[anfuckinggs]

Salaamu Alaykum dear respected brothers and sisters

I have been realising in recent times the status of Tarik Ramadan increasing and being resorted to more than ever in terms of Islamic related issued, and was very curious about what it is about Mr Ramadan that has placed him where he is at the moment. Some even remark him as the "Greatest Islamic scholar of our Modern time". What sort of views does Ramadan support and where do we see him in terms of Ahli Sunnah.

Jazajkumullah

[PNCarl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY17d4ZhY8M

[brandiweb]

Below I have quoted the words of Mr. Ramadan on the hudud. They are taken from a debate with the apostate Ayaan Hirsi Ali in front of a group of European kaafir 'intellectuals.'

"...I am against death penalty, and I am against stoning.... If I say this from where I am, they will say: This is a Swiss westernised man, who just wants to please the West. Now I want to change mentality, so I have to deal with Muslims and say, come to the text. The text as they are saying is true. The quran is stating about corporal punishment and death penalty, about stoning men and women. But we have text. I am asking three questions to the scholars; 1) What do the texts say, 2) What are the conditions, 3) and in which context. Come and talk. And while you are talking we stop everything. This is what we call moratorium, in order for me to go towards abolition. But this is to only change mentality." then read this booklet from The Mujlisul Ulema of South Africa, written by the respected Maulana Ahmed Sadek Desai, and draw your own conclusions.

http://www.themajlis.net/Sections-article232-p1.html

[shiciapsisy]

Salaamu Alaykum dear respected brothers and sisters

I have been realising in recent times the status of Tarik Ramadan increasing and being resorted to more than ever in terms of Islamic related issued, and was very curious about what it is about Mr Ramadan that has placed him where he is at the moment. Some even remark him as the "Greatest Islamic scholar of our Modern time". What sort of views does Ramadan support and where do we see him in terms of Ahli Sunnah.

Jazajkumullah

He's basically a Modernist leaning political-salafi brother.

[anfuckinggs]

He's basically a Modernist leaning political-salafi brother.

Who makes you conclude to this statement akhi? evidence would be greatly appreciated

[brandiweb]

He's basically a Modernist leaning political-salafi brother.

Salafis detest him. You can't just label anyone you want to tar and feather (not that he doesn't deserve it) with the label 'Salafi.' How many 'Salafis' do giant conferences with Hamza Yusuf anyway?

[shiciapsisy]

Who makes you conclude to this statement akhi? evidence would be greatly appreciated

I am saying this based upon his own statements and associations.

He is obviously modernists leaning from his statements that he mikes like - toilet roll is superior to wiping with stones (which is a Sunnah)

Furthermore the tradition of Islam of his family is moderate political-Salafi.

[shiciapsisy]

Salafis detest him. You can't just label anyone you want to tar and feather (not that he doesn't deserve it) with the label 'Salafi.' How many 'Salafis' do giant conferences with Hamza Yusuf anyway?

Maybe you are confusing political-Salafis (which include movements from the Islamic movement that are similar in thought to the Ikhwan) with Wahhabi type Salafis.

[shiciapsisy]

you may be interested in this previous discussion on Sunniforum about Tariq Ramadan

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...28sunnipath%29

if you do your own research you will find that Tariq Ramadan is basically a Modernist leaning political-salafi brother.

[preptarra]

As a french I have a easy acces to the majority of his works and talks and also to a lot of his critics, so I would like to add some points here for a better comprehension inshâ-Allah.

First of all, to described dr Tariq Ramadan as a salafi is something which can lead to big misunderstanding ... even if lot of french media and journalist say, write and describe him as a "salafi". They labelleded him as a "salafi" caused they have failed to understand some subtle point in various of his talk due to their lack of knowledge of the different islamic movement and trend. Just below I will give an example of his sayings which they use to label him as a "salafi" :
He himself says on a french radio (this is a translation which I try to make as good as I can) : "There is a rationalist and reformist tendency and a salafi tendency in a way salafism means to try to stick to the root (the original french word used is "fondements"). I am of this tendency, which means there is a certain number of principles which are fundamental for me, and that I don't want to betray as a muslim."

So, the problem come from the understandings of sentences like that and someone can understand them only if he refers to other works of him. Caused, if you consider "salafi" as it is usually used on this forum, for sure, he's not this like. He has criticized them on numerous points -on his website there is a at least a lengthy article in french which I have not found in English- and some salafis did so to.

Basically, critics from the salafis on him deal with : his position on the hijab (banned in french public school) and the niqab (banned in french public area like streets), some of his works dealing with secularism and democracy, his singular view on categorizing a land/nation as dâr-al-kufr etc, his position on hudûd, his position on the salafis themselves and their litteral approach of the texts and finally since recently there is a letter adressed to him where some french salafis ask him to clarify his positions on al-wal'a wal bara'.


As the question of hudûd has been bring up, two of his shortest works which must be read for understanding his view are :
http://www.tariqramadan.com/An-Inter...l-for,264.html and this answer to Al-Azhar which has ask him to clarify his view on the hudûd : http://www.tariqramadan.com/Reponse-...de-la,309.html
Unfortunately I have not found his answer translated in English or Arabic, so just briefly he says in it :
1) He doesn't deny that there is authentic text on hudûd nor did he says that there are not from the fundamentals of the dîn.
2) He doesn't say that to apply hudûd are damaging to islam but for him the conditions to apply them are not actually present.
3) He further discuss about when Omar ibn al-Khattâb (ra) chose to suspend the applications of hudûd for the thief for a period and then ask to the comission of Al-Azhar some questions about the actual applications of the hudûd in actual muslim country.


