[Nppracph]

Even if you're only joking the matter is dead serious, there is too much group-ism nowadays.

My sarcasm is in making that point!! Instead of being happy to see a muslim brother across the road and giving him salam, we now think whether he is barelwi, deo, or other group. This is obviously wrong.

[gydrorway]

'Deobandis' should stop calling themselves as such because laymen are already confused about other sects (which are sects) whereas deobandism is but pure hanafism which is but pure sunnism thus pure Islam.

That's kind of what I was trying to say.

[botagozzz]

Brother MujahidAbdullah,



Could I possibly discuss with you by email?

the mods can send you my email or vice versa. They may not see your email request so it may be easier to discuss it with me here.

[Cajlwdvx]

can you find just normal sunni hanafi's who belive in sufism that do not belong to deobandi or barelvi?

Would you please highlight what would be the difference between "normal sunni Hanafi" Fiqh and "Deobandi Hanafi" Fiqh?

What's the difference between the two?

[botagozzz]

Would you please highlight what would be the difference between "normal sunni Hanafi" Fiqh and "Deobandi Hanafi" Fiqh?

What's the difference between the two?

Thats the thing, as an unbiased outside observer of the deobandi/barlawi conflict - I have seen little to no difference in the fiqh

The differences arise in the "extracuricular" activities - meaning activiteis that take place outside of Juma' or daily salat.

At a deo masjid, extracuricular activities consist of a tablighi style bayan, exerpts from faidhail amal, and lessons from various books written by deobandi scholars

At a barlawi masjid, they have bayaans - touching on many of the same points the tablighis touch upon - they have lessons from books written by classical scholars and baralwi scholars - the difference is they also have halaqa dhikrs or hadras more often in barlawi masajid, and they have Milads for Rasoolullah of course, but they sometimes have milads for other anbiya and walis as well

Another thing I have noticed is that many people who get trapped in the bubble that categorizes every single Muslim on eartyh into 1 of three categories (salafi, deobandi, barlawi) also get trapped in an even smaller bubble - a bubble within a bubble - for example: A young man is brought up in a deobandi enviroment. He sees the world as 3 shades of gray (deo, barlawi, salafi), and because he has been taugt that the other 2 shades of gray are deangerous to go around because they will harm his deen - he begins to look at them as a threat - he hears stories about what these other two types of Muslims do (they hate Rasoolullah , or they pray to the dead) - he then beleives these things and tells others about the horible things these groups do - but he never has actually seen a barlawi pray to dead person or a salafi try and demolish the tomb of rasoolullah out of hate.

In my 13 years traveling in between these two groups, I hear from barlawis that Tabligis (deobandis) do such and such and are wahabis and to stay far far away - things that in my own observational experience I have found to be untrue - and I have heard from Deobandis that Barlawis do such and such and are Mubtadis - something that I have also found to be untrue (at least for the barlawi brothers I have been around)

Also, Deobandis tend to lable every goofy sufi, every liberal mubtadi weirdo sheikh or group as barlawi, much as barlawis lable everyone outside of them as Wahabi - this usually comes from the laymen, the educated brothers know the difference generally - In reality this divide is not created by Barlawi scholarls or Deobandi scholars - it is their fervant followers who mistakenly create this divide.

Since I am on a forum populated with deobandis, I will say this - in the Islamic spectrum of ideologies, deobandis fall closer to the middle than salafis or barlawis - there are few things they do that I dont participate in. They back things up with Quran and hadeeth, and the things I particpate in that they do not, are all minor matters of differences of oppionion (even within the deobandi world) and I can respect a deobandi brothers decision to sit out during a mawlid or a halaqa dhikr. I fmy son grows up to be a hardcore deobandi, I will have no problem with that.

[Adwetyren]

can you find just normal sunni hanafi's who belive in sufism that do not belong to deobandi or barelvi?

As Salamu Alaykum

In my town we have some Hanafis who are neither part of the Deoband movement or Barelwi. I'm frankly tired of the Deoband vs Barelwi bickering that goes on in this forum. We have to ask ourselves...how does that get us closer to Allah Subhana wa ta'Ala? Does such debates benefit our akhira?

[Cajlwdvx]

As Salamu Alaykum

In my town we have some Hanafis who are neither part of the Deoband movement or Barelwi. I'm frankly tired of the Deoband vs Barelwi bickering that goes on in this forum. We have to ask ourselves...how does that get us closer to Allah Subhana wa ta'Ala? Does such debates benefit our akhira?

Denouncing and warning people from bid'ah is rewardable by Allah, insha'Allah.

