[Tainlyferfara]

It is pretty unfair to always label brelvis so I thought I'd do the honour of listing the achievements of some of our deobandi brethrens.

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...-bolton-mosque

Anybody who knows about this masjid knows the people behind it are big shot deobandis and nothing would have been done without the approval of the big shots.

The same masjid received 250,000 pounds from the government to promote a certain agenda. Now instead of bad mouthing tahir ul qadri 24/7 and calling brelvis sell outs I want to see some of our deobandi brethren do the same here.....but wait a minute they are our people......so I await the usual excuses.

[fruttomma]

I'm not a Deobandi but maybe we should make excuses nonetheless:

1. Maybe by inviting the kuffar into the masjid, they hoped to convert them (and hence, dissuade them from fighting against the Muslims)
2. Perhaps they wanted to speak to them about at least trying to keep the civilians safe, and thereby saving a few Muslim lives in the process

I'm not a supporter in any way since it is haram to aid the kuffar to fight the Muslims (and would actually be kufr, hence the fatwa's on Afghan National Army, etc) but I don't think that's what they where doing here

[maxfreemann]

It is pretty unfair to always label brelvis so I thought I'd do the honour of listing the achievements of some of our deobandi brethrens.

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...-bolton-mosque

Anybody who knows about this masjid knows the people behind it are big shot deobandis and nothing would have been done without the approval of the big shots.

The same masjid received 250,000 pounds from the government to promote a certain agenda. Now instead of bad mouthing tahir ul qadri 24/7 and calling brelvis sell outs I want to see some of our deobandi brethren do the same here.....but wait a minute they are our people......so I await the usual excuses.

Yep. We should distribute our malice fairly.

[Cajlwdvx]

I'm all for being just and consistent in our praise and criticism, but did the Masjid do anything other than explain to them Muslim sensitivities?

I know there should be no cooperation with kuffar who are fighting against the Muslims, but are they really helping them out?

Maybe a scholar or a knowledgable brother/sister can comment on whether or not what's being done here is proper or not?

[Nfxutkpa]

They invited them in and spoke to them about Islam. If these soldiers leave the masjid with an iota more respect for the Muslim traditions and Muslim beliefs, that can only be a good thing. The stories that we hear of British and American troops abusing Muslims are due to lack of respect, understanding and care for the Muslim way of life coupled with the animalistic and barbaric tendencies and hate that they conceal within their hearts. If there was one way to give dawah to them or to try and decrease that, isn't this the method?

[MARMELADINA]

Hujjat here is complete thats all, it puts these soldiers in a very bad situation as far as their hereafter is concerned. Kill or be killed - in either case they have no excuse before Allah swt now. Complete dawa has been given to them. Very difficult situation to be in for these soldiers.

From what I read, the masjid only educated them about Islam, it didnt pat them on their back and give them a toffy for going to Afghanistan. If anything more masajid should do this, in fact, this should be part of military training. They should have to spend a fixed number of hours in a masjid observing salaah and having dialogue with attendees and sit in an Islamic education program and give a test on it.

[Rabbahpuptiopp]

I suspect if this was a 'Barelvi' masjid some of the replies would be very different in this post!
Allah knows best.

[CtEkM8Vq]

I don't agree with inviting them to the mosque or showing them any kindness or respect for that matter...but with the recent Quran burning...the excuse was that the soldiers did not know it was a quran or that it would be offensive...many time they attack masjids with the excuse they didnt realise it was a mosque....so i guess they are trying to not give them a chance to have anymore excuses for this type of thing

the article says

“It has been very useful and we will be able to apply a lot of what we have learned on the ground in Afghanistan. For example, learning how to recognise a smaller mosque, knowing what a prayer mat or the Koran looks like – these are useful things to know when you are on patrol in a Muslim country.”

Read more at: http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...-bolton-mosque

these soldiers don't have an excuse now if they decide to burn more qurans or blow up a masjid

wallahu alam

[cewIdeatovace]

They did not even invited them, on army request the let them in and gave dawa. Whatst he big deal. It could have been different if they would have patted them on the back or have said something against jihad. They did not . So appear fine to me.

The visit was requested by the Chester-based unit in January and hosted by Bolton Council of Mosques. Major Owain Luke, commanding officer of the unit's B Company, said the visit was designed to give the soldiers a better understanding of Islam and the cultural importance of mosques.

Read more at: http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...-bolton-mosque
Give it another try brother.

Peace

[rolex-buy]

No dear brothers you are all mistaken.

It is not at all fair to say "if it's a deobandi masjid, the deobandis remain silent"

I consider myself one and I would not remain silent.

Firstly, we must understand who is a deobandi?

