[tipoketpu]

I have read that imam Nasai has written an entire chapter in his Sanan for support of tark-e-rafa yadain after quoting two ahdadith and then proving that the one from Abdullah Ibn Masud [ra] is preferable.

Can any one tell me the exact page number or any online version so that i can get it confirmed

Jazakallah

[Hbkj89D2]

I have read that imam Nasai has written an entire chapter in his Sanan for support of tark-e-rafa yadain after quoting two ahdadith and then proving that the one from Abdullah Ibn Masud [ra] is preferable.

Can any one tell me the exact page number or any online version so that i can get it confirmed

Jazakallah

Asslamo Allaikum,

Imam Nasai (RA) narrates Ahadeeth about Raf Al-Yadain (RA):

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/D...Doc=3&Rec=1425

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/h...p?Doc=3&n=1426

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/D...Doc=3&Rec=1653

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/D...Doc=3&Rec=1655

Imam Nasai (RA) narrates Ahadeeth in the chapter with the heading that Raf Al-Yadain is abandoned (except for the first Takbeer):

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/D...Doc=3&Rec=1657

Detailed discussion about Raf-ul-Yadain in Salah (in English):

http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/detraf.htm

[tipoketpu]

Jazakallah, Thanks a lot for your response. It was really helpful.

Is it possible that i am able to see the translations in english as well.

Secondly one more request

I have read that Imam Malik in Madawwanat Kubra (Book 1, 71 ) has said that he does not know/recognize any one who does rafa yadain

In addition i have read that Imam Muhammad has said that Ashab-e-Badar were closest to prophet and they did not do Rafa-Yadain (Kitabal Hajj, Book 1, 95)

Can you identify an online version/pdf or scanned pages through which i can verify this as well.

Finally i have come to know that many Tabaeen like Imam Nazar Bin Kaseer Saadi, Imam Memoon Makki, Imam Waheeb Bin Khalid [ra] did not know/recognize any one during there era who did rafa- yadain. A refernce to Abu Dawood was given, however can any one tell about the exact narrations through which it has been concluded and any soft-copy of evidence.

Once again Thanks a lot for support

[BadbarmrapBef]

Asslamo Allaikum,

Imam Nasai (RA) narrates Ahadeeth about Raf Al-Yadain (RA):

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/D...Doc=3&Rec=1425

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/h...p?Doc=3&n=1426

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/D...Doc=3&Rec=1653

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/D...Doc=3&Rec=1655

Imam Nasai (RA) narrates Ahadeeth in the chapter with the heading that Raf Al-Yadain is abandoned (except for the first Takbeer):

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/D...Doc=3&Rec=1657

Detailed discussion about Raf-ul-Yadain in Salah (in English):

http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/detraf.htm

COLONEL - you come with all guns blazing !!! ... May ALLAH help you answer the Munkar nakeer as well as you do on our posts !!!

By the way can you help translate

Imam Nasai (RA) narrates Ahadeeth in the chapter with the heading that Raf Al-Yadain is abandoned (except for the first Takbeer):

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/D...Doc=3&Rec=1657

Into English along with the Sanad and the book page number ?

As I open the link I see a generic page rather than the specific hadees.

[medshop]

