[draigenia]

Can you show me a hadith where prophet stopped anyone from working outside its home? Hazrat Khadija was a business woman in THOSE times...Prophet worked for her in 7th century!!!! Also , Prophet (SAW) was living under social pressure and he was living in 7th century desert....NOT 21st century industrialized world. Also , there are special "Ahkaam" for Prophet's wives/daughters and even family members (women).There was a profound reason behind it..So please , don't give example of Prophet's wives because Ahkaam for general Muslim women were different . . . . .

You are contradicting yourself. Khadija was married to Muhammad when he didn't get Prophethood yet. So, it can't be a proof because that time there was no Shariah. And later, muslim women who were in desperate need to go outside, their need was to fetch water from the well, a household chore.

Why are you against your women so much? Don't you want your daughter and sister to be confident , economically indepedent and strong! So that no man can oppress them and exploit them (sexually , physically and mentally) ? C'mon now ... No. I'm not oppressing my women by not letting them to go outside, rather I'm saving them from all types of abuses which are common in your nasty western society.

[wmirkru]

I wonder what's stopping this plan from succeeding? unless the plan doesn't exist.

it's probably just a conspiracy theory!

[drycleden]

Auzer,

Typing in CAPS does not strengthen your argument.

You claim Muslims were "liberal" when they were in power, and that women and men interacted freely. Prove it.

Our Mother Khadijah was a business woman, yes. But she didn't go out of her house with her caravans to conduct her own trade, did she? That's the very reason she hired Nabi - to manage her business for her. You are proving my point.

Don't give the example of the Saudis. We all know they implement some of the shariah while neglecting other parts. They have allied themselves with the kuffar, so how can Allah give them success? Nevertheless, they are still receiving rizq due to the dua of Ibrahim

I agree that women should have the opportunity to receive education, to work, etc. provided none of Allah's rules are being violated. There are many jobs women can do in a women-only environment, or from their own homes over the internet.

The problem with your mentality is that you feel it's okay to discard Allah's laws to achieve some worldly benefit. Hijab is commanded by Allah and his Nabi. We did not make up these laws for fun, just to put "obstacles" in the way of women's progress and to exploit them. Don't you know about the massive amounts of sexual harassment and exploitation that goes on in mixed-gender workplaces? Got nothing to say about that?

Let me simplify it for you: Hijab is wajib for men and women. A woman working in a place surrounded by strange men is not wajib. I think it's clear what takes precedence.

[milfovoxapl]

Auzer,

Typing in CAPS does not strengthen your argument.

You claim Muslims were "liberal" when they were in power, and that women and men interacted freely. Prove it.

Our Mother Khadijah was a business woman, yes. But she didn't go out of her house with her caravans to conduct her own trade, did she? That's the very reason she hired Nabi - to manage her business for her. You are proving my point.

Don't give the example of the Saudis. We all know they implement some of the shariah while neglecting other parts. They have allied themselves with the kuffar, so how can Allah give them success? Nevertheless, they are still receiving rizq due to the dua of Ibrahim

I agree that women should have the opportunity to receive education, to work, etc. provided none of Allah's rules are being violated. There are many jobs women can do in a women-only environment, or from their own homes over the internet.

The problem with your mentality is that you feel it's okay to discard Allah's laws to achieve some worldly benefit. Hijab is commanded by Allah and his Nabi. We did not make up these laws for fun, just to put "obstacles" in the way of women's progress and to exploit them. Don't you know about the massive amounts of sexual harassment and exploitation that goes on in mixed-gender workplaces? Got nothing to say about that?

Let me simplify it for you: Hijab is wajib for men and women. A woman working in a place surrounded by strange men is not wajib. I think it's clear what takes precedence.

superb work. excellently put. you should write a small piece about this on a blog (if u have one). i admire how you put the point across

[drycleden]

superb work. excellently put. you should write a small piece about this on a blog (if u have one). i admire how you put the point across

I don't have a blog, but I am glad you benefited from something I typed alhamdulillah. Please make dua for me.

