[RichardFG435]

Certain people reject the bulk (if not all) of the Sahih Hadith literature, deeming it fabricated, sectarian, anti-reason and anti-women. For instance, they postulate that it is inappropriate and immoral for a prophet to marry a nine-year-old, hence the narrations about sayyida Ayesha's age at the time of her marriage with sayyidina Muhammad (God's peace and blessing be upon him) must all be fabricated and invented by perverts. Similarly, they might reject narrations legitimizing certain Hadd-punishments that are not mentioned in the Qur'an (such as stoning, the death penalty for apostasy etc.). What is the verdict of the scholars of the mainstream Muslim community, i.e. the Ahl al-Sunna, on such people (quotes appreciated)? And how is the laymen to behave towards such people if they fail to mend their aqa'id despite sincere nasiha?

[Biassasecumma]

Never knew there was such a thing as liberal/moderate Muslim.

[Unwiseevove]

in my opinion many modernists are just looking to change islam towards the times and please the non- muslims who see islam as something 'alien', there have always been these modernists who have tried to change islam to fit in with their culture so they can practice what they like in islam plus retain some of what they favour from their culture, in todays times many people are rejecting large fundamental parts of the din so they can pursue their desires. rather than rectifying themselves of these false desire which lead them astray they reject the din so they can further pursue these. many of these liberals have now become secular allowing themselves to detach from the din so they accept what they want and reject what they want based on their own interpretations.

[retrahdggd]

Assalaamu'alaikum,

I thought I would bump this thread. Anybody with more thoughts/ideas on how to deal with modernist/liberal Muslims? I now have some family who regard me as being too 'hardcore' when I have decided I don't want to have a job and instead want to study deen, focus on family and have started wearing niqab... I think some people just don't get how scholarship works in Islam and end up trying to go out into the world, do da'wa and tell everyone that "We Muslims are just like you in most ways" but they are so oblivious to their own lack of understanding in the deen, and don't follow Islam with complete submission. How do we deal with these people??

[johnbeller]

Assalaamu'alaikum,

I thought I would bump this thread. Anybody with more thoughts/ideas on how to deal with modernist/liberal Muslims? I now have some family who regard me as being too 'hardcore' when I have decided I don't want to have a job and instead want to study deen, focus on family and have started wearing niqab... I think some people just don't get how scholarship works in Islam and end up trying to go out into the world, do da'wa and tell everyone that "We Muslims are just like you in most ways" but they are so oblivious to their own lack of understanding in the deen, and don't follow Islam with complete submission. How do we deal with these people??

Walaikum Assalam,

Just wanted to say that keep up your good work, and Allah will test you with these situation to check your patience and Sabr and as you persevere InshAllah your rank will be elevated in the sight of Allah. As for dealing with your relatives and modernist. If you are good at what you do, if you polish your character , and you seriously gain knowledge and Allah blesses you with Wisdom, then in time the modernist will see themselves that how your deen and duniya will both be in a better condition compared to them. I personally know someone , came from back home, was a niqabi, and relatives here were all whinning about how she wont be able to do much in these societies, But Allah made things easy for her,she was determined and she did well in all the things she wanted to do, raised a good practicing family here, and always kept her character high, and the tides have changed and now the modernist relatives have not much to say, cuz she is well adjusted and did all that they thought she would never been able to do. But we have to deal with these muslim modernist with patience, alot of them are sincere in the deen, but have weak iman and think that its time to let the burqas and beards go. If we argue with them then its not any use. The best thing is to prove them wrong and show them that you can function well in the society and Allah is the one who makes things easy. But this will also require a strong faith and trust in Allah from your behalf. These were just my thoughts and personal experiences. Wasslam

[Trebbinsa]

Certain people reject the bulk (if not all) of the Sahih Hadith literature, deeming it fabricated, sectarian, anti-reason and anti-women. For instance, they postulate that it is inappropriate and immoral for a prophet to marry a nine-year-old, hence the narrations about sayyida Ayesha's age at the time of her marriage with sayyidina Muhammad (God's peace and blessing be upon him) must all be fabricated and invented by perverts. Similarly, they might reject narrations legitimizing certain Hadd-punishments that are not mentioned in the Qur'an (such as stoning, the death penalty for apostasy etc.). What is the verdict of the scholars of the mainstream Muslim community, i.e. the Ahl al-Sunna, on such people (quotes appreciated)? And how is the laymen to behave towards such people if they fail to mend their aqa'id despite sincere nasiha?

