[Evdokia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKTvI...eature=related


He is Javed Ahmad Ghamidi. He is a learned Islamic scholar from Pakistan but now living in Malaysia. His interpretation is different than mainstream Islam practiced in Pakistan and hence he had to flee because Pakis are just too dumb to tolerate other views. Anyways , coming to the point ....Is parda (covering) of hairs compulsory in Islam? Javed Ahmed Ghamidi says that there is no such command in Islamic Shari'a. There are four aspects of parda of Muslim women

1- Have 'Hayah' in their eyes (that is ..don't search for and look at opposite sex with lust)
2- Should wear decent/clean dress and remain dignified/presentable.
3-Women should cover their chest too. They should wear loose clothings so that their chest does not become "prominent"
4-Women should not show-off their beauty and fashion to others.


So what you guys say? Many people in Pakistan don't respect him and say that he rejects hadith...He NEVER said that he reject hadiths...I kinda like this guy....

So where in Islam it is explicitly stated that women has to cover their hairs all the time?

A rational/dignified discussion will be appreciated...no abuse.

Thanks

Ask Mr Ghamidi what a khimar is and how it is supposed to be worn.

[GetsTan]

@ Auzer

1. Ayesha reported that Asma’ the daughter of Abu Bakr came to the Messenger of Allah while wearing thin clothing. He approached her and said: 'O Asma’! When a girl reaches the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain exposed except this and this. He pointed to the face and hands." [Abu Dawud]

2. I would rather take the opinion of classic scholars where Qur'aan is concerned.

3. Wearing pants is not sinful, as long as they aren't tight, revealing, or the sort men wear.

[royarnekara]

Assalam U Aalaikum

A copy and paste regarding "who is this Ghamadi"


We should refrain ourselves and instruct others to refrain from the writings, speeches and programs of Javed Ahmed Ghamdi who is the head of Al Mawrid Institute Lahore, Renaissance, Understanding Islam, Islamic Issues ets.

The gentleman and his affiliates are deviants to the extreme of rejecting the Nasoos of the Quran let alone the Hadith. Ghamdi has insulted the Ulemas of Deoband in his book burhan.

He rejects

1. Any form of Had (Prescribed Punishment),
2. Hadith to be direct
3. Nazool Eesa Alahi Salam and his Life (like Qadiyanis)
4. Had for an Apostate (Murtad)
5. Claims the 7 recitations of quran to be wrong (he is a close ally and aide of Daniel Pipes and Robert Spencer)
6. Music and Dancing of all sorts is permissible
7. Jihad against oppression is the only jihad allowed
8. The Shahadat of a man and woman are equal
9. There is no concept of Purdah (Hijab / Veil) in Islam,

Apart from this he is flying high these days by coming on TV brought by GEO Television. Mr. Ghamidi has special interest in Asma Jahangir and Qadinyanis much of whose ideology is reflected in his articles.

One of his student Khalid Zaheer is Munkareen Hadith Like Islahi, Farahi, Ghulam Ahmed Pervez, Allama Mashriqui. Khalid Zaheer is a professor at LUMS, Lahore (one can expect him to be in places like this). the following link gives some overview of Khalid Zaheer's thoughts

http://www.islamicissues.info/qa_question.php?qid=362

Ghamidi's books are Bayan, Mizan and Burhan, the last one being a mockery of Islam, Prophets, Companions, Imams, Muhaditheen and Mufasereens. They are seldomly available in Pakistan but are available at Danish Sara which are regional centers for Ghamidi's Operations.

The aim of this posting is to request all members not to fall into the traps of Ghamidi. At present he is being fully supported by the Qadiyani Lobby against the Hudood Ordinance. The next target given to GEO and Ghamidi is surely to fight against the 295-C Blasphemy Law, to accomodate Qadiyanis.



--------------



Ghamdi does not claim to refute the status of Hadith directly yet he takes it a stage further ahead and categorizes hadith as something from which Ahkaam (Rulings) cannot be drawn and only Quran is the orignal source. He goest on to say that some Ahadith have been misinterpreted by ALL (yes ALL) the Imams, Mufasirs, Muhaditheen, Fuqah, Ulemas etc. To quote an example is his refutation of the Hadith that says (it is a Mafhoom) Whosoever Changes His Faith, Kill Him.

