[Hsmrcahr]

1. Are all these just different names for the exact same thing? Or do each have some differences? If so, then what?
2. Do the Ahle-Hadith also count as sunni (Ahlus sunnat wal jamaat) or are they in their own separate sect?

Jazakallah

[Payodcapy542fro]

1. Are all these just different names for the exact same thing? Or do each have some differences? If so, then what?

salafi/wahabi/ahle hadith are same.

Ahle hadith and ghair muqallid are also same cause none of them follows any madhab.

some salafis are ghairmuqallid and some are muqallid.

Ahle hadith title is known for PK/ind continent and salafi for arabs. They got different qualities too. Like Ahle haidth of Ind/Pk waste time with fiqh debate, while salafis do care bit about more aqeedah than fiqh.

2. Do the Ahle-Hadith also count as sunni (Ahlus sunnat wal jamaat) or are they in their own separate sect?

They are still sunni, they hold some views which isnt according to the view of Ahle sunnah, still they arent out of ahle sunnah border.So if people asks for the example of ahne sunnah group , we cant refer to them first.

[DarrenBent]

salafi/wahabi/ahle hadith are same.

Ahle hadith and ghair muqallid are also same cause none of them follows any madhab.

some salafis are ghairmuqallid and some are muqallid.
They are still sunni, they hold some views which isnt according to the view of Ahle sunnah, still they arent out of ahle sunnah border.So if people asks for the example of ahne sunnah group , we cant refer to them first.

i am sorry, i have to differ from your answer

i think maudh khan can give the exact differentiation

[SQiTmhuY]

Assalamu aleikum

For be considered sunni you have to follow the Usool of a salaf, such as imam abu hanifah ra, imam malik ra, etc...

Salafis/Ghair Muqallids/wahhabis/ahlul hadiiz do not follow the Usool of the salaf, they follow a particular Usool which is all based in Quran and hadiz, so in my view thay are not sunnis.


salam aleikum

[DarrenBent]

Assalamu aleikum

For be considered sunni you have to follow the Usool of a salaf, such as imam abu hanifah ra, imam malik ra, etc...

Salafis/Ghair Muqallids/wahhabis/ahlul hadiiz do not follow the Usool of the salaf, they follow a particular Usool which is all based in Quran and hadiz, so in my view thay are not sunnis.


salam aleikum

sunni = ehle sunnah wal jamah

it says sunnah of Prophet , not salaf like Imam Abu hanfia or Imam Shafi, though they laid path to follow sunnah appropriately

[Zzvukttz]

1. Are all these just different names for the exact same thing? Or do each have some differences? If so, then what?
2. Do the Ahle-Hadith also count as sunni (Ahlus sunnat wal jamaat) or are they in their own separate sect?

1) 'Salafi' and 'Ahle-hadith' are positive terms.
'Wahabi' and 'Ghair Muqallid' are negative terms.

People who support Ibn Abdulwahab, Uthaymeen and Alabani call themselves Salafis and Ahle Hadith.

People who hate or oppose Ibn Abdulwahab, Uthaymeen and Alabani, refer to these people and their followers as Wahabis and Ghair Muqallids.

2) The Salafis have different beliefs / follow a different aqeedah (They call it the 'athari' aqeedah).
The Salafis also follow a different code of law, a code of law that is separate from any of the 4 established Madthabs. Much of their code of law is based on the works of Nasruddeen Albani so it would be safe to call them followers of the Albanni madhab.

Since both their beliefs and their code of law is different from normal Muslims, I wouldnt say they are very Sunni at all. If we do classify them as Sunni, we would call them fringe Sunnis or Extreme Sunnis.

[pobrierce]

From my observations, the Salafis/Ahle Hadeeth are on the opposite extreme end of the scale from the Barelvis. Where the Barelvis deem just about every common practice permissible, the Salafis/Ahle Hadeeth deem just about about every common practice as bid'ah, haraam or shirk.

Hardcore Salafis discussing Islam is truly a sight to behold...

"Tawassul? Shirk!"
"Tasawwuf? Bid'ah!"
"Taqleed? Haraam!"

I honestly haven't seen a more impetuous group of Muslims anywhere. It's like these people see something and the first thing that comes into their mind is to figure a way to how to call it impermissible in Islam.

[WrigleyMike]

arent the ahle hadith supposed quite on the right path? as they follow only that which they get out of the Quran and hadith?

[DarrenBent]

arent the ahle hadith supposed quite on the right path? as they follow only that which they get out of the Quran and hadith?

i am not eligible to answer if they are on right path or not

unfortunately they follow what they get out of it, while we have to follow, what we were taught to get out of it by Prophet

some argue, Allah says " Quran is made easy for you ". so why cant you understand by yourself

while the same Allah says in the same Quran, which nearly means " We have misled many with this quran "

thats the reason Prophet was sent to explain it and the Prophet said, "scholars are my inheritors" who will take farward his teachings.

so its un-imaginable that you take quran and understand it by yourself, if u do so, u will understand what you want, but not what Allah and his Prophet wants

[Piediahef]

Assalaam'aaleykum!

We have misled many with this quran I would love to see a reference for the Ayah that nearly means what you have quoted. Please!

[DarrenBent]

Assalaam'aaleykum!



I would love to see a reference for the Ayah that nearly means what you have quoted. Please!