This might help.
Al Salamu 'Alaykum.
Al Shawkani said in Nayl al-Awtar:
It is established from the Hadith of ‘Umar according to al-Bayhaqi that he said after mentioning the Messenger of Allah would raise his hands upon the opening takbir and upon bowing and straightening. “And this remained his Salah until he met Allah (Exalted is He).” (Nayl al-Awtar, 2: 68)
And he said after transmitting the Hadith with the wording of al-Bukhari and Muslim without the addition of “and this remained his Salah until he met Allah (Exalted is He)”:
The Hadith was transmitted by al-Bayhaqi with the addition, “And this remained his Salah until he met Allah (Exalted is He).” Ibn al Madini said; “This Hadith according to me is a proof for all the creation. All who hear it must act upon it, because there is nothing (problematic) in its chain.” (Nayl al-Awtar, 2:67)
This gives the impression apparently that Ibn al Madini strengthened it with this addition which Bayhaqi narrated, and that it is established from Allah’s Messenger as such and there is nothing wrong with its chain. This is an error. Rather the speech of Ibn al Madini refers to the Hadith with the wording transmitted by the two Shaykhs and there is no doubt in the authenticity of its chain and its being free from any defect. Yet, we have criticism of it from the perspective of [its] comprehension due to the narrations from Ibn ‘Umar being contradictory on this [matter] as we discussed earlier.
As for the one with the addition that al Bayhaqi narrated, it is not sahih at all. Rather it appears tio be fabricated, since Zayla’i mentioned its chain and said:
Shaykh [Ibn Daqiq al Id] said in al Imam: This doubt, I,e, the claim of abrogation through the route of al-Hassan ibn ‘Abdullah ibn Hamdan al-Raqqi; ‘Ismah ibn Muhammad al-Ansari narrated to us; Musa ibn ‘Uqbah narrated to us from Nafe’ from Ibn ‘Umar that Allah’s Messenger would when beginning Salah raise his hands and when bowing and raising the head from bowing and he would not do this during prostration, and this remained his Salah until he met Allah( Exalted Is He). He narrated it from Abu ‘Abdullah al-Hafiz [ ie.] from Ja’far ibn Muhammad al Nasr, from ‘Abdur Rahman ibn Quraysh ibn Khuzaymah al-Harawi from ‘Abdullah ibn Ahmad al-Dajmashi from al-Hasan with it.” (Nasb al-Rayah)

Abdul Rahman ibn Quraysh was accused by al Sulaymani of fabricating Hadith as mentioned in LIsan al Mizan (3:425), and no one declared him trustworthy.
As for ‘Ismah ibn Muhammad al Ansari;
Abu Hatim said, “He is not strong,”
Yahya ibn Ma’in said, “An excessive liar fabricating hadith”
al-‘Uqayli said, “He narrates falsehoods from trustworthy narrators,”
al-Daraqutni and others said, “Abandoned,”
Ibn ‘Adi said, “’Ismah ibn Muhammad ibn Fudalah ibn ‘Ubayd al-Ansari the Medinan. None of his hadiths is recorded. (Lisan al-Mizan, 3:170)

Hence there is no proof therein and the claim of abrogation is not repelled thereby at all, so be wary of this for indeed many people were misled by this addition.
Taken from 'Ila al Sunan by Imam Zafar Ahmad al-'Uthmani Thanwi.
Wa'laykum Salam.

[forumsfavoriteall]

....

As I open the link I see a generic page rather than the specific hadees.

This is because the website since has been updated, anyway these are the locations for the hadith of Tark.

This one comes through Imam Waki':

الرخصة في ترك ذلك

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx...D=27&TOCID=652

And this hadith through Imam 'Abdullah Ibn Mubarak:

ترك ذلك

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx...D=27&TOCID=628

[BadbarmrapBef]

This is because the website since has been updated, anyway these are the locations for the hadith of Tark.

This one comes through Imam Waki':

الرخصة في ترك ذلك

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx...D=27&TOCID=652

And this hadith through Imam 'Abdullah Ibn Mubarak:

ترك ذلك

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx...D=27&TOCID=628

Can you also write the translation of these two hadees word to word in english and also the hadees book and number ?

[forumsfavoriteall]

Can you also write the translation of these two hadees word to word in english and also the hadees book and number ?

The translations and references are available online, for the first one of Sunan al-Nasa'i the reference is 1058:

Should I not demonstrate the prayer of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) for you? He performed the prayer, and did not raise his hands except at the initial takbir Second one it is 1026:

Should I not inform you of the Messenger of Allah’s (Allah bless him & give him peace) prayer?” He stood up and raised his hands at the outset and did not do so again

[BadbarmrapBef]

Oops ok... What I was looking for is a hadees that says that the prophet s.a.w initially did rafayadain and later abandoned it.