Finally, just some observations which I have made.
He has reached a great popularity in France caused he is probably the unique french Muslim (who doesn't want to compromise on some basics of the dîn) who has an access to the media to defend Islam or the Muslim. He (and his brother Rani) has been attacked by many politicians and media and has refuted them most of times. There is a lot of things to say on the topic of Tariq Ramadan and the french media and politics...
Now I just want to say that our ulamas in Reunion Island usually take what they deem good from him (e.g : his critics on the hijab and niqab laws, french international politics, critics of the israeli state etc) and leave what is doubtful.

[eI7iqNot]

As the question of hudûd has been bring up, two of his shortest works which must be read for understanding his view are :
http://www.tariqramadan.com/An-Inter...l-for,264.html and this answer to Al-Azhar which has ask him to clarify his view on the hudûd : http://www.tariqramadan.com/Reponse-...de-la,309.html
Unfortunately I have not found his answer translated in English or Arabic, so just briefly he says in it :
1) He doesn't deny that there is authentic text on hudûd nor did he says that there are not from the fundamentals of the dîn.
2) He doesn't say that to apply hudûd are damaging to islam but for him the conditions to apply them are not actually present.
3) He further discuss about when Omar ibn al-Khattâb (ra) chose to suspend the applications of hudûd for the thief for a period and then ask to the comission of Al-Azhar some questions about the actual applications of the hudûd in actual muslim country.

These are the lies of this kafir munafiq.

He exposed himself in this debate with the Somali apostate, Ayaan Hirsi Ali:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5d...i-ali-d_webcam

See from min. 3:10 onwards.

Brother Jadeed already posted a transcrition of his kufric statements in the third post of this thread.

May Allah destroy modernists and munafiqin, amin.

[shiciapsisy]

As a french I have a easy acces to the majority of his works and talks and also to a lot of his critics, so I would like to add some points here for a better comprehension inshâ-Allah.

First of all, to described dr Tariq Ramadan as a salafi is something which can lead to big misunderstanding ... even if lot of french media and journalist say, write and describe him as a "salafi". They labelleded him as a "salafi" caused they have failed to understand some subtle point in various of his talk due to their lack of knowledge of the different islamic movement and trend. Just below I will give an example of his sayings which they use to label him as a "salafi" :
He himself says on a french radio (this is a translation which I try to make as good as I can) : "There is a rationalist and reformist tendency and a salafi tendency in a way salafism means to try to stick to the root (the original french word used is "fondements"). I am of this tendency, which means there is a certain number of principles which are fundamental for me, and that I don't want to betray as a muslim."

So, the problem come from the understandings of sentences like that and someone can understand them only if he refers to other works of him. Caused, if you consider "salafi" as it is usually used on this forum, for sure, he's not this like. He has criticized them on numerous points -on his website there is a at least a lengthy article in french which I have not found in English- and some salafis did so to.

Basically, critics from the salafis on him deal with : his position on the hijab (banned in french public school) and the niqab (banned in french public area like streets), some of his works dealing with secularism and democracy, his singular view on categorizing a land/nation as dâr-al-kufr etc, his position on hudûd, his position on the salafis themselves and their litteral approach of the texts and finally since recently there is a letter adressed to him where some french salafis ask him to clarify his positions on al-wal'a wal bara'.


As the question of hudûd has been bring up, two of his shortest works which must be read for understanding his view are :
http://www.tariqramadan.com/An-Inter...l-for,264.html and this answer to Al-Azhar which has ask him to clarify his view on the hudûd : http://www.tariqramadan.com/Reponse-...de-la,309.html
Unfortunately I have not found his answer translated in English or Arabic, so just briefly he says in it :
1) He doesn't deny that there is authentic text on hudûd nor did he says that there are not from the fundamentals of the dîn.
2) He doesn't say that to apply hudûd are damaging to islam but for him the conditions to apply them are not actually present.
3) He further discuss about when Omar ibn al-Khattâb (ra) chose to suspend the applications of hudûd for the thief for a period and then ask to the comission of Al-Azhar some questions about the actual applications of the hudûd in actual muslim country.


Finally, just some observations which I have made.
He has reached a great popularity in France caused he is probably the unique french Muslim (who doesn't want to compromise on some basics of the dîn) who has an access to the media to defend Islam or the Muslim. He (and his brother Rani) has been attacked by many politicians and media and has refuted them most of times. There is a lot of things to say on the topic of Tariq Ramadan and the french media and politics...
Now I just want to say that our ulamas in Reunion Island usually take what they deem good from him (e.g : his critics on the hijab and niqab laws, french international politics, critics of the israeli state etc) and leave what is doubtful.

Assalamu alaikum wa Rahmatullah

Whilst what you are saying makes some sense in some areas

Imam Hassan al Banna (ra) the founder of the Muslim brotherhood (a moderate political Salafi) is Tariq Ramadan's mothers father,

Tariq Ramadan's own father too was an important member of the Muslim brotherhood,

and his family has a strong tradition of moderate political Salafism,

there is no doubt that this Islamic ideology is the base from where his current thought has grown.

however like his great uncle Gamal al-Banna he too inclines towards Modernism.


I never knew that anyone doubted these things.


If anyone who is a fan of Tariq Ramadan is uncomfortable with the use of the term political-salafi in this sense

then they should look in the English version of 'To be a European Muslim',

where I am pretty sure they will find he uses this exact term himself in this sense.



He does indeed say many sensible things,

but traditional Muslims are always likely to be uncomfortable when he says things that appear to challenge established Islamic ideas.