[DrJonson]

the reason is explained in the article br

it's just not to hurt hindu feelings so as to develop better relations [for dawah purposes] with them; the fatwa dont say they are not kaafirs; it just says avoid using this term in Islamic discourses as it tends to hurt hindu feelings for it is viewed by them as a verry negative/derogatory word

maybe this is the answer

[RenyBontes]

Asslamualikum,

Sorry I can't find the fatwa and I am sorry having had posted this query based on a news article which sounds authentic.

http://muslimsface.wordpress.com/201...-is-not-kafir/

However, having had read the entire thread I think all of us have understood that Deoband and all muslims consider Hindus as Kaafir however we must refrain from using the word "kaafir" in public and gatherings as the fatwa says.

Allah says that all his messengers were "Basheer and Nazeer". I have heard scholars comment that the word Basheer precedes the word Nazeer as a quality of all the prophets for they call upon the people initially with love and affection and then they become Nazeer.

So there is nothing wrong in this Fatwa and it again showcases the Hikmah of the scholars and the way they are making progress.

[VipInoLo]

Assalamu alaykum

The best Hikmah of dawah taught by Rasulullah SAS is "Bash'shiroo laa tunfiroo".

That doesn't mean you don't warn them of the reality of the hereafter, nor that they are indeed disbelievers...

Allah ordered Moses by saying this

And speak to him with gentle speech that perhaps he may be reminded or fear Allah and when he spoke to Firawn, he warned him of the punishment by saying:


Indeed, it has been revealed to us that the punishment will be upon whoever denies and turns away. And Allah addresses the Quraish as:

Are your disbelievers (O Quraish!) better than these [nations of Nuh (Noah), Lout (Lot), Salih (Saleh), and the people of Fir'aun (Pharaoh), etc., who were destroyed)? Or have you an immunity (against Our Torment) in the Divine Scriptures? So who is more wise at giving da'wah? You taking a hadith and applying it willy nilly, or Allah and his Messenger?

Yes hikmah must be used, but your idea of hikmah and the reality of what hikmah is, is two different things. You don't go around calling hindus or anyone else for that matter "kufaar" All day long, but that doesn't mean you do not warn them of their punishment if in fact they remain as Kuffaar...

In fact you can give them Bushra by saying what Allah says:

"Nay, (on the contrary), those who disbelieve, belie (Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and whatever he brought, i.e. this Quran and Islamic Monotheism, etc.).And Allah knows best what they gather (of good and bad deeds), So announce(Bashir) to them a painful torment."

[kertUtire]

Asslamualikum,

Sorry I can't find the fatwa and I am sorry having had posted this query based on a news article which sounds authentic.

http://muslimsface.wordpress.com/201...-is-not-kafir/

However, having had read the entire thread I think all of us have understood that Deoband and all muslims consider Hindus as Kaafir however we must refrain from using the word "kaafir" in public and gatherings as the fatwa says.

Allah says that all his messengers were "Basheer and Nazeer". I have heard scholars comment that the word Basheer precedes the word Nazeer as a quality of all the prophets for they call upon the people initially with love and affection and then they become Nazeer.

So there is nothing wrong in this Fatwa and it again showcases the Hikmah of the scholars and the way they are making progress.

Allah knows best, but it is NOT the place of a fatwa to command Muslims NOT to use a term which Allah (SWT) and His Messenger have used definitively.

I leave it to others to examine this, because I hope the best for the Deoband school bithnillah.

[kertUtire]

Assalamu alaykum



What brother Mohtashim is saying is use hikmah.

Here in India, the fanatic Hindu organisations are spreading venom against muslims. Literature is being distrubted saying that see Muslims call you Kaafir. And they quote the quran ayahs and say "this is what is is there in the hearts of muslims against you Hindus!". "They want to throw you out from their countries, they want to kill you" etc.

In this scenario what should the scholars here in India say. Is it "yes, you are kaafir and you deserve that". And the gap between the communities widens. Then whom should we give dawah to.

What are the long term objectives and the short term goals associated with them, for the Muslim community in India?
Seriously?

I had an close Indian friend from Madras who was deeply disturbed by what he saw as a nationwide campaign by Hindutva to push Muslims out of political influence, out of economic vitality, and ostracize them from mainstream culture except as how they complied with Hindutva supremacy. Riotous violence in a town by the RSS almost always included vandalism of Muslim businesses that competed with Hindus, such as a Muslim store on a strategic corner.

This has been ongoing for more than more than a decade, and provinces such as Gujarat have been dominated by Hindutva such that Muslims are made to submit to them.

So again, what are the objectives?
Survival? Increase schools? Increase numbers of converts a few individuals at a time in a nation of over 1 billion people?
Is it to defend the integrity of the deen and consolidate Muslim power in certain institutions?

And while an individual Dawah carrier may make concessions when talking to people to spare their emotions, this is an issue of style of presentation. But what is the role of a Muslim institution in a kufr society?

[LoloLibia]

I am not a scholar.

I have heard that the Arabic word Kafir can be used for a farmer because it literally means 'someone who covers up' and farmers cover up the seed when planting crops.

Covering up is a type of ignorance or lack of knowledge and awareness, we could say we (that is Muslims) have levels of ignorance and sometimes lose the awareness of Allah as the Only Power, Will and Strength. But ultimately we renew our eman with the testimony of the shahada.