I just felt the need to reply here because I know too many Muslims who look down on women who choose to be home-makers. It has gotten to the point where pious Muslimahs are made to feel worthless because they have sacrificed having a career for the sake of their families or their deen, or simply out of personal choice. They are made out to be lazy, stupid or unambitious. I think it's despicable.

[wmirkru]

Auzer,

Typing in CAPS does not strengthen your argument.

You claim Muslims were "liberal" when they were in power, and that women and men interacted freely. Prove it.

Our Mother Khadijah was a business woman, yes. But she didn't go out of her house with her caravans to conduct her own trade, did she? That's the very reason she hired Nabi - to manage her business for her. You are proving my point.

Don't give the example of the Saudis. We all know they implement some of the shariah while neglecting other parts. They have allied themselves with the kuffar, so how can Allah give them success? Nevertheless, they are still receiving rizq due to the dua of Ibrahim

I agree that women should have the opportunity to receive education, to work, etc. provided none of Allah's rules are being violated. There are many jobs women can do in a women-only environment, or from their own homes over the internet.

The problem with your mentality is that you feel it's okay to discard Allah's laws to achieve some worldly benefit. Hijab is commanded by Allah and his Nabi. We did not make up these laws for fun, just to put "obstacles" in the way of women's progress and to exploit them. Don't you know about the massive amounts of sexual harassment and exploitation that goes on in mixed-gender workplaces? Got nothing to say about that?

Let me simplify it for you: Hijab is wajib for men and women. A woman working in a place surrounded by strange men is not wajib. I think it's clear what takes precedence.

excellent post but just a little mistake made regarding ruling on hijab; Hijab is fardh and not wajib; wajib is slightly lesser [in terms of obligation] than fardh

[drycleden]

Hijab is fardh brother and not wajib; wajib is slightly lesser [in terms of obligation] than fardh

Actually, I think only the Hanafis make a distinction between wajib and fardh. However, both are such that one is sinful for leaving the act. http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...&ID=972&CATE=4

The ruling of a wajib is deserving punishment for leaving it [like the fard], not declaring as an unbeliever the one who denies it�s necessary nature [due to the probabilistic nature of the evidence; unlike the fard whose denial does cause unbelief if done so knowingly], and reward for it�s accomplishment [like the fard]. It�s specific ruling in the prayer is that the prayer is deemed deficient by leaving a wajib element. It is necessary to perform a prostration of forgetfulness if omitted forgetfully or to repeat the prayer if omitted intentionally. In the case that one neither prostrates for forgetfulness nor repeats the prayer, one is still counted as having offered the obligatory prayer though with deficiency [and doing so is sinful]. [Imdad al-Fattah, 256] I was just using it in the linguistic sense, but thanks for pointing this out.

Anyway, I think I've gotten my point across about the whole women working/hijab issue. I don't plan to post anymore in this thread.

[wmirkru]

Actually, I think only the Hanafis make a distinction between wajib and fardh. However, both are such that one is sinful for leaving the act. http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...&ID=972&CATE=4


I was just using it in the linguistic sense, but thanks for pointing this out.

Anyway, I think I've gotten my point across about the whole women working/hijab issue. I don't plan to post anymore in this thread.

yet there is a difference; there is absolute consensus on hijab being fardh, and does not leave any possibility of it being wajib; the denial of fardh of hijab constitutes kufr thus it is important to get the terminology right regarding it; also getting it right prevents from misinformation; i knew that you meant wajib in the same way as fardh, but there may be others that would make a distinction

[Nptxsews]

I don't have a blog, but I am glad you benefited from something I typed alhamdulillah. Please make dua for me.

