[ibupronec]

why is it that arab scholars teach books they have written on variuos islamic sciences and issue an ijaaza to deserving students,
yet, as far as i know this is not the case with ulamaa from the sub continent.

what i mean is that it is possible to gain ijaaza on books written by classical scholars from middle east, yet i have never
heard of anyone holding ijaaza leading back to books on fiqh etc written by great scholars such as
- shaykhul hind,
- maulana ashraf ali thanavi
- shaykul hadith maulana zakaria saheb etc etc.

why is this the case?

[xIuvyAuT]

why is it that arab scholars teach books they have written on variuos islamic sciences and issue an ijaaza to deserving students,
yet, as far as i know this is not the case with ulamaa from the sub continent.

what i mean is that it is possible to gain ijaaza on books written by classical scholars from middle east, yet i have never
heard of anyone holding ijaaza leading back to books on fiqh etc written by great scholars such as
- shaykhul hind,
- maulana ashraf ali thanavi
- shaykul hadith maulana zakaria saheb etc etc.

why is this the case?

I'm under the impression that the Darse Nizami system incorporates the ijazah system at a “higher level”; i.e., instead of getting ijazas one by one by studying book after book under a single scholar, you get a number of ijazas at the end of your 5-6-7-8 years curriculum, for all the books you've gone through under your teachers at the Darul Uloom.
Examples of Ijazas by Deobandi scholars (going through the Akabir) could be find on the net; for example the Ijazah of Shaykh Riyadh ul Haq for the Sahih al-Bukhari:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YePXWGxc52Y

[vaalmerruutel]

why is it that arab scholars teach books they have written on variuos islamic sciences and issue an ijaaza to deserving students,
yet, as far as i know this is not the case with ulamaa from the sub continent.

what i mean is that it is possible to gain ijaaza on books written by classical scholars from middle east, yet i have never
heard of anyone holding ijaaza leading back to books on fiqh etc written by great scholars such as
- shaykhul hind,
- maulana ashraf ali thanavi
- shaykul hadith maulana zakaria saheb etc etc.

why is this the case?

If you think these ijazat are only given to "deserving" students, then you are severely mistaken. They carry no academic value whatsoever and are simply a means of carrying on our tradition. In fact, they can often be detrimental in that students often waste their timing chasing after these ijazat rather than focusing on what is more important.

[GustavM]

jazakallah khairan godiali this is very true. I call them candy ijazahs. This trend was primarily set by the traditionalist movement to gain some credibility. I have ijazah from so and so, so im a big shot etc. It does not really matter who a person has ijazah from or in what texts. What actually matters is that one has mastered the topics. I myself have ijazah in a few texts and I can't even read arabic without iraab....some of the texts I have ijazah in probably most ulema cannot even understand them. I myself am clueless about the topics. An ijazah is just a form of barakah and nothing more. Even people sleeping in classes were given ijazahs and sometimes in the traditional way mashaikh would give ijazahs to whole cities, families, wife and children.....i.e. it was just for barakah in most cases.

[ibupronec]

giving ijaazah is a tradition of the scholars of ahl us sunnah, and links the recipient to the scholar it is gained from.

in my humble opinion ijaazah should only be given to deserving students - those that have understood the text fully.

with some scholars handing out ijaaza like sweets, no wonder groups such as the 'salafiyah' laugh and criticize this tradition

and use it to justify their scholars not having and not needing ijaazah.


wallahuaalim.

[vaalmerruutel]

- Many salafi scholars have plenty of ijazat.
- Some 'traditional islam'-approved scholars like Shu`ayb al-Arna'ut (he is kind of Salafi leaning, but he has been praised by Nuh Keller and sunnipath) have downplayed the importance of ijazat as well.
- Some of my colleagues and I had the opportunity to receive ijazah from several famous scholars like Nur al-Din `Itr, Muhammad `Awwamah, Habib `Umar, etc. The only one we actually studied with was Shaykh `Itr, and that was only for a few weeks. There were people in the dars that would talk on their cell phone and read newspapers, and they receive the ijazah as well, lol. It has become a means of marketing online courses in the West. If I wanted, I could simply mention that I received ijazat from all of these big-named scholars without mentioning that I did not study with them on a one-to-one basis or for a prolonged period of time in order to impress people and the West and get them to think I am some sort of big shaykh.
- I can show you quotes from classical `ulama like ibn Hajr and al-Suyuti criticizing their contemporaries for overemphasis on seeking ijazat.

The above being said, I feel greatly honored to have had the opportunity to receive ijazat from those shuyukh in the sense that it connects me to our Islamic heritage, but I am neither delusional enough to feel that they are of academic value, nor do I wish to deceive others into thinking that they are.

[vaalmerruutel]

some of the texts I have ijazah in probably most ulema cannot even understand them.

Can you mention these texts that most `ulama cannot understand?

[bunkalapa]

...
- I can show you quotes from classical `ulama like ibn Hajr and al-Suyuti criticizing their contemporaries for overemphasis on seeking ijazat.

....

I know that you are busy brother, but those quotes would be beneficial and eye opening so if you can provide them and have the time, please do so insha'allah.

