[zoolissentesy]

I would appreciate some guidance with trying to understand islams viewpoint on the universe and how large it is. I understand some people argue that the 6 days, ~6000 years ago, in which God created the earth and heavens are representative of a much longer time period but I'm not sure how the two are consistent with what we know about our universe presently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jym...eature=channel

The milky way is an insignificant blip in this vast existence, and our solar system is to the universe, even less than what a single atom is to our solar system. The universe is truly incredible and I find that not enough of the muslim society is studying space and contributing to the glorious discoveries made every year.

Thank you in advance for your help =)

[gomosopions]

6000 years? Isn't that a christian belief?

I've never heard an Islamic Scholar or any text say the Universe is 6000 years old.

Also, in early periods of Islamic history, Muslims were the greatest contributers to Astronomy.

I would strongly recommend you did some searches here, will find alot of useful information about Muslims and Astronomy - http://searching-islam.com/

Check this out - http://www.islamic-study.org/astronomy.htm

[zoolissentesy]

6000 years? Isn't that a christian belief?

I've never heard an Islamic Scholar or any text say the Universe is 6000 years old.

Also, in early periods of Islamic history, Muslims were the greatest contributers to Astronomy.

I would strongly recommend you did some searches here, will find alot of useful information about Muslims and Astronomy - http://searching-islam.com/

Check this out - http://www.islamic-study.org/astronomy.htm

Thank you for your reply! I was interested in the links, though I had meant the universe on its greatest scale. I know that there have been contributions with respect to astronomical discoveries such as the moons orbit but I seldom hear scholars discussing the expansion of the universe (for example). Are there any conferences, or video lectures on the material that I can watch? Most that I've found focus on 'why the big bang can't be proved' rather than the current astronomical findings and research being done. I'd love to see an islamic perspective on this.

[rsdefwgxvcfdts]

I would appreciate some guidance with trying to understand islams viewpoint on the universe and how large it is. I understand some people argue that the 6 days, ~6000 years ago, in which God created the earth and heavens are representative of a much longer time period but I'm not sure how the two are consistent with what we know about our universe presently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U&feature=channel

The milky way is an insignificant blip in this vast existence, and our solar system is to the universe, even less than what a single atom is to our solar system. The universe is truly incredible and I find that not enough of the muslim society is studying space and contributing to the glorious discoveries made every year.

Thank you in advance for your help =)

when Allah says 'yaum' it can mean various periods of time, including big periods of time.

a lot of scientists are Muslims you just don't hear of them and they have to keep their mouths shut on their beliefs or they would not be able to work for the non-Muslims (christian scientists often face a similar dilemma)

http://scienceislam.com/scientists_quran.php

[rsdefwgxvcfdts]

if you want to see the revival of Muslim science pray for the revival of the Islamic civilization -

it established the foundations of science and may one day take science far beyond its current state -

but whilst the Muslims live in non-Islamic societies even in most of the Muslim lands how can we expect them to produce interesting scientific developments?

especially as nearly all major scientific institutions are dominated by the materialists due simply to the fact that the materialists have dominated economic, academic and political power in the world during recent history.

furthermore several top Muslim physicists have been assassinated or kidnapped in the past few years due to the enemies of Islam fearing that they will help Muslim countries develop nuclear weapons

anyway it is up to Muslims such as yourself to bring up their children (if they have them) to know science as well as Islam as they are the future of the Ummah. However, Muslims need to be careful not to allow their children with the materialist propaganda that has been mixed into much of the educational materials on scientific themes.

you may like to read http://www.fountainmagazine.com/ it concerns matters of Islam and science etc.

[rsdefwgxvcfdts]

6000 years? Isn't that a christian belief?

I've never heard an Islamic Scholar or any text say the Universe is 6000 years old.

Also, in early periods of Islamic history, Muslims were the greatest contributers to Astronomy.

I would strongly recommend you did some searches here, will find alot of useful information about Muslims and Astronomy - http://searching-islam.com/

Check this out - http://www.islamic-study.org/astronomy.htm

yes I hadn't heard Muslims teaching this belief, I think the literalist Christians think the world started between 4-8 thousand years ago, this is not a belief of Islam.

I like this book by Maurice Bucaille...

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/BibleQuranScience.pdf

and this one...

http://www.sultan.org/articles/QScience.html

[Catalogov]

What do you think is known about the universe today? How does this knowing make us into better human beings and how does it make us behave? Does this knowledge that you think human beings are in possession of alter and shape our world-view and what sort of assumptions and world-views gave rise to this knowledge in the first place?

I think these questions are important because they allow us to then understand the knowledge claims. Epistemology is the study of how human beings come to know things or to gain knowledge. We have our five senses and other internal faculties, we also make assumptions therefore the knowledge that we may claim to have may not actually be true, it might be pure speculation masquerading as truth...if we want to find the truth we have to be self critical about all knowledge claims...scientists who are making head lines and who speak to the masses tend to exaggerate their knowledge claims and they tend to ignore the problems with their own knowledge claims.