I can't see how they could be considered as anything different than kuffar..

[Wxrxnhar]

I think most of it is down to the luxuries they live with, and what they aspire for in life. For example, a sufi person, a proper one, will always be thinking of Allah swt and be constantly in dhikr to HIM. These modernists have bypassed that, and deemed that the dunya is more important and having a 'good time' is the most beneficial thing in life.

[Nikkytas]

They tend to call themselves progressive Muslims, and they try to combine traditional Islam with Western concepts like human rights and secular pluralistic democracy. Here is an example of their principles:

http://www.mpvusa.org/our_principles.html

[Trebbinsa]

They tend to call themselves progressive Muslims, and they try to combine traditional Islam with Western concepts like human rights and secular pluralistic democracy. Here is an example of their principles:

http://www.mpvusa.org/our_principles.html

As if the "Western concepts" where divine revelation!
Nay, "human rights" and "secular pluralistic democracy" are kufr.

Please don't advertise their rubbish.

[pitoufsd]

You know these modernists and liberals who are mostly kuffar are the worst enemies of islam. People blame salafis, sufis, HT etc etc but these guys are the scum of the earth. They think they are too clever for their own good just because they have swallowed a dictionary and memorized a few flashy words.

[scewDeasp]

These modernist liberal muslims hav dne more damage to islam than the kuffar. They have nothng to do with islam . All they want is fornicate , drink , gamble n ya don't forget pray jumah and eid and dream about themselves being the best followers of islam.

Then u have the kuffar who know how to use such so called muslims. Though I'm not on this Zina-Networking website called facebook but I've seen my friends using it and they do have a option called religious vies liberal . U once choose that option u gona behave like that. Everywhere fitna is there the whole thing is mind control.

It all starts in the name of social n/w but ends up turning into zina n/w website , it all starts frm making friends nmostly opp sex.
Wallahi muslims open facebook for hrs making friends talking hrs then xing date n u knw where it ends.

Forget about a small group of peousing it for dawah.
We have sewed the seeds of our own destruction .

You say to these people bro salah and they give u a wierd look as if this thing is made up from me or some alien stuffs but he forgets
ALLAH swt has commanded us this .

Our call is towards Allah
Your call is towards shaytan and his army.

Praise be to Allah the lord of the worlds (alamin)
The will of Allah will always be dominant.

[milfovoxapl]

Assalaamu'alaikum,

I thought I would bump this thread. Anybody with more thoughts/ideas on how to deal with modernist/liberal Muslims? I now have some family who regard me as being too 'hardcore' when I have decided I don't want to have a job and instead want to study deen, focus on family and have started wearing niqab... I think some people just don't get how scholarship works in Islam and end up trying to go out into the world, do da'wa and tell everyone that "We Muslims are just like you in most ways" but they are so oblivious to their own lack of understanding in the deen, and don't follow Islam with complete submission. How do we deal with these people??

aoa,

perhaps something like this, and this?

[SpyRemo]

As if the "Western concepts" where divine revelation!
Nay, "human rights" and "secular pluralistic democracy" are kufr.

Please don't advertise their rubbish.

With respect, I don't believe that she was trying to "advertise". It is difficult to refute wrong ideologies if you don't understand or educate yourself on them.

[Trebbinsa]

With respect, I don't believe that she was trying to "advertise".

I neither believe it was her intention, but posting the link will still have that effect of "promoting" the reading of such deviant and dangerous ideas.

It is difficult to refute wrong ideologies if you don't understand or educate yourself on them.

The burden of refuting such deviant ideologies isn't on the whole Muslim population, but rather, on a specialized segment of it which has the knowledge and tools to deal with it. For general public and laymen, that's dangerous stuff for our own Iman and should be banned.

[SawbasyWrab]

al-Salamu 'Aleykum,

Liberal, Democratic Muslims and other types, are considered Muslims until they display something that constitutes Kufr and insist on it after truth has been revealed to them, an example:

A Muslims said: "We need a democratic government, we're sick of this tyranny!"

