[ethigSmimbine]

As a practicing Muslimah I follow the teaching of the Quran. I have worked in many environments where my fellow workers have been gay. Alhumdulilah when in a situation where, i have been asked about my view on gay people, i have never hesitated to say that I believe it to be an unnatural practice and and something Allah condemns.

My response even makes straight people feel uncomfortable, but I believe in saying what I believe in without resorting to insulting

My point was exactly what you said. Even if you do not intend to you will
insult or injure gay people because you said they are not natural to be .... there is no safe ground here .
You do not need to use abusing language to insult or injure people.

Its like telling people you don't think they should exist .
Should have made the post more clear , not expect people to read between the lines.

[Ceriopal]

My point was exactly what you said. Even if your not intend to you will insult or injure gay people because you said they are not natural to be .... there is no safe ground here .

It's exactly like someone saying "I think Islam is a religion of terrorism, and is unnatural and detrimental to our society. It is something that shouldn't be allowed to spread and Muslims should be 'cured'". But God forbid someone say that lest they be classed Islamophobe. What difference does it make whether two men or women choose to get married? That affects most of us in no way, shape or form.

[Cheaperisdeeper]

It's exactly like someone saying "I think Islam is a religion of terrorism, and is unnatural and detrimental to our society. It is something that shouldn't be allowed to spread and Muslims should be 'cured'". But God forbid someone say that lest they be classed Islamophobe. What difference does it make whether two men or women choose to get married? That affects most of us in no way, shape or form.

If people say it is natural to be 'GAY', then why don't they start reproducing? We would like to witness a pregnant Man.

[ethigSmimbine]

It's exactly like someone saying "I think Islam is a religion of terrorism, and is unnatural and detrimental to our society. It is something that shouldn't be allowed to spread and Muslims should be 'cured'". But God forbid someone say that lest they be classed Islamophobe. What difference does it make whether two men or women choose to get married? That affects most of us in no way, shape or form.

I think you better do Astaghfir .
This was my point you made apparent in action.
You just said something in public that goes against your beliefs . So whats the point of having those beliefs ?

[Vezazvqw]

Its like telling people you don't think they should exist .
Should have made the post more clear , not expect people to read between the lines.[/QUOTE]

I am not making the same point as you, even if I for one moment I thought of this without any affiliation to my Deen, I would still consider this an unnatural practice.
However The insult and injury for me would only take place if I started denying
gay people their right to live and breathe and began acting out in a way that either physically injured, them or denied
them, the right to receive a service, get an education, get married, buy a property together, apply for a job, adopt children etc and as far as I know gay people are able to do all of this.

The preacher had a right to state what he believed in and he should not have been condemned for this, because these are violations under The human Rights Act 1998 Freedom of thought, conscience and religion (article 9) Freedom of expression
(article 10)

[Vezazvqw]

My point was exactly what you said. Even if you do not intend to you will
insult or injure gay people because you said they are not natural to be .... there is no safe ground here .
You do not need to use abusing language to insult or injure people.

Its like telling people you don't think they should exist .
Should have made the post more clear , not expect people to read between the lines.

I am not making the same point as you, even if I for one moment I thought of this without any affiliation to my Deen, I would still consider this an unnatural practice.
However The insult and injury for me would only take place if I started denying
gay people their right to live and breathe and began acting out in a way that either physically injured, them or denied
them, the right to receive a service, get an education, get married, buy a property together, apply for a job, adopt children etc and as far as I know gay people are able to do all of this.

The preacher had a right to state what he believed in and he should not have been condemned for this, because these are violations under The human Rights Act 1998 Freedom of thought, conscience and religion (article 9) Freedom of expression
(article 10)

[ethigSmimbine]

I am not making the same point as you, even if I for one moment I thought of this without any affiliation to my Deen, I would still consider this an unnatural practice.
However The insult and injury for me would only take place if I started denying
gay people their right to live and breathe and began acting out in a way that either physically injured, them or denied
them, the right to receive a service, get an education, get married, buy a property together, apply for a job, adopt children etc and as far as I know gay people are able to do all of this.

The preacher had a right to state what he believed in and he should not have been condemned for this, because these are violations under The human Rights Act 1998 Freedom of thought, conscience and religion (article 9) Freedom of expression
(article 10)

That is just skipping few chapters and not just reading between the lines .
That was never in my mind the definition of Insult and Injury .

[Vezazvqw]

That is just skipping few chapters and not just reading between the lines .
That was never in my mind the definition of Insult and Injury .

I have made my point.

[kertUtire]

The issue of "gayness being unnatural" has to be accurately supported by biology and reasoning.

First, the homosexual movement have diabolically hijacked scientific research into 'homosexuality' to serve their political and ideological aims- and liberals and feminists ahve joined forces with them.
Gay researchers have attempted to advance studies which suggest homosexuality is a natural biological occurence. They have examined brains to find a difference, genes, hormones, etc. They identified various male animals who seem to favor male companionship over female and they call them 'gay' animals. They also identified certain primates engage sexual conduct towards each other.

