise ,, leave shia sunni aside - in this 12 rabi awwal , the local imam was speaking so much against celebrating mawlid and against barelwis , that there was tension between the 2 groups in our area for few days --- now i ask you is this right ? what if clash between 2 groups occured ?

Well brother I'm not sure where you live, but in NY we don't really have too much of this bashing other groups in the masjid, However, I don't think this kind of unity is possible with the shiites because of what I described in my previous post. Uniting with shiites would be tantamount to uniting with christians. Of course, shouldn't hate them and abuse them, but we should maintain separation and recognize the kufr of their doctrines.

[6Rexw51X]

Would you call a non-Muslim your brother? Love for sahaba is proven from the Qur'an and sunnah and is part of our aqeeda. Love for ummahat-ul-mu'mineen رضي الله عنهن is proven from Qur'an and sunnah and is part of our aqeeda. Shi'a curse and insult both and even say that 'Aisha and Hafsa رضي الله عنهنا were responsible for killing Rasoolullah .

If you still have love for people who do such things, I can't say anything to you. May Allah guide us.

I have never heard a Shia do such, so they are believers in my eyes... I will never critisize someone based on second hand information...

[6Rexw51X]

Untold Truth Beware of waswisu

when you spoke this time the truth remained, very much untold.

it seems every Sunni Muslim group is bad according to you

there is a difference between sensation and perception

you are harsher than any of those you criticize

as you have apparently looked at the people of all these groups

and through your arrogance counted the faults of all the Muslims you saw

all the time you were counting you were blind to your own great faults

change your ways because when you are harsh on others and Allah is harsh on you

May Allah guide you in the best of ways and save you from the path that you have embarked upon

As if you are so humble....

Every single human being is engineered to sin.... so we all sin... So by that definition we are all bad...