[Dastyh]

as-salamu alaykum

I completely accept the validity and necessity of tasawwuf and sufism but just wanted to know why is it that mureeds elevate the status of their guides?

In no other discipline of Islamic sciences do I see such deification of the teacher as I do in tasawwuf. While everyone has love and respect for their teachers, the people of tasawwuf seem to over do it. Even to the extent that there is spiritual state known as fana fil shaykh.

Fana fillah is obviously legitimate. So is fana fil rasul salallahu alayhi wasalam as Allah's pleasure lies in obedience to his Messenger.

But fana fish shaykh? If the kalima is la ilah ilallah, then why are the shaykhs so elevated? They are not infallible.

Are there any tariqahs that bypass this state?

[sapedotru]

A compitent Sheikh has fanfiullah, which means he has fanafirasool. So if a mureed strives for fanafisheikh, than he is striving for fanafiullah. Like drops of water in an ocean. That is why its called Fana.

if the Sheikh is incompitent, than fanafisheikh becomes pointless and futile.

[Karinochka]

A compitent Sheikh has fanfiullah, which means he has fanafirasool. So if a mureed strives for fanafisheikh, than he is striving for fanafiullah. Like drops of water in an ocean. That is why its called Fana.

if the Sheikh is incompitent, than fanafisheikh becomes pointless and futile.

السلام عليكم

That answer does not convince me especially that I See with my own eyes the corruption of many such Sheikhs.

[sapedotru]

There are very few compitent sheikhs, so that would make sense.

Tassawuff is not a fardh, and many cocepts within tassawuf are complex and hard to comprehend.

If have not found a sufi Sheikh who has obtained fana fi Allah, than you should not take them as your murshid.

Many turuq do not mention fana as much as Qadri and Naqshbandi. For example, Sheikh NUh and Sheikh Al yaqubi, shadhilis, do not teach any esoteric knowledge or fana based knowledge until the mureed hass reached a certain level. this is because many times a person who just enters a turuq brings with him many preconcieved notions, and nafsi inclinations. They first have the mureed perfect the Sharia, at the point where one has essentially anihilated his own nafs and adheres to the sharia in every aspect of life, he is ready for the next level. This is alsso done by Naqshbandis and Qadris, but they tend to talk about the esoteric more. This first level is the attainment of FanafiSheikh.

The concept of fanafisheikh is for the begginer to annihilate his own desires and emmulate the Mursheed in every action and breath, if the Mursheed has obtained fanafirasol, than there are no actions the Sheikh says or does that Rasoolullah(SAW) would not do. If the Mursheed has not obtained this High makaam, then the person emmulating him will be doing his work for nothing, and it could even be considered Shirk.

Like I said its like drops in an ocean, Allah is the ocean, Rasoolullah(SAW) is the first drop of pure water into that ocean, the Mursheed, who is following the example of Rasooluillah(SAW), has become the second drop of pure water, If the mureed emmulates his Mursheed he is emulating Rasoolullah(SAW).

It is hard to explain without it seeming like the Sheikh is an object of worship or is infallable, it is also a hard concept to grasp, and is not a concept for those who are not innitioated into a tariqqa to ponder upon.

If you do not have bayat to a qualified Mursheed, get one, and things will be made clear to you.

No Qualified Mursheed is going to tell you to emmulate his every action, he will tell you to annihilate yourself and so that you and Rasoolullah(SAW) are indistinguishable. By following this action, you are obtaining fanafisheikh. Fanafisheikh entails that you obey your Sheikhs directives, without him telling you explicitly.

[Roneyslelry]

There are very few mashaikh who I would describe who are fana fil rasul. With regards to shaykh Nuh and Shaykh Yaqoubi could you elaborate. Also could you tell me which naqshbandis and qadris talk about esoteric concepts? What do you mean esoteric? Could you give some examples? I came across some people who were giving out titles like fana fir rasul like candy. Their shaykh said infront of me that maulana yusuf khandalwi was fana fir rasul about which I had zerp% doubt. But then when some of his followers were claiming the maqam I was imagining their life with the life of maulana yusuf rh. There was no comparison. The true objective is shariat and sunnah. Nothing can compare to that.

[EspanaCamsInfo]

as-salamu alaykum

I completely accept the validity and necessity of tasawwuf and sufism but just wanted to know why is it that mureeds elevate the status of their guides?

In no other discipline of Islamic sciences do I see such deification of the teacher as I do in tasawwuf. While everyone has love and respect for their teachers, the people of tasawwuf seem to over do it. Even to the extent that there is spiritual state known as fana fil shaykh.