[vaalmerruutel]

This is from ibn Hajr's Nuzhat al-Nazr
والثَّانِي : العُلُوُّ النِّسْبِيُّ : وهُو ما يقلُّ العددُ فيهِ إِلى ذلك { ب / 22 أ } الإِمامِ ، ولو كانَ العددُ { ظ / 34 أ } من ذلك الإِمامِ إِلى مُنتهاهُ كَثيراً .
وقد عَظُمَتْ رغبةُ المُتأَخِّرينَ فيهِ ، حتَّى غَلَبَ ذلك على كثيرٍ منهُم ، بحيثُ أَهْمَلوا الاشتِغالَ بما (19) هُو أَهمُّ منهُ .
وإِنَّما كانَ العلوُّ مَرغوباً فيهِ ؛ لكونِه أَقربَ إِلى الصحَّةِ ، وقلَّةِ الخطأِ ؛ لأنَّهُ (20) ما مِن راوٍ مِن رجالِ الإِسنادِ إِلاَّ والخطأُ جائزٌ عليهِ ، فكلَّما (21) كَثُرتِ الوسائطُ وطالَ السَّندُ ؛ كَثُرَتْ مظانُّ التَّجويزِ ، وكلَّما (22){ هـ / 24 ب } قلَّتْ ؛ قلََّتْ .

This is from al-Suyuti's Tadrib al-Rawi:

ولم أكن كغيري ممن يدعي الحديث بغير علم ، وقصارى أمره كثرة السماع على كل شيخ وعجوز ، غير ملتفت إلى معرفة ما يحتاج المحدث إليه أن يجوز ، ولا مكترث بالبحث عما يمتنع أو يجوز ، ثم ظن الانفراد بجمع الكتب والضن بها على طلابها ، فهو كمثل الحمار يحمل أسفاراً عارياً عن الانتفاع بخطابها . إن سُئل عن مسألة في المصطلح لم يهتد إلى جوابها ، أو عرضت له مسألة في دينه لم يعرف خطأها من صوابها ، أو تلفظ بكلمة من الحديث لم يأمن أن يزل في إعرابها ، فصار بذلك ضحكة للناظرين ، وهزأة للساخرين ، واللّه تعالى حسبي وهو خير الناصرين .

Hopefully one of the other brothers can translate.

[Drugmachine]

Let me write about 'shaykul hadith maulana zakaria saheb'

People who doesnt have any ilm of deen argue on his works.
Its really stupid for an individual to argue on the works of Ulema that too Ml Zakriya saheb. Before commenting anything, he must know about Ml Zakriya sahb and his pious family & see the mirror about us and our family.

Yesterday I met a guy, that guy watched some youtube video and tells that Fadhail e amal is false hence no tabligh....
I have decided that I am not going to convince anyone about Ml Zakriya Sahb's Fadhail e amal or other collections. If you want read it, else dont read it. As Salamu 'alaikum

[ulnanVti]

If you think these ijazat are only given to "deserving" students, then you are severely mistaken. They carry no academic value whatsoever and are simply a means of carrying on our tradition. In fact, they can often be detrimental in that students often waste their timing chasing after these ijazat rather than focusing on what is more important.

jazakallah khairan godiali this is very true. I call them candy ijazahs. This trend was primarily set by the traditionalist movement to gain some credibility. I have ijazah from so and so, so im a big shot etc. It does not really matter who a person has ijazah from or in what texts. What actually matters is that one has mastered the topics. I myself have ijazah in a few texts and I can't even read arabic without iraab....some of the texts I have ijazah in probably most ulema cannot even understand them. I myself am clueless about the topics. An ijazah is just a form of barakah and nothing more. Even people sleeping in classes were given ijazahs and sometimes in the traditional way mashaikh would give ijazahs to whole cities, families, wife and children.....i.e. it was just for barakah in most cases.

[vaalmerruutel]

Another relevant quote from Fath al-Mugith:

ولأجل هذا قال العماد بن كثير إنه نوع قليل الجدوى بالنسبة لباقي الفنون ونحوه قول شيخنا وقد عظمت رغبة المتأخرين فيه حتى غلب ذلك على كثير منهم بحيث أهملوا الاشتغال بما هو أهم منه وسبقه ابن دقيق العيد فقال وقد عظمت رغبة المتأخرين في طلب العلو حتى كان ذلك سببا لخلل كثير في الصنعة ولم يكن فيه إلا الإعراض عمن طلب العلم بنفسه بتمييزه إلى من أجلس صغيرا لا تمييز له ولا ضبط ولا فهم طلبا للعلو وتقدم السماع وكذا قال ابن الصلاح عند ذكر الموافقات وما معها وقد كثر اعتناء المحدثين المتأخرين بهذا النوع

[GustavM]

brother the 2 difficult books were related to mustalul hadeeth. The first one nukhbatul fikr is famous but it was definitely mind boggling. The 2nd one was even more difficult written by imam hakim rh the author of mustadrak.

[GustavM]

with regards to ulema then mostly I'm talking about some of the darse e nizami graduates who I discussed the book with who were also baffled a bit.

[Qnpqbpac]

السلام عليكم

So if the ijaza system has no academic worth, how do we know we are learning the most orthodox version of islam?

Plenty of deviants would have received an ijaza in the past, how do we know what we're learning is representative proper sunni islam? Does it even exist anymore?

If they just hand out ijazas to everyone, it seems like there's nothing preventing the whole ummah from becoming deviant, are there no checks and balances, nothing like the catholic church which would prevent heretical beliefs from coming to predominate?