[sniskelsowwef]

Salam

Now in the west bribing is almost unheard of and this kind of system just doesn't exist, but many of us have links to muslim countries or atleast a parent country where corruption is rife and a police constable will openly stop you for a wrongdoing you and then go on to ask for a bribe.

They really catch you out at the airport when they ask for x amount to let you luggage pass unchecked or if you're bringing a few extra CDs with you (nasheeds of course)

Alot of the time the bribe asking is not affected by how religious an officer seems or is.

So what does Islam say about corruption such as bribe giving/taking.

Jazakallah

[gennick]

As far as I know:

Bribery is a major sin, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “May the curse of Allaah be upon the one who pays a bribe and the one who takes it.”

Narrated by Ibn Maajah (2313); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah.

[DghtRdc]

it's a no no.

[sniskelsowwef]

it's a no no.

just a no no, or a BIG no no?

[DghtRdc]

Big no no!

[HotboTgameR]

It is sad, isn't it, that this is so common place in some Muslim countries and among Muslims themselves.

Interest, bribes...

There are other common practices like... inflating the price goods when tourists/non-locals are around, or having a price for tourists and a price for locals. I don't know if this is a sin but to me this is unethical.

What about 'tips'? To me tipping is also unethical. If there is a fair price for a service, it should be clearly stated - end of story. The real price of a service (many include serving goods) now is not simply a figure, it is figure + tax + tip (+shipping and handling)

[Andoror]

Salam

Now in the west bribing is almost unheard of and this kind of system just doesn't exist,

it doesn't exist..., untill one gets to the upper echelons of society; big business and the governments byword is 'bribes' these days; bribery is what glues their marriage together. with the former being the hubby ofcourse! :

http://www.theperspective.org/2009/0623200902.html

[sniskelsowwef]

it doesn't exist..., untill one gets to the upper echelons of society; big business and the governments byword is 'bribes' these days; bribery is what glues their marriage together. with the former being the hubby ofcourse! :

http://www.theperspective.org/2009/0623200902.html

It's not at any level which might affect the "normal" public.

If I apply for a top university, entry based on merit so I DON'T pay bribe in Uk- in Pakistan pay appropriate bribe to the principle or admission department (various people with their own cuts) to get the entry accepted
If I apply for a any Job: I DON't need to know anyone special in UK- in Pakistan I DO, maybe a "sifarish" of a minister/politician/officer etc...
If I get caught speeding, I pay £60 in fine plus points on license Uk- in Pakistan I pay a few hundred rupees bribe to get away
If I MURDER/RAPE someone in uk I feel the full force of the law in the UK (DNA etc.. hard to get away)-in Pakistan, pay a few lak (100,000) rupees to the appropriate party (not victim) as bribe and the appropriate officer will dismiss the case or not register it.

see what I mean, from top to bottom, corruption. Nothing to do with tips or P&P on purchases. Unless it's acceptable in Islam as service charge.

Can't speak for Arab countries but consider the last example, If someone murders someone all they have to do is give bribe to the chief police inspector of that area to get away scott free.

[HotboTgameR]

It's not at any level which might affect the "normal" public.

If I apply for a top university, entry based on merit so I DON'T pay bribe in Uk- in Pakistan pay appropriate bribe to the principle or admission department (various people with their own cuts) to get the entry accepted
If I apply for a any Job: I DON't need to know anyone special in UK- in Pakistan I DO, maybe a "sifarish" of a minister/politician/officer etc...
If I get caught speeding, I pay £60 in fine plus points on license Uk- in Pakistan I pay a few hundred rupees bribe to get away
If I MURDER/RAPE someone in uk I feel the full force of the law in the UK (DNA etc.. hard to get away)-in Pakistan, pay a few lak (100,000) rupees to the appropriate party (not victim) as bribe and the appropriate officer will dismiss the case or not register it.

see what I mean, from top to bottom, corruption. Nothing to do with tips or P&P on purchases. Unless it's acceptable in Islam as service charge.