Fana fillah is obviously legitimate. So is fana fil rasul salallahu alayhi wasalam as Allah's pleasure lies in obedience to his Messenger.

But fana fish shaykh? If the kalima is la ilah ilallah, then why are the shaykhs so elevated? They are not infallible.

Are there any tariqahs that bypass this state?

The concept of fanaa its all about to justify the concept and creed of Wahdatul Wujuud.

[ExpodoDop]

the answer is very simple. what do u achieve from fana fi allah and fina fir rasool, it is complete obience of allah and the rasool. to attain these two states it is neccessary to first achive the fina fi sheikh spirtual state. the reason is because u cannot progress in tassawuf at all with complete obedience to the sheikh. this is because it is a roohani qalbi link that is between the mureed and sheikh while with other apects of islam this is not the case. the more obedient u r and respectand love u have for the sheikh the more tawajuh the sheikh can give and the more progress u can make. like i said it is not posible to walk the path of tassawuf without a sheikh. thats why to gain progress u need to be a fina fi sheikh first. fina fi allah and fina fir rasool r later stages in tassawuf which u can only achieve with the tawajuh and obedience of the sheikh. because without obedience of the sheikh u cannot progress or gain tawajuh.

however in my silsala we have completely ousted this muraqba because if not handled carefully it can leed to shirk.

[ExpodoDop]

There are very few compitent sheikhs, so that would make sense.

Tassawuff is not a fardh, and many cocepts within tassawuf are complex and hard to comprehend.

If have not found a sufi Sheikh who has obtained fana fi Allah, than you should not take them as your murshid.

Many turuq do not mention fana as much as Qadri and Naqshbandi. For example, Sheikh NUh and Sheikh Al yaqubi, shadhilis, do not teach any esoteric knowledge or fana based knowledge until the mureed hass reached a certain level. this is because many times a person who just enters a turuq brings with him many preconcieved notions, and nafsi inclinations. They first have the mureed perfect the Sharia, at the point where one has essentially anihilated his own nafs and adheres to the sharia in every aspect of life, he is ready for the next level. This is alsso done by Naqshbandis and Qadris, but they tend to talk about the esoteric more. This first level is the attainment of FanafiSheikh.

The concept of fanafisheikh is for the begginer to annihilate his own desires and emmulate the Mursheed in every action and breath, if the Mursheed has obtained fanafirasol, than there are no actions the Sheikh says or does that Rasoolullah(SAW) would not do. If the Mursheed has not obtained this High makaam, then the person emmulating him will be doing his work for nothing, and it could even be considered Shirk.

Like I said its like drops in an ocean, Allah is the ocean, Rasoolullah(SAW) is the first drop of pure water into that ocean, the Mursheed, who is following the example of Rasooluillah(SAW), has become the second drop of pure water, If the mureed emmulates his Mursheed he is emulating Rasoolullah(SAW).

It is hard to explain without it seeming like the Sheikh is an object of worship or is infallable, it is also a hard concept to grasp, and is not a concept for those who are not innitioated into a tariqqa to ponder upon.

If you do not have bayat to a qualified Mursheed, get one, and things will be made clear to you.

No Qualified Mursheed is going to tell you to emmulate his every action, he will tell you to annihilate yourself and so that you and Rasoolullah(SAW) are indistinguishable. By following this action, you are obtaining fanafisheikh. Fanafisheikh entails that you obey your Sheikhs directives, without him telling you explicitly.

truly excellent answer!!!!

i need to stress that in other aspects of islam one can progress with out a teacher. one can learn fiqh, tafseer, hadithes themselves with out a teacher, because the link between teacher and student is not spiritual or qalbi as we would call it. how ever in tassawuf one cannot attain anything what so ever without a qalbi link to a sheikh. the more obedient u r to the sheikh the more faiyz and tawajuh the sheikh can give and the more progress u can make. secondly everything in islam and tassawuf is about respect. the more respect u have in ur heart for ur sheikh the more tawajuh u receieve.its all a qalbi link.

[Aaron757]

Very good explanation by MujahidAbdullah.

Also the first marhala of fanafishaykh is a stepping stone for the other two stages. When you enter a silsilah you are placing the treatment of your spiritual illnesses in the hands of your shaykh, similarly to how you would adhere to the prescriptions of your doctor for physical illnesses. If you do not submit yourself to your shaykh and always looking to find your own solutions to spiritual problems you cannot benefit from the shaykhs experience and tawajuh because you won’t trust him.