I just felt the need to reply here because I know too many Muslims who look down on women who choose to be home-makers. It has gotten to the point where pious Muslimahs are made to feel worthless because they have sacrificed having a career for the sake of their families or their deen, or simply out of personal choice. They are made out to be lazy, stupid or unambitious. I think it's despicable.

JazakAllah kyran brother...too many Muslims have become too westernized in their thinking.

[Nptxsews]

Auzer,

Typing in CAPS does not strengthen your argument.

You claim Muslims were "liberal" when they were in power, and that women and men interacted freely. Prove it.

Our Mother Khadijah was a business woman, yes. But she didn't go out of her house with her caravans to conduct her own trade, did she? That's the very reason she hired Nabi - to manage her business for her. You are proving my point.

Don't give the example of the Saudis. We all know they implement some of the shariah while neglecting other parts. They have allied themselves with the kuffar, so how can Allah give them success? Nevertheless, they are still receiving rizq due to the dua of Ibrahim

I agree that women should have the opportunity to receive education, to work, etc. provided none of Allah's rules are being violated. There are many jobs women can do in a women-only environment, or from their own homes over the internet.

The problem with your mentality is that you feel it's okay to discard Allah's laws to achieve some worldly benefit. Hijab is commanded by Allah and his Nabi. We did not make up these laws for fun, just to put "obstacles" in the way of women's progress and to exploit them. Don't you know about the massive amounts of sexual harassment and exploitation that goes on in mixed-gender workplaces? Got nothing to say about that?

Let me simplify it for you: Hijab is wajib for men and women. A woman working in a place surrounded by strange men is not wajib. I think it's clear what takes precedence.

JazakAllah kyran.

[Mboxmaja]

Never! Muslim girls should be economically independent. The biggest tool of women oppression is to make women confined to house. Offcourse , family should be women's FIRST priority but if they can work and want to work...there should be NO obstacle in their path. Men exploit girls just because they know that their wives "depend" on them and also that women will tolerate the oppression and not go for divorce because Muslim societies , for the large part , severely look down upon the divorced women..specially in rural areas. Divorce men can get another good wife but a divorce girl will rarely get a decent unmarried husband....Don't tell me this isn't true.

Brother are you being sarcastic or serious?

Although sarcasm is the most lying type of speech in this instance I think it it would have been better.

Modern workplaces are not good places for good girls or women,

they are nearly all places of flirting, sexual harassment and abuse and places of zina,

they are places where hijabis are typically pressurized to uncover or to dress in a less Islamic way,

they are often places where men and women are put into situations where they are alone together whether they like it or not,


Allah (SWT) has placed two big obstacles in the path of young women in regards working in the modern day, they are that...

1. If a normal healthy girl is grown into a young woman she should be married according to the Holy Prophet (saws) clear words and if she is working and married then the next thing that follows is she will start using contraceptives to prevent pregnancy so that she can continue to work and even if she does not a working young wife is still almost inevitably be depriving her husband of his Islamic rights that she should be available to him and look after his household and children etc.

2. The free mixing of men and women is prohibited in various ways by Islam, therefore even if a young women ignores the Holy Prophet's (saws) clear teaching to marry and instead puts off marriage then she cannot work in a mixed sex environment without mixing and speaking with various non-mahram men throughout the day and these may include bad men and boys who may try to incite her to chit-chat, flirting or even zina. Even if this does not happen it is common for young girls in work situations to develop friendships with non-mahram males, which is of course not halal. These things limit her to a single sex workplace, can you name some of these single-sex workplaces for me?

The mistreatment of Muslim women by their husbands has nothing to do with their wives being at home, it has everything to do with the fact that the husband is an ignorant and/or bad man who does not either know or fear the punishment of Allah (SWT) for the mistreatment of his wife and has no honor or shame in front of her family.

Practising Islam as taught by the Prophet (saws) is the way to ensure the well being of young women, not throwing them out into the world to become the plaything of sinners or at least the workmate, aqcuantance or even freind of strange men.