[blodwarttufla]

there are gropu who are sunni but don't call themselves either names.

[MichaelfromSpace]

assalam alaikum

scholars of deoband are the students of classical hanafi scholars. their chain of knowledge with regards to hadith, fiqh and all islamic sciences reaches imam bukhari and imam abu hanifa and from there to Sayyiduna Abu Hurarira r.a and Abdullah ibn Masud r.a.

in theory their is no difference between a second century hanafi, third century hanafi, fourth century hanafi..............twelfth centruy hanafi and 13th, 14th and 15th century Deobandi. therefore Deobandi is a label for an indian muslim who is hanafi in madhab and ahlus-sunnah wal jamah in sect and similar to his brother in arab lands who is hanafi in madhab and ahlus-sunnah wal jamah in sect.

if we compile a list of top hanafi scholars from the times of imam abu hanifa to present day e.g for 2nd century it is Imam Abu Hanifa r.a and for third century it is Imam Tahawi r.a (i think) then the most probable name for fourteenth century top hanafi scholar is Imam Rasheed Ahmad Gangohi r.a (who is grand teacher of all scholars of Deoband). purpose of this discussion is to illustrate that imam rasheed ahmad, imam muhammad qasim and all the scholars of deoband are spiritual sons of imam abu hanifa just like shah walliullah, imam shami, mulla ali qari and imam ibn humam (mercy of Allah be upon them all) are, and all they are all on the same track.

[didrexx]

...It may seem like all hanafis are one or the other, but thaqt is mainly because most hanafis are from the indo-pak region, and they bring this deobandi/barlawi rivalry with them - and if you live in the region or you surround yourself with people from the region, you begin to live in a bubble, where you see every muslim you meet as falling into one of these (made up) categories.

The funny thing is if you ask an Arab or an Indonesian, or a Western Muslim which category they fall into, they usually have no idea what your talking about. I for one was Muslim for a good 8 or 9 years before I joined this forum, and for those 8 or 9 years I followed hanafi fiqh and had no idea what a deobandi or a barlawi was until you guys taught me - however learning about this divide really opened up my eyes and made a lot of things clear for me on why certain hanafi sufi Muslims had an idealogical beef with other sufi inclined hanafis.

So true! I had no idea about this divide between the two groups. Just as we are learning about deobandis and barlewis, they are learning about the possibility of other-than 'isms - could it be that the internet is what slowly 'unites' Muslims, evening out differences? (not so much a question as it is an observation).

[xyznicks]

How come in the arab world there is no barelvi and deobandi?

and just simple sufis? but I see that some arab scholars have similar views to barelwi but they still arent barelvi.
pretty confused

Because there is no Bareilly in Arabia...and no Deoband either.

[xyznicks]

Would you please highlight what would be the difference between "normal sunni Hanafi" Fiqh and "Deobandi Hanafi" Fiqh?

What's the difference between the two?

hmmm...bro 'Umar, the underlying understanding being that Deobandi Hanafi fiqh is abnormal sunni fiqh?
A cup of coffee for bro 'Umar, please.

[xyznicks]

assalam alaikum

scholars of deoband are the students of classical hanafi scholars. their chain of knowledge with regards to hadith, fiqh and all islamic sciences reaches imam bukhari and imam abu hanifa and from there to Sayyiduna Abu Hurarira r.a and Abdullah ibn Masud r.a.

in theory their is no difference between a second century hanafi, third century hanafi, fourth century hanafi..............twelfth centruy hanafi and 13th, 14th and 15th century Deobandi. therefore Deobandi is a label for an indian muslim who is hanafi in madhab and ahlus-sunnah wal jamah in sect and similar to his brother in arab lands who is hanafi in madhab and ahlus-sunnah wal jamah in sect.

if we compile a list of top hanafi scholars from the times of imam abu hanifa to present day e.g for 2nd century it is Imam Abu Hanifa r.a and for third century it is Imam Tahawi r.a (i think) then the most probable name for fourteenth century top hanafi scholar is Imam Rasheed Ahmad Gangohi r.a (who is grand teacher of all scholars of Deoband). purpose of this discussion is to illustrate that imam rasheed ahmad, imam muhammad qasim and all the scholars of deoband are spiritual sons of imam abu hanifa just like shah walliullah, imam shami, mulla ali qari and imam ibn humam (mercy of Allah be upon them all) are, and all they are all on the same track.

Shah Waliullah's name reminded me.........the scholars of Deoband are the followers of the Waliallahiyan tradition......As is often said Deoband Bazm_e_Waliallahi hai!