Once you hand over the affairs of your spiritual therapy to your shaykh you improve your nafs under his guidance. Thats all it is. Its not a unconditional submission like the submission to Allah. It is dependant on their submission to the shariah.

[ancexiaepidge]

however in my silsala we have completely ousted this muraqba because if not handled carefully it can leed to shirk.

sorry to talk out of topic, but bro saqfu do you know of a Shaykh Abdul Malik (db) who has a khanqah in India and is Owaisi? Possibly linked to Maulana Allah Yar Khan (rah)?

[Rjvpicux]

Wa alaykum salam,

Fana fillah is obviously legitimate. So is fana fil rasul salallahu alayhi wasalam as Allah's pleasure lies in obedience to his Messenger.

But fana fish shaykh? If the kalima is la ilah ilallah, then why are the shaykhs so elevated? They are not infallible.

RasulAllah Sallalahu Alaihe Wasalam has said that scholars are inheritors of the Prophet. Therefore scholars must have some status with Allah.

Mujaddid Alf Thani RA said that the true inheritor is one that has knowledge of both the external sharia/fiqh and tasawuf.

[ExpodoDop]

Wa alaykum salam,
RasulAllah Sallalahu Alaihe Wasalam has said that scholars are inheritors of the Prophet. Therefore scholars must have some status with Allah.

Mujaddid Alf Thani RA said that the true inheritor is one that has knowledge of both the external sharia/fiqh and tasawuf.

another excellent post!

[ExpodoDop]

sorry to talk out of topic, but bro saqfu do you know of a Shaykh Abdul Malik (db) who has a khanqah in India and is Owaisi? Possibly linked to Maulana Allah Yar Khan (rah)?

no i have no idea about this.

[sapedotru]

There are very few mashaikh who I would describe who are fana fil rasul. With regards to shaykh Nuh and Shaykh Yaqoubi could you elaborate. Also could you tell me which naqshbandis and qadris talk about esoteric concepts? What do you mean esoteric? Could you give some examples? I came across some people who were giving out titles like fana fir rasul like candy. Their shaykh said infront of me that maulana yusuf khandalwi was fana fir rasul about which I had zerp% doubt. But then when some of his followers were claiming the maqam I was imagining their life with the life of maulana yusuf rh. There was no comparison. The true objective is shariat and sunnah. Nothing can compare to that.

There are many people who will through the title around, and to some people this may cheapen the concept of fana. Some people may become disillusioned because of all the false claims of fana. But one must realize that this is a incredibly high station to attain. The awliya who have fana fi Allah fana fi rasool are not seen in the markets and the gatherings of created, they do not wear signs or have their names plastered on bilboards, and if you happen to find one who has obtained fana, he will not tell you he has obtained fana, he will be humble and free of any pride.

The people who have obtained fana fi Allah fana fi Rasool are hard to find because they do not wish to be found, they do not put their maqaam on display for the world to view. There are a select few who have been commanded by their Rub to come out from seclusion, and have been given a particular mission, these are the Mursheed kameels, who the seeker should search for and give bayat to.

Fana Fi Sheikh can be seen in the story of Musa alayhi salaam and Kidhr alayhi salaam. Musa (AS) was not commanded by Allah to seek out Kidhr(AS), he asked Allah to show him a person more knowledgable than him on earth, so Allah guided him to Kidhr. Once he found kidhr he kidhr he basicly gave bayat to him, he pledged to follow his directives, no matter what. Musa(AS) brought pre-conceived notions, correct notions, when Musa(AS) argued with his Sheikh, he based his arguments on knowledge of the law that he had, knowledge that was correct, but Sheikh Kidhr had more knowledge, and was fulfilling the mission in which Allah had sent him on. If Musa(AS) would have said "labaik", and accepted that his knowledge was inferiour to that of Sheikh Kidhrs, he would have obtained fana fi sheikh.

Most of us are people of little knowledge, and most of us accept that the various Mursheeds on earth have far more kowledge than us. So if Allah guides you to a Mursheed kamil, your first obligation is to attain for fana fi Sheikh with that mursheed, if you bring with you pre-convceived notions, even if those notions are 100% correct. And those notions prevent you from obeying your Mursheed, you will end up like Musa(AS) in the end, the mursheed will simply tell you to move on, because you do not have enough patience to walk with him.

The mursheed is a tool for us to obtain fana fi Allah, without his guidance we can not obtain this goal. There are individuals who do not need a mursheed or a tarriqa to obtain ma'rifatullah.