Can't speak for Arab countries but consider the last example, If someone murders someone all they have to do is give bribe to the chief police inspector of that area to get away scott free.

Yes, it is time to throw open all of the gates of our communities and examine ourselves and our institutions thoroughly, exposing any ugliness and corruption in education, health, military, law... rooting out utterly un-Islamic, unethical, immoral and self-serving practices.

That bribe might be easy enough to give but it travels to someone's home in the form of bread and butter, and feeds innocent children.

Interest, bribes... hidden fees, tips on services, un-fair prices... what do they have in common: I think they're all unethical tools of making money at one level or another; some more devastating than others.

As for Western meritocracies... they don't exist. Bribes take on other forms. Only those persons cabable of playing the game to its fullest and fit the unspoken bill are able to move up with ease - the rest struggle; some make it, others don't.

[sniskelsowwef]

Maybe ethics don't matter, as long as the practice doesn't conflict with the islamic beliefs of the majority.

Everything's fair game, Unfortunately Islam doesn't seem to tackle this debilitating cancer widespread in islamic societies.

[HotboTgameR]

Maybe ethics don't matter, as long as the practice doesn't conflict with the islamic beliefs of the majority.

Everything's fair game, Unfortunately Islam doesn't seem to tackle this debilitating cancer widespread in islamic societies.

Are you sure about this?

Post #2: Bribery is a major sin, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “May the curse of Allaah be upon the one who pays a bribe and the one who takes it.”

Narrated by Ibn Maajah (2313); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah. Or did you mean, we Muslims aren't doing enough to tackle it (in accordance with Islam)?

[sniskelsowwef]

Are you sure about this?

Post #2:

Or did you mean, we Muslims aren't doing enough to tackle it (in accordance with Islam)?

It is apparent to me that the word "bribe" could have various meaning, and i'm not too sure of the translation that has been presented i.e. what is the definition of the bribe that is mentioned in the hadith. So this hadith I can't accept without knowing this. Translations could be misleading.

Now, I make my conclusions based on the lack of answers coming forth, and I can easily be confident in assuming that the muslim mindset about bribery is that it's fairplay and whoever can afford to do it, good for them.

i will do some research into this in the near future, but for now i'll have to leave it as is.

Also helpful is sister Acacia's outlook on this is her association of bribery with LEGAL hidden charges like restaurants charging tips/service charges and postage and packaging charges on purchases online.

two are quite distinct e.g. if you think a restuarant charged a service charge that was excessive then you can refuse to pay it (talking to the manager, they will porbs take it off), worse comes to worse, you don't go to that restaurant again. P&P-if you don't agree with it, don't buy,or else take it as part of the full cost.

Compare this to: Your son gets top grades in his college/school (i.e. national test for 18 years olds). Enough so he qualifies to get into Yale/Harvard/Oxford/Cambridge etc.. but on application the Principles/Deans of the universities ask for bribes. One uni says 20k, other says 25k one even says 50k, to accept the student. If this is the same as putting an extra few pounds on p&P then something got lost in translation

Jazakallah

[HotboTgameR]

I'm not equating the two. I'm simply saying they are both unethical (by the way, I don't think S&H charges are unethical -they are necessary - I just added it in to demonstrate the breakdown of a 'price'). But nevermind about tips now... they're detracting from your thread and I apologize for that.

I think you've raised a very important question that links to other threads and hopefully some knowledgeable sisters and brothers will contribute with sources on the issue. Otherwise, insha'Allah you can do some research on this in the near future and post here to let us know what you find too. I'll post anything I come across.

[infelconi]

I hope no one is justifying that taking bribes just because some situations are tough, becomes permissible.

It is a grave sin. Imam adh-Dhahabi includes giving and accepting bribes as one of the major sins, in his Kitab al-Kaba'ir.

[HotboTgameR]

Brother, this might help:

[Source: Ask Imam Fatwa #19694 from South Africa]

===

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

As-salāmu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuh.