According to Ghamidi the ruling on Qital (Killing a Person) when he becomes a Murtad (Apostate) doesnot apply to present times. It was restricted to the time of Holy Prophet Salal Lahu Aalahi Wassalam and after that it had become Mauqoof. (Burhan, by Ghamidi). Ghamidi says that this Hadith has been misinterpreted by all the Ulemas for 1200 years wherein the meaining of Umoom (Generality) has been taken at large. Therefore he concludes that a person cannot be executed if he decides to change his religion from Islam because there is no evidence of it in Quran and Sunnah.

Ghamidi and his disciples also use the word Quran and Sunnah and separate Hadith from Sunnah.


He calls them the Shabistan Shibli of Knowledge and hails them as the reformists of this time. He has castigated Maulana Rashid Ahmed Gangohi (RA), Qasim Nanatwi (RA), Shaykh ul Hind, Syed Hussain Ahmed Madani, Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi, Allama Shabbir Ahmed Uthmani and calls them Bigots. According to Ghamidi this group of people (Deobandis) are like an old building with rotten foundations that will become empty by itself through passage of time.

Ghamadi enjoys special company with Robert Spencer and Danielt Pipes. What is interesting is that Ghamdi and his associates particularly Moiz Amjad have tried to defend Islam against the criticism of Daniel Pipes and Robert Spencer and have miserably (deliberately) failed! In fact they have subscribed to the views of these two critics with special reference to the 7 Recitations of Quran, which according to Ghamdi and his teachers are practices of Juhul and have no place in Islam.

May Allah Save Us All From This Fitna

[royarnekara]

Javed Ahmad Ghamidi, together with his disciples Khalid Zaheer, Moiz Amjad and others is spreading ULTRA-MODERNIST & DANGEROUS ideas in Pakistan through Geo TV and AAJ Tv etc.

They have also set up various 'institutes' to impart religious education to the masses.

Amongst the dangerous ideas that they believe in and promote are the following:

1. Questioning the validity and authenticity of hadiths, in imitation of goldziher and schacht & other orientalists.

2. Denying in the descent of Sayyidna 'Isa bin Maryam (alayhis salaam).

3. Denying the trial of the Dajjal.

4. Not believing in the following of the 4 Sunni schools of fiqh.

5. Denying the concept of hijab in Islam.

etc.

The following is said by a qadiyani (La'natullah Alaeh) that Ghamdi is also their companion:


Pakistan’s well-known scholar of Islam Javed Ahmad Ghamdi, who appreciates the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement literature, in his Dunya TV program ‘Deen-o-Danish’ has answered a question that quotes Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad (QK2) statement. The question quotes QK2 book ‘Anwar-ul-Aloom’ volume 2, page 151, ‘Aina-e-Sadaqqat’.

[Mr_White]

@ Auzer

1. Ayesha reported that Asma’ the daughter of Abu Bakr came to the Messenger of Allah while wearing thin clothing. He approached her and said: 'O Asma’! When a girl reaches the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain exposed except this and this. He pointed to the face and hands." [Abu Dawud]

mmmm so where does this hadith prove that Islam commanded girl's hairs to be covered? Hadiths are in everyday common language , right? Hadiths like the above you quoted are not to be taken as official commands for general population. It is VERY obvious by the very narration of Hazrat Aisha (R.A) ... See the bolded part here . . .

"Ayesha reported that Asma’ the daughter of Abu Bakr came to the Messenger of Allah while wearing thin clothing."

You see the context of this hadith? Let suppose that you are Prophet Muhammad (SAW) sitting and you see this young girl coming to you with very thin cloths...You 'teach her in elderly manner' that "beta , when you become adult ...you should not expose anything other than this and this" ..Now you would NOT be giving an official command for your followers but just telling the girl that her 'hand area' and her 'face area' is ok but don't wear "thin" clothes that reveal her body. Now honestly tell me , do we know that prophet ever explicitly told Muslim women to cover their heads? Not he didn't! Point finger towards face is NOT specific. How do we know that Prophet meant only "face" and not the complete upbody structure "face , neck , head" ? Also , does that mean that Muslim women also have to cover their 'necks' too since prophet only pointed finger towards their face? ....You see my brother...Aisha (R.A) reported the correct thing BUT prophet meant the OBVIOUS that girl's upper part (Head,neck,face) and hands are alright but other than that , she should not wear thin clothes that reveal her body.... Also , if this was such a big/important issue..Allah would've been explicit about it! Again , Muslim girls should keep wearing Hijab because it has now become our culture and its good! But we should NOT look down upon a girl that does not wear hijab..She isn't sinful just because she didn't cover her hairs.

