[padlabtard]

I think from my point of view, the OP is actually suppose to talk about the taboo in the culture, not actually something that exist in religion itself.

I had teenage daughter and son at the moment. Yes, in someway, world had change. Won't matter how we teach our children, too much information out there and we cannot keep them in tact with us 24/7 even we are homeschool them. I understand what OP mean by practical method. I don't think he try to make Islam a joke in this case. I think unless someone had to confront with the teenage problem around them and having their own teenager in the family , than they might be able to understand but in extend of observant as well. Because these days, the challenge is big. Which is why whoever can bring one sunnah in this time and age, will be reward of 100 martyred. Because it's not easy for lots of people. Of course the solution is back to what the Quran and hadith says. !00 % and n doubt about it. and the approach also had to be in very detail.

I think we in this case more into having a taboo in the culture. Islam and sex need to be educate and teach to our youngster. To understand the biological needs and what is happening to their body, so they can learn from Islamic teaching on how to help and avoid doing thing that they shouldn't. Of course from my experience at the moment is to talk about this. When ever we , as a parents talk about this, it has to be two together. Islam and sex, they should come as a set. How to approach the topic also had to be learn either by teacher or preferably by parents especially mother themselves.

To tell the truth, recently I had a conversation with my husband about what age did he change his voice. What age he had a dream. What is his reaction towards it. Feeling, mind. What feeling he got towards sex and private part. I said to him I need to know all this to understand as my son is 14 becoming 15. Because I had 16 years old daughter and of course as a woman, I can relate to what a girl went through. although we tend to forget.

Many of us, especially Asian parents, 'ignore' this. we think that by teaching or telling our teens that no girlfriend, no boy friend, it's a sins is good enough. We think by giving a 'hint' is good enough. I mean, in reality, we cannot get them married till they finish school, which can be 16 in most cases. In reality many parents are also very choosy in finding the husband or wife for their children. This is in practical and I can say, before we are in the situation, it's easy to talk about the solution than when we had to confront ourself. It's different when we had to confront the situation as a person than as a parents. I think OP had worried about the taboo in muslim community , do not want to talk through about the topic and ignore the problem. We can talk about this easily in the forum, but when the matter come face to face , than the reality hit.

For the OP, if you ask what to do, for me, we had to throw away our shyness with our children and talk through, according to the situation, level of maturity and step by step. This is what I had done and am doing. We parents , need to educate ourself first. Also, between husband and wife, we had to make sure, sex topic is not a taboo things. If husband and wife be able to discuss this in reality, than it can be a bit easy. Open up is important, but with guideline from the Quran and hadith. How we approach had to be as we taught in the manner that we should have when talking and teaching our kids. This issue cannot be ignore and we had to open up with Islam as a guidance.

[highattainlet]

...Isolation of girls and boys isn't a good idea in today's world.

no it is a good idea but almost impossible

[dWSOj26H]

Bro auzer and everyone else,
I have a suggestion that if we have kids we should let them do nikah at a young age. You dont need to do a civil marraige at that stage.
Now we won't be able to get all the old people and make them do this to their kids(we can lecture and warn them) but we can implement this in our own life.
I am fed up of seeing threads that have only arguments but no solutions.

[dWSOj26H]

no it is a good idea but almost impossible

now that is more closer to the truth.

[highattainlet]

i must say that this is also from schools about a couple years ago when i was 13 or 14 we wached a movie in health class that had sex scens in it and that just gets the idea into kids heads the movie was "shes to young" and i found it so disturbing i didnt look up and wach instead i did some math homework or spanish dousent matter.... so that is why it is also the schools fault

[DrJonson]

I have a suggestion that if we have kids we should let them do nikah at a young age. You dont need to do a civil marraige at that stage.

that is the solution, but only if they are really suitable for it and they really need it - but in many cases this is true.

I remember the shock one time of a European school teacher who was working in one of the Gulf states when he found out that almost half of his class of teenagers were already married and drove etc (although they still lived in the family home) at an age when in his country this would have been hard to imagine (although a blind eye would have been turned to youths of the same age if they were engaged in fornication in his country)

- that school teacher soon came to the view that it was the Arabs who were correct not the Europeans, especially in the way that it nearly always makes naturally more mature youths so much calmer when they are married compared to the angst ridden sexually frustrated teenagers that they would mostly have been otherwise.

