[GrileVege]

Salaamu alaiykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu
I know that it is haraam to shave the beard and trim it beyond a fist length. However, according to the scholars of saudi on alifta.com they say that even trimming the beard to a fist length is not good and it should be allowed to grow as long as it can as the prophet Muhammad PBUH beard was up to his chest (which I know most hanafis would be against). But nevertheless I sport that opinion because the scholars used very good proof. Anyways, before this turns into a madhab vs salafi fiqh war (which is stupid because I don't even call myself salafi), I want to know whether, according to the same opinion of the scholars of Saudi, that I can atleast trim those parts that are uneven or stick out. I don't mind keeping a beard with sticking out bits if that is the best way, but what is reeeaaaallly bugging me is when one person says don't trim that because it's not allowed, and another person says to trim it because it's sunnah!?!? How can that be accepted as a difference in opinion? Something being a sunnah to something being disliked? Does anyone know?
Jazakallahu khaiyrun

[LoohornePharp]

The beard has to be a minimum of a fist length on each side so it should be a fist length evenly.

As for the Saudis, then bring up the narration about Ibn Umar . They are probably aware of it and will say something like, "This was the practice of Ibn Umar alone and is not proven from Rasoolullah ". To that, ask them who knows the sunnah better: these scholars or Ibn Umar ?

[GrileVege]

The beard has to be a minimum of a fist length on each side so it should be a fist length evenly.

As for the Saudis, then bring up the narration about Ibn Umar . They are probably aware of it and will say something like, "This was the practice of Ibn Umar alone and is not proven from Rasoolullah ". To that, ask them who knows the sunnah better: these scholars or Ibn Umar ?

Dude, scholars are not like that. They don't avoid any narration. They take this quote of ibn 'Umar as a practice only at the time of hajj and 'umra and thus it is permissibile at these times only. They don't say he was wrong, that's a huge misconception. They say that people have misunderstood his practice. Do you possibly have knowledge on my other question though about straightening the beard?

[Qeiafib]

Dude, scholars are not like that. They don't avoid any narration. They take this quote of ibn 'Umar as a practice only at the time of hajj and 'umra and thus it is permissibile at these times only. They don't say he was wrong, that's a huge misconception. They say that people have misunderstood his practice. Do you possibly have knowledge on my other question though about straightening the beard?

Actually, they do say that it was only the ijtihad of ibn Umar :

Shaykh Ibn Baaz said: Whoever quotes the action of Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) to show that he used to cut whatever of his beard was longer than the “handful” during Hajj cannot use this as evidence, because this is ijtihaad on the part of Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him), and proof is to be found in reports (from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)), not from ijtihaad. The scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) clearly stated that the reports from the Sahaabah and those who came after them that are proven to be sound are what constitute evidence and proof, and they take precedence over any opinion if it goes against the Sunnah.

Fataawa wa Maqaalaat al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 8/370. The above was taken from the IslamQA site.

You can see from this how one might infer that they think the practice of ibn Umar "goes against the Sunnah".

[GrileVege]

Actually, they do say that it was only the ijtihad of ibn Umar :



The above was taken from the IslamQA site.

You can see from this how one might infer that they think the practice of ibn Umar "goes against the Sunnah".

*face-palm* Great. This is exactly what I was saying when I said "before this turns into a salafi-madhab war, when I don't even call myself salafi". Besides, who said that the saudi scholars are represented by the site IslamQA? I was talking about the authentic site alifta.net. They said: "Furthermore, Ibn `Umar did not do such trimming constantly; rather, he used to trim his beard when ending the state of Ihram (ceremonial state for Hajj and `Umrah)."

http://www.alifta.net/Fatawa/Fatwapr...D=7&sectionid=

Anyways, that's not the point here. The point is that to respect my manhaj and to let me know whether the same manhaj would allow trimming of beard parts that stick out.

[ticskebasse]

I thought there is ikhtilaf on this: i.e. some hanafis consider fist-length to be sunnah and others consider letting it grow beyond to be the sunnah but fist-length is a permitted amount to trim.

I have observed a number of great (Deobandi) Shaykhs with a very long beard (beyond fist easily)

[GrileVege]

I thought there is ikhtilaf on this: i.e. some hanafis consider fist-length to be sunnah and others consider letting it grow beyond to be the sunnah but fist-length is a permitted amount to trim.