2. I would rather take the opinion of classic scholars where Qur'aan is concerned. Those scholars did great effort for Islam. We must all learn from them but we should also study Islam ourselves. Probably these scholars missed something that we find out due to our advancement? Ijtihad is a part of Islam and we aren't even talking about it..Just mere study of Islamic theology is enough...Islam is same but our understanding must evolve and become more sophisticated. We should not get struck in past..we should learn more and more and more about Islam...

3. Wearing pants is not sinful, as long as they aren't tight, revealing, or the sort men wear. mmmm definition of "tight" is different from person to person , culture to culture etc ...

[GetsTan]

You mean to say ALL the scholars, sorry, Sahaba and Scholars of 1400+ years got it wrong, and only Javed Ghamdi has it right?

edit: Quraan tells us to ask those of knowledge in matters of deen. Sahaba themselves would ask scholars, then who are we to self study?

[Evdokia]

From Umm Salamah who said: When the words ‘draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies’ were revealed, the women of the Ansaar went out as if there were crows on their heads because of the way they covered themselves.

(Abu Dawood, 4101; classed as sahih by Albani)

From ‘A’ishah who said: Riders used to pass by us when we were with the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in ihram. When they came near us we would lower our jilbaabs from our heads over our faces, and when they had passed by we would uncover our faces. (Abu Dawood, 1562.)


From Anas ibn Malik: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) brought Fatimah a slave which he donated to her. Fatimah wore a garment which, when she covered her head, did not reach her feet, and when she covered her feet by it, that garment did not reach her head. When the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) saw her struggle, he said: There is no harm to you: Here is only your father and slave.
(Abu Dawud, Book 32, Number 4094.)

[Evdokia]

Let us now turn to the specific verse on hijab in the Qur’an: “And tell the believing women to lower their eyes, and guard their modesty, and that they display not their ornaments except what appears of them. And that they draw their scarves (khumurihinna) over their bosoms…” (An-Nur: 31)


The word used in this context is khumur which has been variously translated as veils or scarves; the latter is more precise for it is the plural of khimar, which has been defined as “a woman’s head covering; a piece of cloth with which a woman covers her head.” (See Ibn Manzur, Lisan al-`Arab.) Imam Raghib al-Isfahani in his famous work, Mufradat alfadh al-Qur’an defines the terms by saying, “The root meaning of the word is to cover, and the khimar, therefore, is the cover or veil, but it has become synonymous with veil with which a woman covers her head (i.e., headscarf); the plural of the word is khumur (as used in the Qur’an: An-Nur: 31).” Because, according to the Arabic usage, covering the head is the most important function of khimar, no scholar in the past that we know of has ever disputed the fact that women are commanded by Allah to cover their heads; they only argued whether the face and hands are also included in the above order. The majority of scholars are of the opinion that they are allowed to uncover their faces and hands.


Furthermore, one of the basic principles of the Qur’anic exegesis is that we must seek to understand the Qur’anic verses as they were originally revealed to, received, understood, and applied by the Companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), both men and women. We have incontrovertible evidence in the sources to suggest that it is in the above sense, and in the above sense alone, that they related to, and applied the above verse. We read the report of `A’ishah, the beloved wife of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) who said: “By Allah, I never saw more excellent women than those of the Ansar in their zeal to believe and act according to the Revelation. When Allah revealed the verse, “and let them draw their veils over their bosoms”, their men rushed to their homes in order to recite the same to their wives, daughters and sisters and relatives. No sooner they heard the verse, everyone of their women without exception rushed to cut a piece of their long gowns and covered themselves with it, and thus they stood behind the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) with their heads covered as if they had crows sitting on them (because of the color of their head-scarves)!” (See Tafsir works such as those of Ibn Jarir, al-Qurtubi and Ibn Kathir, etc.)

[eskimosik]

@ Auzer

1. Ayesha reported that Asma’ the daughter of Abu Bakr came to the Messenger of Allah while wearing thin clothing. He approached her and said: 'O Asma’! When a girl reaches the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain exposed except this and this. He pointed to the face and hands." [Abu Dawud]

Assalaam'aaleykum!

Does this hadith indicate that face covering (Niqab) was something that Prophet Muhammad (saw) never commanded or even deemed Mustahab?