Shari’ah emphasizes on being honest, fair and truthful. Dishonesty and lies are both prohibited and resented in Shari’ah and they have also been designated as the features of hypocrisy.

Nabi sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa sallam enumerated the signs of a hypocrite;

" آيَةُ المُنَافِقِ ثَلاَثٌ: إِذَا حَدَّثَ كَذَبَ، وَإِذَا وَعَدَ أَخْلَفَ، وَإِذَا اؤْتُمِنَ خَانَ "

“The signs of a hypocrite are three; when he speaks he lies, when he makes a promise he breaches the promise, when he is entrusted he deceives.” Bukhari 1/16 (دار طوق النجاة)

Bribery is defined as an offering in lieu of an illicit advantage and has been expressly prohibited in Shariah.[1] Bribery is a seed by means of which society is corrupted. Where bribery is prevalent in a people one sees the effects of lawlessness. A society bereft of law and order is also bereft of stability. All of these factors would leave the inhabitants of such a society full of insecurity. Shari’ah in its absolute wisdom and foresight has afforded us divine instruction in order to protect ourselves from this destructive crime of society.

One Hadith of Nabi sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa sallam mentions;

لَعَنَ رَسُولُ اللهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ الرَّاشِيَ وَالمُرْتَشِيَ

“The Messenger of Allah sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa sallam cursed the one who offers a bribe and accepts a bribe.” Tirmizi 3/15 (دار الغرب الإسلامي)

There are many Ahadith which warn against giving and taking bribery. We as followers of the pure and pristine religion of Islam should feel a sense of appreciation that we have been guided in all realms of our lives. This is so that we not only secure our Hereafter but simultaneously protect ourselves in this worldly life from the different destructive consequences of sins.

Bribery is clearly prohibited. However where one is a victim of oppression or is pressed to make a rightful claim and resorts to bribery as a last resort to preserve his right he is excused.[2][3]

And Allah Ta’āla Knows Best
Mawlana Ali bin Cassim
Student Darul Iftaa
Los Angeles, CA (USA)


Checked and Approved by,
Mufti Ebrahim Desai.
www.daruliftaa.net


[1]{ يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَأْكُلُوا أَمْوَالَكُمْ بَيْنَكُمْ بِالْبَاطِلِ إِلَّا أَنْ تَكُونَ تِجَارَةً عَنْ تَرَاضٍ مِنْكُمْ وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا أَنْفُسَكُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ بِكُمْ رَحِيمً} [النساء: 29]

التلخيص الحبير ط العلمية (3/ 19)

الرَّاشِي أَوْ الْمُرْتَشِي فِي النَّارِ

الدر المختار وحاشية ابن عابدين (رد المحتار) (5/ 362)

ثُمَّ الرِّشْوَةُ أَرْبَعَةُ أَقْسَامٍ: مِنْهَا مَا هُوَ حَرَامٌ عَلَى الْآخِذِ وَالْمُعْطِي

[2]الدر المختار وحاشية ابن عابدين (رد المحتار) (5/ 362)

الثَّالِثُ: أَخْذُ الْمَالِ لِيُسَوِّيَ أَمْرَهُ عِنْدَ السُّلْطَانِ دَفْعًا لِلضَّرَرِ أَوْ جَلْبًا لِلنَّفْعِ وَهُوَ حَرَامٌ عَلَى الْآخِذِ فَقَطْ

[3] فتاوى محمودية 18/456
===

These might also help:

Ask Imam Fatwa #19337 from India.

Transcripts for the Shariah Compliancy Campaign (under heading Activity 3: Lies)

[yasalaioqe]

ASWW
Ok let me ask this.
There is a bid and the highest bidder chosen is asked to pay something to the choosing panel. Then what?

[Kitdowstyhodo]

ASWW
Ok let me ask this.
There is a bid and the highest bidder chosen is asked to pay something to the choosing panel. Then what?

Thats commonly referred to as a "kick back" - it is a bribe and is illegal in the west - it falls under the banner of "Racketeering"