I have observed a number of great (Deobandi) Shaykhs with a very long beard (beyond fist easily)

I don't mind differences in opinion (such as it is best to leave it grow and it is sunnah but you CAN trim it to fist length if you want to) but the worrying part is when one person says: "This is sunnah" and another person says "No it is not, this is sunnah". I don't like that...

[Qeiafib]

*face-palm* Great. This is exactly what I was saying when I said "before this turns into a salafi-madhab war, when I don't even call myself salafi". Besides, who said that the saudi scholars are represented by the site IslamQA? I was talking about the authentic site alifta.net. They said: "Furthermore, Ibn `Umar did not do such trimming constantly; rather, he used to trim his beard when ending the state of Ihram (ceremonial state for Hajj and `Umrah)."

http://www.alifta.net/Fatawa/Fatwapr...ookID=7§ionid=

Anyways, that's not the point here. The point is that to respect my manhaj and to let me know whether the same manhaj would allow trimming of beard parts that stick out.

I wasn't starting a war. I was just pointing something out you might have missed while "correcting" the other brother. The IslamQA site quotes bin Baz

Here is the full paragraph which you quoted from:

As for what is reported from Ibn `Umar (may Allah be pleased with them both) that he used to trim the sides and the length of beard, this does not support trimming the beard, although it is authentically reported about him. The evidence here is the Prophet's statement which indicated the obligation of letting the beard grow and not trimming it whether by cutting it off or shortening it. Muslims have agreed that the statement of the Prophet (peace be upon him) should not be opposed by any person's opinions or acts. This is a sound rule which has great benefit to whoever acts according to it. Furthermore, Ibn `Umar did not do such trimming constantly; rather, he used to trim his beard when ending the state of Ihram (ceremonial state for Hajj and `Umrah). So they are saying the same thing. The sentence you quoted was just an afterthought to the entire piece. Selective quoting is not very helpful.

Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread. You seem to feel that the website is authentic, so I guess according to your minhaj you can't trim anything from the beard. Although what exactly your mahaj is is not really clear, since your profile says Hanafi but you are taking a fatwa from a Saudi website which is using different usool.

I never heard of anyone saying that only trimming the beard to fist-length is sunnah, and that not trimming at all is not a sunnah.

[Esmeralfaf]

The Mu´tamad in the school of the Shafi´is is that it is makruh to take anything from the beard, except for Hajj and Umrah where one would be permitted to trim it to one fist length, following the actions of ´Abdallah ibn ´Umar (radiya'Allahu ´anhu) and others.

wassalam

[Madjostok]

i dont think the hanafis have any problem with those who wish to not trim their beard :s

also the not trimming beard is a difference of opinion within salafis too, i have heard some of them say that you can trim it as short as you want...only completely shaving it is haraam

you could use straightners but make sure you use heat protection spray on it beforehand as constant straightening can weaken hair

wallahu alam

[GrileVege]

i dont think the hanafis have any problem with those who wish to not trim their beard :s

also the not trimming beard is a difference of opinion within salafis too, i have heard some of them say that you can trim it as short as you want...only completely shaving it is haraam

you could use straightners but make sure you use heat protection spray on it beforehand as constant straightening can weaken hair

wallahu alam

Why don't someone just oil their beard which is sunnah? One wants reward for making it look good right? Anyways (to the other answerer), I put hanafi because that is what I was told my madhab is (and I don't know why it was even neccassary to state your madhab when coming to this site) . I have no problem taking any fatwa from Imam Abu Hanifah and other Imams but I only call myself muslim rather than hanafi.

[GrileVege]

Assalamu alaykum



Our feeling is that once we take fatwa from other Imams, we are rejecting Imam Abu Haneefa's knowledge of sunnah.

Dude, you have to understand that Imam Abu Haneefa is among the imams we take fatwa on. It is not like a separate fountain of knowledge. His knowledge is among the contributions towards the central authentic and permissible fountain of knowledge, the ijma' of the scholars.

[GrileVege]

That is what we believe, Imam Abu Haneefa got the knowledge from central authentic and permissible fountain of knowledge, they why reject that.