[Zvmwissq]

no it is a good idea but almost impossible

Thank you. Let me be more clear now :

To insist on something that almost literally 'impossible' is a VERY bad idea. So Muslims should FORGET about 'keep your gaze lower , don't talk to opposite sex' etc and start finding solutions for mixed environments , which are the future of nations all across the globe.

PS .... Muslim should have respect in their eyes but keeping our gaze lower is impossible because when I have to talk to my girl co-workers during any science lab project , I can't 'keep my gaze lower' but I can have 'respect' and not 'pervertness' in my eyes.

[Zvmwissq]

I think from my point of view, the OP is actually suppose to talk about the taboo in the culture, not actually something that exist in religion itself.

I had teenage daughter and son at the moment. Yes, in someway, world had change. Won't matter how we teach our children, too much information out there and we cannot keep them in tact with us 24/7 even we are homeschool them. I understand what OP mean by practical method. I don't think he try to make Islam a joke in this case. I think unless someone had to confront with the teenage problem around them and having their own teenager in the family , than they might be able to understand but in extend of observant as well. Because these days, the challenge is big. Which is why whoever can bring one sunnah in this time and age, will be reward of 100 martyred. Because it's not easy for lots of people. Of course the solution is back to what the Quran and hadith says. !00 % and n doubt about it. and the approach also had to be in very detail.

I think we in this case more into having a taboo in the culture. Islam and sex need to be educate and teach to our youngster. To understand the biological needs and what is happening to their body, so they can learn from Islamic teaching on how to help and avoid doing thing that they shouldn't. Of course from my experience at the moment is to talk about this. When ever we , as a parents talk about this, it has to be two together. Islam and sex, they should come as a set. How to approach the topic also had to be learn either by teacher or preferably by parents especially mother themselves.

To tell the truth, recently I had a conversation with my husband about what age did he change his voice. What age he had a dream. What is his reaction towards it. Feeling, mind. What feeling he got towards sex and private part. I said to him I need to know all this to understand as my son is 14 becoming 15. Because I had 16 years old daughter and of course as a woman, I can relate to what a girl went through. although we tend to forget.

Many of us, especially Asian parents, 'ignore' this. we think that by teaching or telling our teens that no girlfriend, no boy friend, it's a sins is good enough. We think by giving a 'hint' is good enough. I mean, in reality, we cannot get them married till they finish school, which can be 16 in most cases. In reality many parents are also very choosy in finding the husband or wife for their children. This is in practical and I can say, before we are in the situation, it's easy to talk about the solution than when we had to confront ourself. It's different when we had to confront the situation as a person than as a parents. I think OP had worried about the taboo in muslim community , do not want to talk through about the topic and ignore the problem. We can talk about this easily in the forum, but when the matter come face to face , than the reality hit.

For the OP, if you ask what to do, for me, we had to throw away our shyness with our children and talk through, according to the situation, level of maturity and step by step. This is what I had done and am doing. We parents , need to educate ourself first. Also, between husband and wife, we had to make sure, sex topic is not a taboo things. If husband and wife be able to discuss this in reality, than it can be a bit easy. Open up is important, but with guideline from the Quran and hadith. How we approach had to be as we taught in the manner that we should have when talking and teaching our kids. This issue cannot be ignore and we had to open up with Islam as a guidance.

Thumbs up ! Thanks for understanding my post madam. To expect teenagers to 'lower their gaze' and have 'no feeling of attraction towards the opposite sex' is just ridiculous. Muslims should come in the real world now. We must talk to our children frankly and discuss sexuality with them... Tell them that if they like some girl/boy and the other one also like them , then they should tell it to parents and can have nikah and now they are 'girl-friend/boy-friend' and this is absolutely Islamic. That is what I mean by new approach to implementation of Islam in our lives..

[jeargefef]

Thank you. Let me be more clear now :

To insist on something that almost literally 'impossible' is a VERY bad idea. So Muslims should FORGET about 'keep your gaze lower , don't talk to opposite sex' etc and start finding solutions for mixed environments , which are the future of nations all across the globe.

PS .... Muslim should have respect in their eyes but keeping our gaze lower is impossible because when I have to talk to my girl co-workers during any science lab project , I can't 'keep my gaze lower' but I can have 'respect' and not 'pervertness' in my eyes.