The real issue is about conduct- this is what Islam addresses: the conduct of humans.
For example: "Suicide is unnatural" in that all the systems of the body function for survival. We experience pain because the neurological system is designed so humans are able to avoid or pay close attention to a stimilus. Even the cardio respiratory functions outside of human consciousness and freewill.

"Homosexual conduct is unnatural like suicide is unnatural."

The body is designed to survive and reproduce and its physiology and anatomy have known purposes of which both suicide and homosexual conduct violate. This violation causes the conscience, the nafs, to experience deep remorse to the point that many who engage in the conduct commit suicide.

It should be no surprise that gay propaganda wants to suppress all opposition in what they claim is to end the deep remorse, anguish, and spiritual suffering gays go through when they first engage in that conduct. They want to do away with human conscience, remorse.



Harrow Muslim Reform,
You cited the UN human rights charter as legal permission to speak against gay propaganda. The legal foundation of the UN human rights charter is all Western law, Western treaties, and Western culture. It is fundamentally in opposition to Islam and Shariah.

If you wanted to point out to some disbeliever that the UN is supposed to protect 'free speech', they can turn around and say the UN human rights charter protects gay sex, as well as adultery and all sex outside of marriage. It is is NO WIN argument, as they made the UN charter, and they can change it to fit whatever new deviancy they embrace.



Both result in conduct inconsistent with human biology as a result of human freewill- not prescribed by biology as gay propaganda would have one assume.

Most importantly, The Shariah, the address of the Rabb regarding Man's conduct, is what we Muslims must uphold and defend even if the disbelievers despise it.

[ethigSmimbine]

I have made my point.

[kertUtire]

There was a recent case in USA Rutgers University wherein an Indian student used his webcam to video his male roommate engage in gay sex with some other male. He then harassed the roommate with the video to the point that the roommate committed suicide. A court recently found the Indian student guilty of several crimes which could put him in prison for up to 10 years- the Indian student was found guilty as if he committed manslaughter.

Gays also claim 30% of teen suicides are comitted by gay teens attempting to come to terms with their identity- but this claim is bogus. Nonetheless, they assert that by making gayness more acceptable, teens and young people will be less inclined to commit suicide. It's as if one says to do away with the remorse and guilt of committing adultery, society should do away with marriage.

[Ceriopal]

I think you better do Astaghfir .
This was my point you made apparent in action.
You just said something in public that goes against your beliefs . So whats the point of having those beliefs ?

I am not Muslim.

If people say it is natural to be 'GAY', then why don't they start reproducing? We would like to witness a pregnant Man.

First: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-3-babies.html

Second: People say it's natural to be gay because animals also do it (Natural = from nature). See this and this. There are over 1500 documented cases of animals engaging in homosexual behavior.

[Vezazvqw]

Harrow Muslim Reform,
You cited the UN human rights charter as legal permission to speak against gay propaganda. The legal foundation of the UN human rights charter is all Western law, Western treaties, and Western culture. It is fundamentally in opposition to Islam and Shariah.

If you wanted to point out to some disbeliever that the UN is supposed to protect 'free speech', they can turn around and say the UN human rights charter protects gay sex, as well as adultery and all sex outside of marriage. It is is NO WIN argument, as they made the UN charter, and they can change it to fit whatever new deviancy they embrace.



Both result in conduct inconsistent with human biology as a result of human freewill- not prescribed by biology as gay propaganda would have one assume.

Most importantly, The Shariah, the address of the Rabb regarding Man's conduct, is what we Muslims must uphold and defend even if the disbelievers despise it.

Fair point Brother

[ScosyGissiok]

أعوذ بالله من الشيطان الرجيم
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم


A`ūdhu billāhi min ash-shaitāni r-rajīm
b-ismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm



And Allah (SWT) knows best. And Allah (SWT) is the Most Merciful, All-Knowing and Most Just.

I was going to remain quiet as this is an upsetting thread but I feel a responsibility to step in to say this:

Who are we to judge those whose lives (nurture) and creation (nature) we know nothing about? Who are we to judge non-Muslim communities when practices exist within our own communities? Which one of us is running to the aide of all the young girls and boys who are forced into the sex industry in our own countries?

And Allah (SWT) knows best.

Who are we to judge the nature of a person? Who are we to judge their nurture? What do we know about our own condition let alone the conditions of others? Nothing.

Judge yourselves before you jump on others.

And Allah (SWT) knows best, the Most Merciful, Most Compassionate and Most Just.

[tweriaroats]

I am not Muslim.




First: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-3-babies.html

Second: People say it's natural to be gay because animals also do it (Natural = from nature). See this and this. There are over 1500 documented cases of animals engaging in homosexual behavior.