You got it twisted akhi. I said that his knowledge contributes towards the central authentic and permissible fountain of knowledge. But his contribution towards that fountain is not alone enough for me at least as the key word here is ijma', which is the fountain all together. I need to see what other scholars have said too, while keeping Imam Abu Haneefa's opinion a credible statement at the same time, although not accepting it as of yet. May Allah reward all the scholars as they have struggled so hard to ensure that our Islam is easy for us and indeed we pay them back with a spit by insulting them. What shame we have?

[hygtfrdes]

Salaamu alaiykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu
I know that it is haraam to shave the beard and trim it beyond a fist length. However, according to the scholars of saudi on alifta.com they say that even trimming the beard to a fist length is not good and it should be allowed to grow as long as it can as the prophet Muhammad PBUH beard was up to his chest (which I know most hanafis would be against). But nevertheless I sport that opinion because the scholars used very good proof. Anyways, before this turns into a madhab vs salafi fiqh war (which is stupid because I don't even call myself salafi), I want to know whether, according to the same opinion of the scholars of Saudi, that I can atleast trim those parts that are uneven or stick out. I don't mind keeping a beard with sticking out bits if that is the best way, but what is reeeaaaallly bugging me is when one person says don't trim that because it's not allowed, and another person says to trim it because it's sunnah!?!? How can that be accepted as a difference in opinion? Something being a sunnah to something being disliked? Does anyone know?
Jazakallahu khaiyrun

The difference lies in the principles underlying each school.
The Hanafis base their opinion on the practice of 'Abdillah ibn 'Umar, some other Sahaba and the Salaf, all of whom used to allow trimming the beard.
So keeping the beard is wajib according to most ulama. Trimming it to one fist length is allowed in the Hanafi school. It is disliked in the Salafi school becase they do not accept the practice of Ibn 'Umar as Hujjah. Incidentally, the scholar whom the Salafis count as their greatest, Shaykh Nasir al Albani is on record as saying that the Sunna is one fistful and longer than that is bid'ah. Such differences are common and the root of the differences is not easily visible to the 'awaam which is why they should not enter into such debates without a thorough grounding in the "Usul al Fiqh.

[hygtfrdes]

The fact that the Salaf used to allow to take from the beard:

Ibn Abee Shaybah narrates in his mussannaf, (5/225-226):

Ghundar narrated to us, from Shu'bah, from Mansoor who said, "I heard Ataa ibn Abee Rabaah (the taabi'ee) saying, 'They used to like to leave the beard except in Hajj or Umrah, and Ibraaheem used to take from the sides of his beard.'"

And he narrates, 'Aa'idh ibn Habeeb narrated to us, from Ash'ath, from al-Hasan (i.e., al-Basree) who said, "They used to allow for what was in excess of what is gripped by the hand of the beard, that it be taken from."

And he narrates, Aboo Aamir al-Aqdee narrated to us, from Aflah who said, al-Qaasim (the taabi'ee) when he shaved his head would take from his beard and moustache."

And he narrates, Alee ibn Haashim and Wakee narrtaed to us, from Ibn Abee Laylaa, from Naafi, from Ibn Umar, "That he used to take what was above a hands grip." Wakee said, "What was in excess of a hands-grip."

And he narrates, Wakee narrated to us, from Aboo Hilaal who said, "I asked al-Hasan (i.e., al-Basree) and Ibn Seereen who both said, "There is no harm for you to take from the length of your beard."

And he narrates, Wakee narrated to us, from Sufyaan, from Mansoor, from Ibraaheem (an-Nakha'ee) who said, "They used to take something from and tidy their beards and take from the sides."

[hygtfrdes]

Finally the Hanafi correction of the misconception regarding the length of the beard:
Some individuals acknowledge that it is wajib to keep a beard, but then argue that there is no mention of any specific length in the hadith. Hence, if one has a bit of hair on his face - irrespective of the length - it would be permissible, because this is also called a beard.

They also argue that to keep a beard up to a fist's length is the act of a Sahaabi [- Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Umar - radhiallaahu anhu - and Sayyiduna Abu Hurayra - Radhiallaahu anhu] and it is not the command of Rasulullah . Hence, the one who chooses not to do so will not be contravening any command of Rasulullah .

This is a result of a lack of understanding of the actual wording of the hadith. First, in the hadith we have quoted, Rasulullah [sallallahu alayhi wasallam] has commanded us to lengthen the beard and not just to 'keep' a beard. The difference between the two is quite clear. If one just 'keeps' a shortened beard, he will not be fulfilling the command of Rasulullah .