People who are not Muslim have greater levels of ignorance than Muslims generally speaking, however some non Muslims may have a greater awareness of a God than some Muslims, though they are still classed as being 'kafir' by the shariah. Calling ignorant people kafir is counter productive, it sounds like a insult and is likely to put barriers up between people, so it is better not to use the word.

How do humans cover up the truth?

All of us are born in particular cultures and environments. Our personalities form and we pick up the cultural ways of our social environments, we develop cultural filters which make us believe our own truths....much of this is based on ignorance. So let us say we meet a Muslim when we are aged 20, who invites us to Islam, we may not hear what is being said because we are convinced that our way is right and Muslims are bad people who follow a violent religion. Muslims class non Muslims as not fully human and have a term for them. They refer to them as kafirs. A Muslim who is aware of this mindset would do well to appreciate this and adjust their message maybe refrain from using the word kafir until they have given knowledge (or removed the levels of ignorance).

[kertUtire]

I am not a scholar.

I have heard that the Arabic word Kafir can be used for a farmer because it literally means 'someone who covers up' and farmers cover up the seed when planting crops.

Covering up is a type of ignorance or lack of knowledge and awareness, we could say we (that is Muslims) have levels of ignorance and sometimes lose the awareness of Allah as the Only Power, Will and Strength. But ultimately we renew our eman with the testimony of the shahada.

People who are not Muslim have greater levels of ignorance than Muslims generally speaking, however some non Muslims may have a greater awareness of a God than some Muslims, though they are still classed as being 'kafir' by the shariah. Calling ignorant people kafir is counter productive, it sounds like a insult and is likely to put barriers up between people, so it is better not to use the word.

How do humans cover up the truth?

All of us are born in particular cultures and environments. Our personalities form and we pick up the cultural ways of our social environments, we develop cultural filters which make us believe our own truths....much of this is based on ignorance. So let us say we meet a Muslim when we are aged 20, who invites us to Islam, we may not hear what is being said because we are convinced that our way is right and Muslims are bad people who follow a violent religion. Muslims class non Muslims as not fully human and have a term for them. They refer to them as kafirs. A Muslim who is aware of this mindset would do well to appreciate this and adjust their message maybe refrain from using the word kafir until they have given knowledge (or removed the levels of ignorance).

Interesting points.

Brother, how much influence have Muslims had on India's media to date?
Very little? And if the media chooses to pidgeonhole and scapegoat Muslims as subhuman devils of the earth, what kind of contingency plans do Muslims have?

Is some temporary goodwill from secular Hindus able to sustain Muslim obligations and requirements, such as protection of Deen and family? For how long?


It may be a Hindu has greater insight into the human condition and shows more compassion and humanity to others than a poor illiterate Muslim farmer who abuses his family and commits crimes upon others. But why?

Why has a single Hindu of middle or upper class upbringing gained greater awareness than perhaps 10s of millions of Muslims, many of whom are suffering in poverty, illiteracy, economic and political servitude?

Is it because his humanist philosophies are championed by the government and the world powers, financed, protected by various source in India and abroad, while Muslim schools are plagued with underfunding, their philosophies are inconsistent and lacking, and Muslim leaders are continually accomodationists, making concessions, altering aspects of Islam, being reactionary and unaware?

Is humanism superior to modern Islamic thought in India?

Brothers, India is increasingly an encroaching enemy of the Muslim world. America intends to empower India over all of Asia as indicated in its military pacts and development plans. (This also is in line with Hindutva fantasies of re-erecting a Hindu military empire). India's funding of the Northern Alliance and backing of the Karzai govt has positioned India to gain regional influence in Afghanistan to the exclusion of Pakistan. This is done with the intent of preserving India's access to the Central Asian natural resources to fund its nuclear and miltiary development with America's guidance.
To grant India that access, through Pakistan no less, is to empower India to be a regional power over Arabia and Asia.

India's export of human resources throughout Arabia serves to position millions of secular and nationalist oriented Indians throughout the Muslim world, with countless operatives building connections, gaining access to positions and restricting them for Hindus exclusively. I have personally seen and many will attest, Hindus get in a management position and try to force out all others to be replaced with Hindus, or subordinate secular Indian Muslims. And that's another thing, Indian nationalism holds greater weight to many Indian Muslims that Islamic identity so that they prefer to associate with Hindus who might have influence in their community than Muslims.


If India has designs to dominate nearby Muslim countries like they already dominate Bangledesh and Sri Lanka, what role should Muslims of India play in that?

[elektikakass]

brother Usama2 I completely get your point. The hindus are gaining control of many muslim countries and once they reach certain positions they only start hiring hindus. Who can we blame for this? I would start with blaming certain countries who purposely hire kuffar over Muslims. Look at a country close to you...they filled up the whole place full of philipinos, hindus, nepalese, westerners etc. With regards to your other assumptions brother Usama2 let me tell you that our Indian muslim brothers are not as nationalist as the arabs. Actually our Indian brothers would rather unite with their fellow muslim brothers than hindus but if their arab brothers keep questioning their islam and looking down on them can you blame them for changing their views. With regards to your views of Indian Muslims it is mostly based on the keralites who don't really represent Indian Muslims very well as they are more secular in many ways. I was shocked to see the keralite brothers and I don't think I've seen many of them with beards which is strange for Indian Muslims as many do sport beards (though this is still a very small minority but way more than keralites and arabs etc).