[bashansasasasa]

I have nothing against Hijab. I LIKE the Hijab (specially Iranian/Turkish/Lebanon girls etc) .... but my question was purely from other point of view...Ghamidi IS a learned man..He has read and studied Islam is great detail. If he says something , there ought to be some reason..So again ...kindly , provide me with "explicit" reference from Islamic Shar'a which says that women should cover their hairs and face? If thats the case then the girls living in the West who wear pents (decent) but don't cover their hairs (but wear decent/complete clothes) are sinful? ...OR ..probably Ghamidi is right and Western Muslim girls do not draw anger of Allah (SWT) just because of their dressing (afterall , they can't wear shalwar/kameez or hijab all the time because they were born in Western culture/environment) .... I have no problem with girls wearing hijab...but to say that this girl is not 'ba parda' because she is wearing T-shirt and pents and not covering her hairs is rude..isn't it?



lol who is joker? Me or Ghamidi?

You are a liar. You don't like the Hijab. You like the Hijabis. JAG and his Jokers have a fetish towards Hijabi's hair and flair. Perverted dorks

[royarnekara]

Assalamu alaykum

The basic question here is why should we reply to a hadeeth rejector and a qadiayani supporter. Let OP clear his stand on hadeeth rejectors and qadiyanees.

[GetsTan]

@ br NnN



I'm not a hadeeth scholar so I cannot say much on the subject. However from that hadeeth we do know that AT THE LEAST a mature girl should cover everything save hands and face.

When verse 33 of Surah Ahzab was revealed, the women covered themselves in such a way that only one eye would show.

Tafseer - Ibn Katheer
"Allah commanded the muslim women to cover this sheet on top of them to cover their bodies except one eye, when it is necessary for them to come out of their homes."

[bashansasasasa]

Assalaam'aaleykum!

Does this hadith indicate that face covering (Niqab) was something that Prophet Muhammad (saw) never commanded or even deemed Mustahab?

The same can be said about the male head cap?

[eskimosik]

The same can be said about the male head cap?

Assalaam'aaleykum, Bro!

I think, male head cap or topee isn't wajib according to Ahnaf.

[eskimosik]

@ br NnN



I'm not a hadeeth scholar so I cannot say much on the subject. However from that hadeeth we do know that AT THE LEAST a mature girl should cover everything save hands and face.

When verse 33 of Surah Ahzab was revealed, the women covered themselves in such a way that only one eye would show.

Tafseer - Ibn Katheer
"Allah commanded the muslim women to cover this sheet on top of them to cover their bodies except one eye, when it is necessary for them to come out of their homes."

I was just trying to understand the ruling of Niqab which is Wajib in the Hanafi madhab (most probably in other 3 too). I am aware of the fact that rulings cannot be derived from just single Hadith, but if a women chooses not to wear niqab and does proper Hijab, will she be sinful for not covering the face? Afterall, hadith of Nabi (saw) in our discussion explicitly states not to cover face (and hands).

[bashansasasasa]

Assalaam'aaleykum, Bro!

I think, male head cap or topee isn't wajib according to Ahnaf.

I know I was commenting on the bolded text below

Assalaam'aaleykum!

Does this hadith indicate that face covering (Niqab) was something that Prophet Muhammad (saw) never commanded or even deemed Mustahab?

[eskimosik]

@Sis Sudoku

Do we have Muslim women in any part of the world today who don Niqab+Jilbab as described in the tafseer of Surah Ahzab by Hafiz Ibn Katheer (ra)?

[GetsTan]

According to my friend who just returned from Umrah, Saudi Women even cover both eyes.

I've seen a few Munaqabah who cover both eyes in South Africa itself.

[Evdokia]

I was just trying to understand the ruling of Niqab which is Wajib in the Hanafi madhab (most probably in other 3 too). I am aware of the fact that rulings cannot be derived from just single Hadith, but if a women chooses not to wear niqab and does proper Hijab, will she be sinful for not covering the face? Afterall, hadith of Nabi (saw) in our discussion explicitly states not to cover face (and hands).

The hadith from Abu Dawud that you are mentioning is weak in both matn and sanad.

[Evdokia]

@Sis Sudoku

Do we have Muslim women in any part of the world today who don Niqab+Jilbab as described in the tafseer of Surah Ahzab by Hafiz Ibn Katheer (ra)?

You have them in India itself, akhi.