Therefore, the one who intentionally keeps a trimmed beard will not be fulfilling the command of lengthening the beard. The lengthening is wajib, not just having any sort of a beard.

Second, the hadith is general and does not specify any length of the beard. The words, 'u'ful lluhaa / waffiroo-lluhaa' in the hadith command us to lengthen the beards, which will (literally) mean, 'it is wajib to let the beard grow' up to whatever length it reaches. If we did not have the narration of Nafi' that Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Umar, Radi-Allahu anhu, did trim his beard, then this would have been the case.

However, the narrator himself (Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Umar and Sayyiduna Abu Hurayra - radhiallaahu anhuma) as well as other Tabi'een (Radhiallaahu Anhum) did trim their beards beyond one fist's length, the Ulama have deduced that this means that the wujoob (obligation) of lengthening is only up to a fist's length. Neither can we say that it is not permissible to trim it at all - resulting in the accusation of the Sahaba (Radhiallaahu Anhum) of contradicting the explicit command of Rasulullah and especially the narrator, (Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Umar and sayyiduna Abu Huraira - Radhiallaahu Anhuma). Nor can one claim the permissibility of trimming it to leave less than a fist's length, for there is no proof for this in the Shari'ah.

Hence, if a person is to trim his beard beyond a fist's length it would be permissible and if he leaves shorter than a fist's length, he will be going against an act which is wajib and this is not permissible, and if he chooses not to trim it at all, this will also be permissible.

The practice of the Sahabi [radhiallaahu anhu] here is used for 'permissibility' of cutting up to a fist's length, because - being the narrator - this is what he understood to be the intended meaning of Rasulullah . In other words, the Sahabi [radhiallaahu anhu] had understood that the command of Rasulullah of lengthening the beard only applies up to a fist's length and not more. That is why they (the Sahaba concerned - Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Umar and Sayyiduna Abu Hurayra – radhiallaahu anhuma) used to trim what was in excess of one fist. It is not wajib to follow them in doing so. What is wajib in this situation is to let it grow, and the action of the Sahabi is used only to explain that wajib and restrict going against that.

[Esmeralfaf]

Abu Tamim,

Some scholars would argue that the Hadith implies one should keep a beard (whether wajib or mandub, let us leave that), and that:

1) Actions of Sahaba are not hujjah, and this is technically, more or less, a principle in Shafi´i Usul.

2) If it is to be taken as a hujjah (or at the very least at least a source of guidance), a Sahabi trimming his beard would only indicate that it is not impermissible to do so, and the specific length he trimmed it down to would not necessitate it being a defined limit as such, as there is no text expressing such. This is why you will find an Imam of the Shafi´i school like Al-Ghazali (rah) saying that keeping a short beard fulfills the Sunah of the beard.

We may agree or disagree.

wa'Allahu a´lam.

[oxinsnepe]

This is why you will find an Imam of the Shafi´i school like Al-Ghazali (rah) saying that keeping a short beard fulfills the Sunah of the beard.

Can you bring the relevant quote of Ghazali where a "short" beard of a millimeter fulfills the sunnah?

[GrileVege]

Salaamu alaiykum
Are people still going to deny that this is not turning into a madhab-salafi debate? And on top of that, I feel as if I am the one who is actively engaging in it and causing it to grow? Abu Tamim, I was actually trying to look for the part where you would hopefully say: "And keeping the beard straight by cutting the sticking out parts is/ is not a sunnah" but I guess I was wrong. Please, if you want to turn this thread into a debate on fiqh and usool (which I have no idea what they even are let alone can speak on them, so please don't force me to involve myself - I just try and remain on a simple understanding, which is following the salaf-e-salih (now don't make that another source of debate)) then first answer whether it is allowed or not to straighten it - does it fall under keeping oneself look good according to sunnah, or not letting it grow?

[CHEAPSOFTOEMONLINE]

I put hanafi because that is what I was told my madhab is (and I don't know why it was even neccassary to state your madhab when coming to this site) .

Brother, you can go actually to "Settings" (top left next to "Log Out") > "Edit Profile" (in left menu) and change your madhab to "None" or "Don't Know" if you like, it is not imposed by SF for everyone to be "Hanafi" or choose a madhab.