[Argurnenoni]

Some beautiful responses here I’d just like to add that It is possible for a Muslimah to be the equivalent of 5 or 20 other Muslimahs by virtue of her exceptional Iman. Such women can be there for their family 1000% while fighting for a noble cause 1000%. It’s 1000% possible.

Barak Allah ta’aala
'alaa ni'matil Islam

[Assungusa]

If people stuck to traditional gender roles and family values, a lot of problems would be solved. For example, in America, you have young, single women entering the workforce. These girls are hired by companies who have quotas to employ women, so they might be hired over men who are equally or more qualified. They live by themselves, and take home a high salary which is squandered on luxuries for themselves. Similarly, young men who work and live by themselves spend all their earnings on themselves.

Now, if that young man and that young woman had gotten married, with the man working and the woman taking care of the house and kids, then the salary for one job would have provided for an entire family, and not been squandered on luxury items. Moreover, the other job would then be freed up for another young man upon whom providing for his family is an obligation. More jobs to go around for those who need them, and less waste.

First, the rising cost of living is increasingly prohibiting the existence of single-working-parent households. It's just too expensive to send your two kids to university, feed the family, pay mortgage on the house and drive (a) car(s) with just one parent working.

Secondly, who are you to dictate who plays what role in society? Why should a young woman stay home if she doesn't want to and why should a young man be forced to provide for the family if he chooses not to? If the family is working with the mother earning money, what's wrong with that? Why should your religious views dictate what others do?

-Jas

[Argurnenoni]

First, the rising cost of living is increasingly prohibiting the existence of single-working-parent households. It's just too expensive to send your two kids to university, feed the family, pay mortgage on the house and drive (a) car(s) with just one parent working.

Secondly, who are you to dictate who plays what role in society? Why should a young woman stay home if she doesn't want to and why should a young man be forced to provide for the family if he chooses not to? If the family is working with the mother earning money, what's wrong with that? Why should your religious views dictate what others do?

-Jas

Firstly, may Allah SWT guide you to Islam. Amin everyone. Secondly, Islam is not about doing what we feel like doing. Thirdly, about the woman wanting to work outside the home, it depends on her motivation and how sincere she’s being to Allah SWT. If Allah SWT 'sees' in heart she’s being sincere, He SWT will Allah SWT will make it possible for her to work under His SWT protection or will SWT provide her with a better alternative. Sincere Muslimahs would happily use Harry Potter’s invisibility cloak and a TH6000 when working with non mahram men. If a Muslimah has a problem with not being seen by non mahrams and her natural voice not being heard, then I’d say that’s an indication she’s not being sincere and should save herself from her nafs by staying home. Wallahu a’lam

[Mboxmaja]

First, the rising cost of living is increasingly prohibiting the existence of single-working-parent households. It's just too expensive to send your two kids to university, feed the family, pay mortgage on the house and drive (a) car(s) with just one parent working.

Secondly, who are you to dictate who plays what role in society? Why should a young woman stay home if she doesn't want to and why should a young man be forced to provide for the family if he chooses not to? If the family is working with the mother earning money, what's wrong with that? Why should your religious views dictate what others do?

-Jas

It was Allah (swt) who gave us the example of life through the teaching of the Holy Prophet (saws) from which genuine Muslims get their social model and whether you like it or not it is certainly not a model in which women go out to work and men stay at home living of their wives earnings.

With all due respect many of your views on this subject are clearly those of the feminist secular-fundamentalist enemies of religion and they are certainly not those of the learned people of Islam of any authentic Sunni school of thought.

It is very interesting that someone with many of the views that are being promoted by the enemies of religion should be posting on this thread about people who would like to destroy religion.

Islam is based upon submission to Allah (swt) and is practiced by following the life example of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saws) and his blessed Companions (raa). If you don't like that example it is to your great personal loss in this life and the hereafter. Either ways your views on this subject are not the views taught to us by any of the real scholars of Islam.