My understanding of one Muslim perspective, is that each human being is at the centre of their universe, they cannot experience life from the perspective of someone else you are always looking out from your own body and so you are at the centre of your universe. It feels like all the outside world is vastly extended and your tiny little body is actually situated in a sea without a shore and you are as if a 'non entity'. This is the materialistic perspective. The Muslim view is that the ruh or soul of the human being is actually vast and the small body is not the human being. The world out there is actually contained or is inside the human soul, we can with our thinking travel to distant worlds in mili-seconds. Allah swt is the Observer of our souls, He is closer than the jugular vein (the line that gives us conciousness).

A hadith a Qudsi:

Allah swt says:

My heaven and My earth do not contain Me, but the heart (or soul) of my believing servant contains Me.

Materialist science has only considered the material body of man, they imagine that they are a small body floating on a dust particle known as earth, looking out into a vast universe and that man is separate from the universe and has no connection with the outside.

Allah swt says:

I am in the opinion of My Servant.

If we think of ourselves in the materialistic way we shall experience life in that way...if we see it differently we shall have a different experience. Do not let the materialists misguide you into thinking that matter is all that there is.

The You Tube Video you posted in this thread puts the camera at the centre of the universe and this puts the human observer at the centre. It means we are at the centre. Also according to Islamic teachings the earth is not inert or 'dead matter'...it is capable of speech, little stones in the hands of the Prophet salalahualayhi wasalam proclaimed the kalima la ila ha ilallah, and when the Muezzin makes the call to prayer everwhere that his voice reaches will bear witness on the Day of Judgement that the Muezzin said those things. It means everything is alive and living, nothing is as the materialists imagine.

[rsdefwgxvcfdts]

If someone thinks that the universe is big they should think about this.

Allah has a so called 'stool' and a 'divine throne' - they are not like the stool or throne of an anthropomorphic being as Allah is not an anthropomorphic being nor is He (SWT) like anything at all else that you can imagine - He (SWT) is beyond our comprehension and unlimited by the limits of space or time ..

sister you point out that...

The milky way is an insignificant blip in this vast existence,

and our solar system is to the universe, even less than what a single atom is to our solar system.

The universe is truly incredible

and you may like to think about something even more truly incredible...

Ibn Abbas narrated that,

"If the seven heavens and the seven earths were flattened and laid side by side,

they would add up to the size of a ring in a desert,

compared to the Kursi (the stool of Allah)."

(Ibn Abi Hatim 3:981)

and further that Ibn Abbas narrated that...

"Kursi is the footstool, and no one is able to give due consideration to [Allah's] Throne." (i.e. no one can start to imagine it)

(At-Tabarani 12:39)...

[Karinochka]

-

but whilst the Muslims live in non-Islamic societies even in most of the Muslim lands how can we expect them to produce interesting scientific developments?

One thing can be done now itself.

Start pestering retired scientists to open their mouth on these issues. I hope after their retirement they are relatively free from western pressures related to career.

So each and every SF member should take a pledge that each and every astronomer, botanist, chemist, mathematician, molecular biologist, physicist, zoologist they know will be pestered by them to say some thing relevant on this.

And I warn you - you are against a wall. I asked a retired theoretical physicist turned historian of astronomy - have you some interest in Islam. No I have left that to you - that is what he said.

And I am not saying this to discourage anybody. The point is that for far too long have been fooling ourselves - it is time to stop doing that.

Wassalam

[Dwencejed]

Also, I have read that everything you can see, all the stars, planets, galaxies, clouds in the Universe is only 5% of everything.

Another 25% they say is "dark matter", or better described as unseen matter. Astronomers were studying the orbits of stars in the galaxies and found they were moving too fast, the stars should be flying out rather than following an orbit. The motion was explained by an unseen "dark matter" enclosing each galaxy, five times more abundant than the matter that can be seen. This dark matter does not interact with light or any radiation, it does not absorb or reflect or transmit, and is not a source of any light or radiation. It does have mass, and its gravity keeps the stars in place.

Another 70% of the stuff in the universe, they say, is "dark energy" which they simply don't know what it is yet.

[Dwencejed]

Also, I have read that everything you can see, all the stars, planets, galaxies, clouds in the Universe is only 5% of everything.

Another 25% they say is "dark matter", or better described as unseen matter. Astronomers were studying the orbits of stars in the galaxies and found they were moving too fast, the stars should be flying out rather than following an orbit. The motion was explained by an unseen "dark matter" enclosing each galaxy, five times more abundant than the matter that can be seen. This dark matter does not interact with light or any radiation, it does not absorb or reflect or transmit, and is not a source of any light or radiation. It does have mass, and its gravity keeps the stars in place.

Another 70% of the stuff in the universe, they say, is "dark energy" which they simply don't know what it is yet.