Do you know of any such hadees ?

[forumsfavoriteall]

No there isn't a authentic hadith that says in clear unambiguous words that Rasulullah did Raf' al-Yadayn and then abandoned it, nor is there an authentic hadith stating that Rasulullah didn't do it and later did it.

[brandiweb]

Oops ok... What I was looking for is a hadees that says that the prophet s.a.w initially did rafayadain and later abandoned it.

Do you know of any such hadees ?

If there was a sahih hadith to that effect and it was dated to a late part of the Madinan era, then this whole difference of opinion probably would never have existed.

The point of ikhtilaaf is that it's confusing, even to scholars. To us? Land of confusion. Don't worry about it.

[forumsfavoriteall]

If there was a sahih hadith to that effect and it was dated to a late part of the Madinan era, then this whole difference of opinion probably would never have existed.

The point of ikhtilaaf is that it's confusing, even to scholars. To us? Land of confusion. Don't worry about it.

Agreed

[BadbarmrapBef]

Ok, I guess then this is then only evidence that we have regarding what I was looking for

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?85062-Why-When-did-the-prophet-s.a.w-leave-rafayadain&highlight=

[forumsfavoriteall]

There is a Hasan Hadith from Abu Malik al-Ash'ari recorded in Musnad Ahmad who taught the womenfolk and children how to pray Salah, the Tabi'i 'Abd al-Rahman Bin Ghanm states that he (al-Ash'ari) raised his hands when he initiated Salah with Takbeer, although he mentions that he did Takbeer for Ruku and Sujood but he didn't mention that he raised his hands for it i.e. for Ruku or Sujood. Abu Malik clearly states that he was taught this prayer in Madinah, not only did he attribute the prayer to Rasulullah but also the time scale indicates that this was the latter part of Rasulullah's Prophethood .

The point being, the prayer was described in detail, even the raising of the hands in the beginning was mentioned, but the mentioning of raising the hands other than this wasn't mentioned despite their takbeers being mentioned, so if something wasn't recorded then it didn't take place.