Is it some one who CLAIMS TO BE ONE or one who exemplifies the tenets Islam in every facet of his life?

If this makes no sense, I put forth a simple parable. Aren't there munafiqeen within the ummah itself, up to and including the age of Rasulullah s.a.w.?

How then does anyone expect Deoband to be safe from the influences of kufr and nifaaq, when the ummah itself is NOT?

As for what the 'imam' did, it's best I remain silent. If I were to say whatever is in mind, soon I would end up in jail khana.

But if anyone of you here is from Bolton, kindly do me favour.

Jazakallahu khairan katseeran

Go up to that 'imam' and recite theses Glorious Ayat. Then ask him for its tafsir.

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51)


Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward. How should ye not fight for the cause of Allah and of the feeble among men and of the women and the children who are crying: Our Lord! Bring us forth from out this town of which the people are oppressors! Oh, give us from thy presence some protecting friend! Oh, give us from Thy presence some defender! Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil's strategy is ever weak. (4:74-76)


Jazakallah khair.

[NicolasOL]

I suspect if this was a 'Barelvi' masjid some of the replies would be very different in this post!
Allah knows best.

baralewis are known to be collaboraters of imperial forces since the time of ahmad raza barelwi. any barelwi action or assocciation of this kind would always seem dubious and demand scrutiny.

as opposed to that scholars of deoband are known to uphold truth and have always remained above board inshallah, whether it was imperial powers, indian government, government of pervaiz musharraf or benazir bhutto. there assocciation with authorities as in the case above would not raise eye brows as it would be for "barelwis".

[CtEkM8Vq]

@ Abul Lais, i agree with the first part of your post...our allegiance shouldnt be to a particular group..rather it should be with Allah and his rasool

but the last part of your post...its a long way from teaching people about Islam to taking them as friends! the article in no way suggests they took them as friends or encouraged them in what they are doing

[rolex-buy]

It is pretty unfair to always label brelvis so I thought I'd do the honour of listing the achievements of some of our deobandi brethrens.

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...-bolton-mosque

Anybody who knows about this masjid knows the people behind it are big shot deobandis and nothing would have been done without the approval of the big shots.

The same masjid received 250,000 pounds from the government to promote a certain agenda. Now instead of bad mouthing tahir ul qadri 24/7 and calling brelvis sell outs I want to see some of our deobandi brethren do the same here.....but wait a minute they are our people......so I await the usual excuses.

Relax bro, not all Deobandis are of the same cut. Of course there are hypocrites within them, but who cares, they are everywhere. Let's focus on those who are NOT are look upon them as the models, rather than at those who are eager to sell their imaan for a few pounds.

Put it this way, aren't the mujahideen of Afghanistan and Pakistan all Deobandis as well? Why not look at them as the representative lot than waste your time over a an unknown circus clown who ended up in a masjid?

No offense, just a brotherly advise.

Wassalaam.

[NicolasOL]

No dear brothers you are all mistaken.

It is not at all fair to say "if it's a deobandi masjid, the deobandis remain silent"

I consider myself one and I would not remain silent.

Firstly, we must understand who is a deobandi?

Is it some one who CLAIMS TO BE ONE or one who exemplifies the tenets Islam in every facet of his life?

If this makes no sense, I put forth a simple parable. Aren't there munafiqeen within the ummah itself, up to and including the age of Rasulullah s.a.w.?

How then does anyone expect Deoband to be safe from the influences of kufr and nifaaq, when the ummah itself is NOT?

As for what the 'imam' did, it's best I remain silent. If I were to say whatever is in mind, soon I would end up in jail khana.

But if anyone of you here is from Bolton, kindly do me favour.

Jazakallahu khairan katseeran

Go up to that 'imam' and recite theses Glorious Ayat. Then ask him for its tafsir.

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51)


Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward. How should ye not fight for the cause of Allah and of the feeble among men and of the women and the children who are crying: Our Lord! Bring us forth from out this town of which the people are oppressors! Oh, give us from thy presence some protecting friend! Oh, give us from Thy presence some defender! Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil's strategy is ever weak. (4:74-76)


Jazakallah khair.

perhaps someone should have gone to Sayyid Hussain Ahmad Madani r.a and asked them the tafasir of the ayaat when he was working with Congress, or Allama Shabbir Ahmad Usmani r.a should have been asked about the tafasir when he was working with secular Jinnah.

[rolex-buy]

@ Abul Lais, i agree with the first part of your post...our allegiance shouldnt be to a particular group..rather it should be with Allah and his rasool

but the last part of your post...its a long way from teaching people about Islam to taking them as friends! the article in no way suggests they took them as friends or encouraged them in what they are doing

No bro I must disagree with you.