The fact that a transgender had a baby is not the same as saying a homosexual man had a baby

Secondly, you do realise some animals commit what would be considered incest right? So I'm guessing that's natural too, maybe you can campaign for it to be legalised

[LoohornePharp]

First: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-3-babies.html

Second: People say it's natural to be gay because animals also do it (Natural = from nature). See this and this. There are over 1500 documented cases of animals engaging in homosexual behavior.

If a person still has female genitalia as well as female genes, that person is still a female, regardless of mastectomies or hormonal changes.

Secondly, there are many "natural" acts found in the animal kingdom that would not be applicable to humans:
-rape
-incest
-cannibalism
-homosexuality (furthermore, many Western scientists conclude anything that shows some sort of camaraderie between males of a species instead of engaging in the same activity with females to be "homosexual")
-infanticide, matricide, patricide - killing one's blood relatives
-viricide after reproduction

The nature of man is completely different from animals. If homosexuality was a norm, you'd find many examples of accepted homosexuality in different historical tribes around the world. You'd also find inherent acceptance in various different communities around the world before globalization made it politically incorrect to be against homosexuality.

[Vezazvqw]

أعوذ بالله من الشيطان الرجيم
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم


A`ūdhu billāhi min ash-shaitāni r-rajīm
b-ismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm



And Allah (SWT) knows best. And Allah (SWT) is the Most Merciful, All-Knowing and Most Just.

I was going to remain quiet as this is an upsetting thread but I feel a responsibility to step in to say this:

Who are we to judge those whose lives (nurture) and creation (nature) we know nothing about? Who are we to judge non-Muslim communities when practices exist within our own communities? Which one of us is running to the aide of all the young girls and boys who are forced into the sex industry in our own countries?

And Allah (SWT) knows best.

Who are we to judge the nature of a person? Who are we to judge their nurture? What do we know about our own condition let alone the conditions of others? Nothing.

Judge yourselves before you jump on others.

And Allah (SWT) knows best, the Most Merciful, Most Compassionate and Most Just.

Sister You said who are we to judge, what is being judged here? we must abide by the laws of Allah (swt), if he has forbidden something then we can not go against this, especially if we are practicing muslims, yes there are gay people in our own community and we must help guide them, even though ALLAH (swt) in the past eradicated them for their illicit practices.

[ScosyGissiok]

Bacha bazi.

[LoohornePharp]

Bacha bazi.

This practice is un-Islamic and was obliterated when Afghanistan was under the control of the Taliban so to suggest that we remain quiet because some evil things happen within our own communities isn't conducive to the discussion. There are many other evils that happen in our own communities, are un-Islamic, and that happen under wraps. People do speak out against them but we cannot go into people's houses and stop them from indulging in these sins, whereas in the West, what should have been confined to one's privacy is instead flaunted for all to see and is forced upon others to approve of and to respect.

Witchcraft happens in our countries. Music concerts happen in our countries. Dance parties happen in our countries. Gambling and drinking happens in our countries. We all know the Islamic stance on these issues. Our ulama do speak out against these things in their countries and in their language. We just don't hear as much because we either do not know these ulama or don't understand the language. Also, these things don't happen at such a large scale as they do in Western countries, mostly due to the fact that there is a difference in moralities.

As for judging others - we are given a divine criterion in the shari'ah to live by. If a person is openly committing sins and trying to gain acceptance of these sins in the mainstream, we have every right to speak against this. If a person is born homosexual, Islam remains silent. If a person engages in sodomy and thus acts upon his homosexuality, then Islam is not silent. If a person goes beyond this and tries to legitimize these things - and our scholars remain quiet - then many of the Muslims would fall into the trap of thinking that such actions are legitimate in Islam. In fact, many Muslims in the West already hold such un-Islamic views when it comes to homosexuality.

[ScosyGissiok]

أعوذ بالله من الشيطان الرجيم
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

A`ūdhu billāhi min ash-shaitāni r-rajīm
b-ismi-llāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm



If the West were Muslim and were concerned about upholding Islamic morals there would be no problem. But that is not the case and it is not my point. Also, these issues have been discussed at length in other threads.

My point in bringing up the bacha bazi (which still exist, and not exactly underground either) as an example is that some men you see are boys who've been abused (those that are lucky enough to live that long). They may not know any other life than the horrors they've lived through (some are taken at a very young age). Some become (are made to be) addicted to drugs. Some feel such shame that they feel they aren't worthy of being anything but what they've being forced into. Most likely, these men (boys) would not tell us about their secret horror and we would take it upon ourselves to judge them based on what we assume is going on (homosexuality) and we would judge them harshly. Anyway, that was just an example. The point is that we have a lot of work to do with our own communities before we jump in and start criticizing non-Muslims whose views and laws are different.

We make our own choices on what to focus on and what to say.

May Allah (SWT) forgive me if I've erred in any way.



[I will not be responding to this thread any longer. ]