Actually, you can lower your gaze when talking to your girl science partners The fact is, the Sharia does not change with the times. The commands are clear and they are to be obeyed

[Qeiafib]

Auzer,

Your idea of early nikah is fine...but I just don't understand why you insist on throwing away the shariah just because it's hard on your nafs. Yes, you can talk to your lab partners without looking at them. If they ask why you won't look at them, just explain that it's your religion. What do you mean start finding solutions for mixed environments? Lowering the gaze is a solution for mixed environments. Duh! It's not like you have to lower your gaze in a men-only environment.

And by the way,

قُل لِّلْمُؤْمِنِينَ يَغُضُّوا مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِمْ وَيَحْفَظُوا فُرُوجَهُمْ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ أَزْكَىٰ لَهُمْ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ خَبِيرٌ بِمَا يَصْنَعُونَ

Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.

Surah Nur, 30

^That is an ayah of the Quran. To reject it is kufr. So you should think hard about your statement that Muslims should forget about lowering the the gaze.

[Zvmwissq]

Actually, you can lower your gaze when talking to your girl science partners The fact is, the Sharia does not change with the times. The commands are clear and they are to be obeyed

Probably you haven't work in a science lab.......ever.

Your rigid approach is the evidence of impracticality in Muslim thought today. Try dissecting a leech with any science student (girl) ...and then tell me if you were successful in "keeping your gaze lower" while performing the dissection and discussing your lab tasks with your partner..What about comparing the results and analyzing the results?...This is the simplest of examples I'm giving you....Don't even think of dissecting pig , frog etc (Forget about operating on human body...) ...

Now please , keep it real and practical.....bye

[zoolissentesy]

So Muslims should FORGET about 'keep your gaze lower , don't talk to opposite sex' etc and start finding solutions for mixed environments , which are the future of nations all across the globe.

Bro, think before you speak. To lower ones gaze is a direct order of Allah Ta'ala in the Quran. A lot of good Muslims practice is properly. We have trouble doing it due to our fault. There is nothing wrong in Islam.
P.s. Islam is ok with Parents giving children sex education. Its a different matter from lowering the gaze.

Auzer,

Your idea of early nikah is fine...but I just don't understand why you insist on throwing away the shariah just because it's hard on your nafs. Yes, you can talk to your lab partners without looking at them. If they ask why you won't look at them, just explain that it's your religion. What do you mean start finding solutions for mixed environments? Lowering the gaze is a solution for mixed environments. Duh! It's not like you have to lower your gaze in a men-only environment.

And by the way,

قُل لِّلْمُؤْمِنِينَ يَغُضُّوا مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِمْ وَيَحْفَظُوا فُرُوجَهُمْ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ أَزْكَىٰ لَهُمْ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ خَبِيرٌ بِمَا يَصْنَعُونَ

Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.

Surah Nur, 30

^That is an ayah of the Quran. To reject it is kufr. So you should think hard about your statement that Muslims should forget about lowering the the gaze.

[zoolissentesy]

Now please , keep it real and practical.....bye

Let me tell you how to be real and practical: Don't sell the HEREAFTER for this DUNYA.

Knowing about a rule and disobeying is a sin, but rejecting a rule of Allah Ta'ala is a bigger sin. Don't try to justify things according to 'western' standards. Ithaqullah, Fear Allah. This goes for me first.

[avodeinst]

Probably you haven't work in a science lab.......ever.

Your rigid approach is the evidence of impracticality in Muslim thought today. Try dissecting a leech with any science student (girl) ...and then tell me if you were successful in "keeping your gaze lower" while performing the dissection and discussing your lab tasks with your partner..What about comparing the results and analyzing the results?...This is the simplest of examples I'm giving you....Don't even think of dissecting pig , frog etc (Forget about operating on human body...) ...

Now please , keep it real and practical.....bye

Bismihee Ta'aala

Asalamualaikum.


Maybe you just don't want to follow shariah and the words of our beloved Nabi (SAW)? I'm not saying I am better than you, but your not the only person who studies in America. I once had a discussion with my female teacher on why I don't look at her. She totally accepted it and said that's fine. I told her don't take it offensively, but my religion doesn't allow me to look at females even if they are my teacher.

Now I am not implying I'm some pious guy, I do slip many times. However, the point is that it is very practical not to look at women if we want to. Alhumdulillah I still don't know how the girl next to me in class looks like. You just have to have self control.

Allah (SWT) did give us a brain like you said. He also gave us the ability to block out what we want. The reason that men are so "horny" is because of what they think about. Of course if you look at a women, sooner or later your going to get some perverted thoughts about her. That is why your supposed to block these thoughts out of your head. The more you think about it, the more your going to end up doing something haram.