These filthy harbi kuffaar (disbelievers who are fighting against us) are amongst the worst creatures on earth. They slaughter Muslims (night raids, anyone?), rape our women (anyone wants to take the place of Sister Afiyah Siddiqui?), burn our Qur'an and lock up our brothers like dogs (11 Days 10 Nights all-expenses paid 'holiday' at Guantanamo Bay, anyone?).

NEED I SAY MORE?

The least we must do is voice our opinion clearly, let these 'soldiers' be aware that "YOU FILTHY DOGS ARE NOT WELCOME IN OUR LANDS. GET LOST OR WE WILL SEE YOU OFF IN COFFINS." Even 'teaching' them about how to behave in Afghanistan is tantamount to supporting the haraam occupation, and you get loaded with mountains of sins. Rather one's very imaan is in doubt.

The best we can do has been mentioned by Allah ta'aala:

Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward. (4:74)

So, it's NOT right to accept the accursed soldiers of Shaitaan into a masjid, hope it makes sense.

Wassalaam.

[Rabbahpuptiopp]

baralewis are known to be collaboraters of imperial forces since the time of ahmad raza barelwi. any barelwi action or assocciation of this kind would always seem dubious and demand scrutiny.

as opposed to that scholars of deoband are known to uphold truth and have always remained above board inshallah, whether it was imperial powers, indian government, government of pervaiz musharraf or benazir bhutto. there assocciation with authorities as in the case above would not raise eye brows as it would be for "barelwis".

Allah knows best!

[rolex-buy]

I suspect if this was a 'Barelvi' masjid some of the replies would be very different in this post!
Allah knows best.

Yep I am afraid you are right. But at least my replies should satisfy you to some extent inshaa Allah.

BTW this is what is called asabiyyah (partisanship), when we are so obsessed with a group or party we fail to acknowledge its evildoings.

My obsession with Deoband has been more with its great founding fathers, who were great awliyaa, not really with the present.

For the present it's really the Taliban who come closest to living the true spirit of Islam as envisioned by the 1st gen Deobandis.

[CtEkM8Vq]

So, it's NOT right to accept the accursed soldiers of Shaitaan into a masjid, hope it makes sense.

i myself don't agree to allowing them into the masjid...or showing them any kindness

but in trying to keep husn adh dhan i am suspecting that this was all so that we don't get more incidents like the Quran burning one...by teaching them about these things they have no excuse for burning Qurans and blowing up mosques

[NicolasOL]

No bro I must disagree with you.

These filthy harbi kuffaar (disbelievers who are fighting against us) are amongst the worst creatures on earth. They slaughter Muslims (night raids, anyone?), rape our women (anyone wants to take the place of Sister Afiyah Siddiqui?), burn our Qur'an and lock up our brothers like dogs (11 Days 10 Nights all-expenses paid 'holiday' at Guantanamo Bay, anyone?).

NEED I SAY MORE?

The least we must do is voice our opinion clearly, let these 'soldiers' be aware that "YOU FILTHY DOGS ARE NOT WELCOME IN OUR LANDS. GET LOST OR WE WILL SEE YOU OFF IN COFFINS." Even 'teaching' them about how to behave in Afghanistan is tantamount to supporting the haraam occupation, and you get loaded with mountains of sins. Rather one's very imaan is in doubt.

The best we can do has been mentioned by Allah ta'aala:

Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward. (4:74)

So, it's NOT right to accept the accursed soldiers of Shaitaan into a masjid, hope it makes sense.

Wassalaam.

salam brother

making judgements about the iman of someone else is easy from behind your computer screen. you probably dont have idea of his circumstances or reality, neither do i.

the point is we have enmity with them for the sake of Allah, there is nothing personal. the day they accept islam there would be no difference between them and my muslim brothers. dawah should go on till the last day. WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT WAHSHI r.a WOULD HAVE ACCEPTED ISLAM???

if there is any hope of awakening the conscioussness of humanity among those soldiers or at least planting the seed of that idea, how does that equate to collabrating against islam. worst enemies of islam became the best generals of islam. we can not lose hope and never rule out DAWAH................

[vforvandetta]

right, theres an excuse to invite soldiers into a masjid, though the ulema i follow dont agree with it. in birmingham a good few years back a local mp was invited to the khatame bukhari at jamia islamia fallows road. when the isaatizah walked in, nothing. when the mp walked in people stood up and he gave a talk, apparently. mufti abu zafar(teaches muslim) got up and walked out.i wonder how people would justify this. if it were a brolly we'd be bashing the ayah about not taking the yahood and nasara as friends, but because they were deobandi its seen as the pinnacle of hikmah. can somebody confirm this, though i heard it from VERY reliable sources.