In Mawlana Zakiriyyas book Shariat and Tariqat he mentions this. He mentions that if a person has obtained this high rank and continues to use the awrad and follow a mursheed he is in sin, because it is all a waste of time. Tassawuf is tool for us to attain a goal of fana fi Allah, once we have attained this goal, we no longer need tassawuf or mursheeds.

[L6RLnyfl]

I don't know how relevant this is, but Naqshbandis don't practice tasawwur ash-Shaykh... so maybe a lot easier to come to terms with than the others. Actually, Naqshbandis dhikr is a lot more contained and controlled - has no movements, and hardly any loud dhikr. Any dhikr done in a group is done individually and not in unison.

Listen to this for more:

Distinguishing Features of the Naqshbandi Tareeqah

[ancexiaepidge]

In Mawlana Zakiriyyas book Shariat and Tariqat he mentions this. He mentions that if a person has obtained this high rank and continues to use the awrad and follow a mursheed he is in sin, because it is all a waste of time. Tassawuf is tool for us to attain a goal of fana fi Allah, once we have attained this goal, we no longer need tassawuf or mursheeds.

Shaykh Hajeeji (db) was in my house a few days ago for a majlis and he said that the Goal was to become attentive towards Allah Ta'ala at all times. Some call this the final stage of Muraqaba, this is ihsan. He said that the Mashaikh will stop your Zikr when this happens. Zikr/ Tasawwur to attain fana, etc are all methods to achieve the Goal.

When the Goal of turning the heart towards Allah is achieved, Zikr will be removed. He used an example: when your making a house, you use planks, supports, scaffolding. Without those, the foundation cannot be built upon and will not become strong. Once the concrete has become hard with the support of the planks, scaffolding, they are removed. Likewise Zikr/ Shugl are like the scaffolding

Goal is that the heart is ever attentive to Allah Ta'ala

May Allah Ta'ala grant this to all

[Dastyh]

JazakAllahu khairan everyone...this seems to make more sense. If and only if the shaykh is qualified then a person would benefit from fana fil shaykh as such a shaykh would not do anything contrary to the sunnah and shariah.

It's more like a tool to obtain Allah's pleasure and not an end goal in itself. And that too only conditional on the shaykh being qualified.

There are very few compitent sheikhs, so that would make sense.

There are very few mashaikh who I would describe who are fana fil rasul.

In this day and age they are rare indeed.

[Joesred]

Only God exists ultimately--a 'reflection' of this oneness is the number one in maths, which makes all numbers without losing its uniqueness-- and this is only one 'reflection'--the universe is full of God's 'reflections' (anvaar); therefore fana fi shaikh is ultimately fana fi-Allah just as fana fi Rasul too is ultimately fana fi-Allah--because God alone exists ultimately, really. When a Mureed forgets himself in the love of his Shaikh (or Rasul-Ullah) he transcends the duality/relativity of 'you' and 'me' to attain Oneness, i.e. God. The whole world becomes a theophany, tajalli, for such a person, which he does not confront as a confronting other--such a person becomes what he beholds. That is why a true Shaikh appears to be different every time you see him--according to your own spiritual state.

Shadhili Shaikh Isa Nurudin Ahmad (Frithjof Schuon) has pointed out that the first part of the kalma is a message while the second part is a person-- both are theophanies, hence the two approaches --the Deobandi Zahiri Sharia of a Mullah through the message and the Barelwi Batini Tariqa of a Sufi through the person; one about learning tauheed (through the mind) and the other about drinking on tauheed (through the heart).

One Fana fi-Rasul Shaikh-i-Kamil alive today is Idrisi shaikh Hazrat Al-Shaikh Al-Hafiz Amin bin Abdul Rahman (Rahmat-Ullah alaih) at 381-A, Shah Rukn-i-Alam Colony, New Multan. Go and see him once to know what Aulia look and feel like. Idrisia stemmed from Shadhilia in the 18th century; Shadhilia stemmed from Qadiria in the thirteenth.

[Indessasp]

I don't know how relevant this is, but Naqshbandis don't practice tasawwur ash-Shaykh... so maybe a lot easier to come to terms with than the others. Actually, Naqshbandis dhikr is a lot more contained and controlled - has no movements, and hardly any loud dhikr. Any dhikr done in a group is done individually and not in unison.

Listen to this for more:

Distinguishing Features of the Naqshbandi Tareeqah

That's not necessarily true, there are many Naqshbandis that do practice tasawwur ash-shaykh.

[Karinochka]

By Any chance are some people implying that God is everyone and everyone is God and That I am god and you are God ect.... You know, That sorta thing?