Also its very practical for young people to get married. I know some people in Texas, both guy and girl are 16 years old and married SubhanAllah.

Even if you look at our grandparents, what age did they get married? My grand-mother got married when she was 13 and had her first child when she was 14 or 15.

We have living proof that people can get married young and stay together. The only reason we dont think its practical nowadays is because of all the brain-washing from the western media.

[viagraman]

So Muslims should FORGET about 'keep your gaze lower

Na'oozu Billah
Na'oozu Billah
Na'oozu Billah

You are asking Muslims to reject an explicit order of the Qur'aan.

[KukkoDrukko]

I am fed up of seeing threads that have only arguments but no solutions.

Me too! Its because most of those who are commenting on Bro Auzer's post have no idea how difficult it is for Muslim teenagers living in US to stay chaste. I think the situation is changing in other countries as well, but its still manageable. I think the only solution is to get married as early as one possibly can.

[viagraman]

^ I disagree with this. Most of the members on this thread are from non Muslim countries and live in places where intermingling takes place.

Lowering the gaze is not impossible as OP is making it seem.

And Allah Ta'aala has given the solutions to the problems of shahwah. It is the weakness of Muslims that they would rather search for other solutions than follow what Allah Ta'aala has prescribed.

We are so ready to stand up and tell people to forget orders of Allah, yet cannot stand up to our parents and tell them we want to marry to protect our chastity! Who are we going to face on the Day of Judgement?

[KukkoDrukko]

^ I disagree with this. Most of the members on this thread are from non Muslim countries and live in places where intermingling takes place.

Lowering the gaze is not impossible as OP is making it seem.

And Allah Ta'aala has given the solutions to the problems of shahwah. It is the weakness of Muslims that they would rather search for other solutions than follow what Allah Ta'aala has prescribed.

We are so ready to stand up and tell people to forget orders of Allah, yet cannot stand up to our parents and tell them we want to marry to protect our chastity! Who are we going to face on the Day of Judgement?

Don't get me wrong, I am not advising anyone to go against the Sharia, and to not to lower their gaze, or to do anything that Allah (swt) and RasoolAllah (saw) advised against. But, we all have to be practical when giving advice to others taking into consideration their situations, and it could be that to those who you are imparting advice might not be following Islam completely. For example, if a Christian friend, who loves alcohol and pork, comes to us and inquires about Islam, should the first thing that we tell him about Islam is that alcohol and pork is not allowed, or should we use some hikmah. We have to use the same hikmah here as well. Instead of expecting and asking those who are looking for help to step up to our level, please why don’t we step down to their level. Therefore, if you tell a teenager that he should always lower his gaze, and not to talk to any female, though it could work in some cases , however it would mostly likely not going to go down very well. I think the first step that should be taken is to get as many teenagers and youths as possible to Masjid. The problem we face in most Masjids in US is that Mussalis between the age of 10-30 years are mostly absent. I think the majority of blame goes to parents who are not able to connect with their kids eventhough they fully understand the environment but they refuse to do anything positive about it. The OP present one such failure of parent’s responsibility, where instead of understanding the kids issue and resolving it (by marrying them at young age or counseling their kids of the ill effects of interacting with opposite sex), they just act blind, wishfully thinking that if they ignore the problem, it will just go away.

[Hsmrcahr]

Do what's within you capability. Putting on a hijab/barrier between male and female doesn't mean you blind your eyes and walk around. Use your rational faculty and shift your head when u see your sight being caught in a desiring manner onto a women's face. If you have shyness, it wud happen automatically. I'm sure the sahabas must have dealt with more difficult situations seeing that in many lesser civilised parts of the world women even had to walk topless.

[Qeiafib]

Probably you haven't work in a science lab.......ever.

Your rigid approach is the evidence of impracticality in Muslim thought today. Try dissecting a leech with any science student (girl) ...and then tell me if you were successful in "keeping your gaze lower" while performing the dissection and discussing your lab tasks with your partner..What about comparing the results and analyzing the results?...This is the simplest of examples I'm giving you....Don't even think of dissecting pig , frog etc (Forget about operating on human body...) ...

Now please , keep it real and practical.....bye

You must be kidding me. I've spent countless hours in the lab...most of the time you're so focused on the project, you don't have time to look at anyone. Setting up, running tests, doing calculations, taking notes. Since when does that require looking at your partner? Remember, accidental glances are forgiven. But not trying to lower your gaze out of laziness is wrong.