مسند أحمد بن حنبل
http://www.islamweb.net/hadith/displ...307&pid=673192

رقم الحديث: 22307

2 (حديث مرفوع) حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو النَّضْرِ ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الْحَمِيدِ بْنُ بَهْرَامَ الْفَزَارِيُّ ، عَنْ شَهْرِ بْنِ حَوْشَبٍ ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ غَنْمٍ ، أَنَّ أَبَا مَالِكٍ الْأَشْعَرِيَّ جَمَعَ قَوْمَهُ ، فَقَالَ : يَا مَعْشَرَ الْأَشْعَرِيِّينَ , اجْتَمِعُوا وَاجْمَعُوا نِسَاءَكُمْ وَأَبْنَاءَكُمْ ، أُعَلِّمْكُمْ صَلَاةَ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ الَّتِي صَلَّى لَنَا بِالْمَدِينَةِ فَاجْتَمَعُوا وَجَمَعُوا نِسَاءَهُمْ وَأَبْنَاءَهُمْ ، فَتَوَضَّأَ وَأَرَاهُمْ كَيْفَ يَتَوَضَّأُ ، فَأَحْصَى الْوُضُوءَ إِلَى أَمَاكِنِهِ حَتَّى لَمَّا أَنْ فَاءَ الْفَيْءُ ، وَانْكَسَرَ الظِّلُّ ، قَامَ فَأَذَّنَ ، فَصَفَّ الرِّجَالَ فِي أَدْنَى الصَّفِّ ، وَصَفَّ الْوِلْدَانَ خَلْفَهُمْ ، وَصَفَّ النِّسَاءَ خَلْفَ الْوِلْدَانِ ، ثُمَّ أَقَامَ الصَّلَاةَ ، فَتَقَدَّمَ فَرَفَعَ يَدَيْهِ فَكَبَّرَ ، فَقَرَأَ بِفَاتِحَةِ الْكِتَابِ وَسُورَةٍ يُسِرُّهُمَا ، ثُمَّ كَبَّرَ فَرَكَعَ ، فَقَالَ : " سُبْحَانَ اللَّهِ وَبِحَمْدِهِ , ثَلَاثَ مِرَارٍ ، ثُمَّ قَالَ : سَمِعَ اللَّهُ لِمَنْ حَمِدَهُ " , وَاسْتَوَى قَائِمًا ، ثُمَّ كَبَّرَ وَخَرَّ سَاجِدًا ، ثُمَّ كَبَّرَ فَرَفَعَ رَأْسَهُ ، ثُمَّ كَبَّرَ فَسَجَدَ ، ثُمَّ كَبَّرَ فَانْتَهَضَ قَائِمًا ، فَكَانَ تَكْبِيرُهُ فِي أَوَّلِ رَكْعَةٍ سِتَّ تَكْبِيرَاتٍ ، وَكَبَّرَ حِينَ قَامَ إِلَى الرَّكْعَةِ الثَّانِيَةِ ، فَلَمَّا قَضَى صَلَاتَهُ أَقْبَلَ إِلَى قَوْمِهِ بِوَجْهِهِ ، فَقَالَ احْفَظُوا تَكْبِيرِي ، وَتَعَلَّمُوا رُكُوعِي وَسُجُودِي ، فَإِنَّهَا صَلَاةُ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ الَّتِي كَانَ يُصَلِّي لَنَا كَذَي السَّاعَةِ مِنَ النَّهَارِ " .

There is a translation of this hadith which i will put up later Insha-Allah.

Anyway the Hukm of this chain:

http://www.islamweb.net/hadith/dyntr...k_no=121&cid=4

الكتاب: مسند أحمد بن حنبل [الحكم: إسناده حسن رجاله ثقات عدا شهر بن حوشب الأشعري وهو صدوق كثير الإرسال والأوهام]



Wallahu A'lam

[forumsfavoriteall]

Although i will mention that this isn't definite proof of abrogation.

[brandiweb]

َحَّ دَثنَاِإسَْماِعيُلْبُنَأبِيأُوَْي ٍس,حَدَّ َثَناابُْنأَبِيالزِّ نَادِ, َعنُْموَسىبْنِ عُْقَبَة , َع ْن َعْبدِ اللَّ هِ بْنِ اْلَف ْض ِل , َع ْن عَْبدِ ال َّ ر ْحمَنِ بْنِ ُهرْمُزَ األَعْ َر ِج ,َعْنُعَبيِْدالَّ لِهْبنَِأبِيرَافٍِع,عَْنَعِلِّ يبِْنَأِبيطَالٍِبرَِضيَالَّ لُه عَنْ ُه : " أَ َّ ن َر ُسو َل الَّ ل ِه َصَّ لى اللَّ هُ عََليْهِ وَ َسَّ ل َم َكا َن ِإذَا قَامَ إَِلى الصَّ الةِ ا ْل مَ ْك ُت و بَ ِة كَ َّ ب رَ , َو رَ فَ َع َي َد ْي ِه َح ذْ َو َم نْ ِك َب ْي ِه , َو إِ ذَ ا َأ َر ا َد أَ ْن يَ رْ َك عَ ,
َويَصْنَعُ ُه إِذَا رَفَعَ رَأْ َسهُ مِ َن ال ُّ ر ُكوعِ , وَال يَ ْرفَعُ ِفي َشيْ ٍء مِ ْن َصالتِهِ , " َوُهَوَقاعٌِد, َوإَِذاَقامَمِنَالَّ سْجدََتيِْن َرفَعَيَدَْيِهكََذِلكَ, َوَكَّ بَر

Hasan. From Juzz Raf al-Yadayn by Imam Bukhari .