I asked: "What do you mean by democratic government?"

He said: "Freedom"

I asked: "From what?"

He replied: "From the corrupt tyrants that steal our money and take away our rights and block us from changing our rotten conditions."

As you can see, I can't jump and say "You're a Kaffir!" the man after all is a Muslim who prays and he never said anything that opposes Islam or Shari'ah. So what do we conclude? we conclude that when 99% of Muslim laymen say they want "Democracy" they don't mean anything other than "Freedom" and as you know Freedom is a part of Islam and does not conflict with it.

So "Democratic Muslims" and "Liberal Muslims" are just like the Shia, you can't make Takfeer on them unless you know what the heck they believe in exactly and how they define "Democracy" and so on...

(I do not say they are correct, the only thing we should ask for is an Islamic Government nothing else)

[Mboxmaja]

In the mid 20th century CE Bediuzzaman Said Nursi (ra) used to talk about Freedom and Democracy

he is typically considered a liberal and his supposed modern followers are yet more liberal still

but for him Democracy and Freedom were clearly not the ways of the West

his Democracy was to vote for and choose leaders whose rule is limited by the perimeters of the Islamic Shariah

and his Freedom was the freedom to do what you want within the broad perimeters of what is halal


maybe if he was still alive they wouldn't call him a liberal modern Muslim

[Aizutox]

Assalaamu'alaikum,

I thought I would bump this thread. Anybody with more thoughts/ideas on how to deal with modernist/liberal Muslims? I now have some family who regard me as being too 'hardcore' when I have decided I don't want to have a job and instead want to study deen, focus on family and have started wearing niqab... I think some people just don't get how scholarship works in Islam and end up trying to go out into the world, do da'wa and tell everyone that "We Muslims are just like you in most ways" but they are so oblivious to their own lack of understanding in the deen, and don't follow Islam with complete submission. How do we deal with these people??

Love them... Treat them with respect and don't force them to be like you... It is ok to hard on yourself, but be easy with them... Be forgiving... If they sin .. pray for them... don't lecture them (you'll run them away)... If they ask you to sin.. this is when you speak up... The Prophet (sallahu alaihi wa salam) was sent as a Mercy to the world, show them mercy and perhaps they will embrace you.... Perhaps they will strive to be like you....

And Allah knows best.

[dahlilaninfo]

Modern Muslims are too dangerous for the deen.

[tsamprasxx]

al-Salamu 'Aleykum,

Liberal, Democratic Muslims and other types, are considered Muslims until they display something that constitutes Kufr and insist on it after truth has been revealed to them, an example:

A Muslims said: "We need a democratic government, we're sick of this tyranny!"

I asked: "What do you mean by democratic government?"

He said: "Freedom"

I asked: "From what?"

He replied: "From the corrupt tyrants that steal our money and take away our rights and block us from changing our rotten conditions."

As you can see, I can't jump and say "You're a Kaffir!" the man after all is a Muslim who prays and he never said anything that opposes Islam or Shari'ah. So what do we conclude? we conclude that when 99% of Muslim laymen say they want "Democracy" they don't mean anything other than "Freedom" and as you know Freedom is a part of Islam and does not conflict with it.

So "Democratic Muslims" and "Liberal Muslims" are just like the Shia, you can't make Takfeer on them unless you know what the heck they believe in exactly and how they define "Democracy" and so on...

(I do not say they are correct, the only thing we should ask for is an Islamic Government nothing else)

A lot of the modernist/liberal/progressive Muslims are against Shari'ah. For example, here in Canada, there was a group that launched protests against the civil Shari'ah courts. The Jews and Christians were already having their personal and civil issues arbitrated by religious courts, whether they be based on Catholic canonical laws or Jewish Halakhic laws. When the Muslims wanted something similar, these progressive "Muslims" came out of the woodwork and launched protests against this. There are many progressive "Muslims" who are against the hijab. There are many progressive "Muslims" who speak out against hadd punishments, calling the divine commandments as "barbaric". There are many "progressive" Muslims who vouch for homosexuality and call anyone who opposes it as backwards.