سَأَصْرِفُ عَنْ ءَايَـتِي الَّذِينَ يَتَكَبَّرُونَ فِي الأَرْضِ بِغَيْرِ الْحَقِّ


I shall keep away from My verses those who show arrogance on the earth with no right to do so.(7.146) this is from Mufti Taqi sahab translation, you can check other versions too

i think there is also other verse, i am trying to search it

[pobrierce]

arent the ahle hadith supposed quite on the right path? as they follow only that which they get out of the Quran and hadith?

And Hanafis, Shaf'is, Malakis and Hanbalis don't?

I mean, what is it with people always assuming that the four madhahibs have their basis on something else other than the Qur'an and the Sunnah?

[Adwetyren]

As Salamu Alaykum


I think the term "Ahle Hadith" is a problematic term coined by the people of the indian subcontinent because historically, prior to the formulations of the four madhahib, the two main groups was Ahl Hadith of Hijaz and Ahl Ra'y of Iraq. Ahl Hadith was headed by Imam Malik ibn Anas.

I rather use the term Salafi or Wahhabi

[pobrierce]

Yes, the "Ahle Hadith" misnomer really is part of the problem, just like how "Ahle Qur'an" use their self chosen (but utterly undeserving) title to mislead people. It is what the scholars have termed كلمة الحق اريد بها الباطل.

[Payodcapy542fro]

i think there is also other verse, i am trying to search it

you must be refering to this one:

Inna Allaha la yastahyee an yadriba mathalan ma baAAoodatan fama fawqaha faamma allatheena amanoo fayaAAlamoona annahu alhaqqu min rabbihim waamma allatheena kafaroo fayaqooloona matha arada Allahu bihatha mathalan yudillu bihi katheeran wayahdee bihi katheeran wama yudillu bihi illa alfasiqeena[2:26]

Allah disdains not to use the similitude of things lowest as well as highest. Those who believe know that it is truth from their Lord; but those who reject Faith say: "What means Allah by this similitude?" By it He causes many to stray and many He leads into the right path but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the path).

[secondmertg]

Very often the following question is posed to many people: "Do you follow the Deen of Imam Abu Hanifa (R.A.) or the Deen of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam)?" "Obviously the Deen of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam)," comes the instant reply. The second question is then posed: "Why then do you call yourself a Hanafi?" The person not well versed is perplexed by this question. Doubts are then created in his mind. He soon starts gradually drifting towards the abandoning of taqleed i.e. following one of the four illustrious Imams viz. Imam Abu Hanifa (R.A.), Imam Shafi'i (R.A.), Imam Malik (R.A.) and Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (R.A.).
By means of the type of questions that have been mentioned above, a deliberate attempt is made to create a misconception in the minds of the unwary — that if you are a Hanafi, you are following the Deen of Imam Abu Hanifa (R.A.), NOT the Deen of Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wasallam). This is an absolute fallacy. Imam Abu Hanifa (R.A.), Imam Shafi'i (R.A.) and the other Imams did not invent any Deen of their own. They strictly followed the one and only Deen — the Deen of Islam brought by Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam). Their followers are hence also following the same Deen — the Deen of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam).
Why Follow an Imam?
The question that arises here is that why then should one follow any of the four Imams? This can be answered by posing a counter-question: "Do you know all the various laws of Deen? Are you capable of extracting and deriving the laws pertaining to wudu, salah, zakah, etc. directly from the Qur'an and Hadith? Do you know which Hadith has abrogated another? Do you have the ability to reconcile between the various Ahadith which apparently contradict each other? Do you know which verses of the Qur'an are general in their application and which verses are qualified by other texts? etc., etc." If one does not have the knowledge of these aspects, then one definitely does not have the ability to derive the laws directly from the Qur'an and Hadith. In that case the following aayah applies directly to oneself: "Ask those of knowledge if you do not know." (43:7) Hence when we do not have the enormous amount of knowledge and expertise that is necessary to derive the laws directly from the Qur'an and Hadith, we have opted to follow one of those great people who had attained that distinguished mastery in this field, among whom is Imam Abu Hanifa (R.A.). Imam Abu Hanifa (R.A.) is a Tabi'i (one who has seen a Sahabi). He attained the knowledge of Hadith from approximately 4000 teachers. His piety was such that for 40 years he performed fajr salah with the wudu of Isha salah (i.e. he did not sleep the entire night) [Tareekhul Baghdad]. His knowledge, brilliance and righteousness was such that all the great scholars of his time attested to his mastery. Thus one can be well assured that such a person is absolutely capable of deriving the laws directly from the Qur'an and Hadith.
Another reason for adopting one of the Imams as a guide is the following aayah of the Qur'an: Allah Ta'ala says: "And follow the path of those who turn to me" (31:15). In order to "turn" to Allah Ta'ala, two aspects are basic requisites — knowledge and practicing according to that knowledge. In this regard the four Imams were in an extremely high category. Imam Abu Hanifa (R.A.) was regarded by various Ulama of his time as being the most knowledgeable of the people of that era (footnotes of Tahdheebut Tahdheeb vol. 1 pg. 451). Makki bin Ibrahim, who was one of the renowned teachers of Imam Bukhari (R.A.), was a student of Imam Abu Hanifa (R.A.). Imam Abu Hanifa (R.A.) compiled a book of Hadith entitled "Kitabul Aathaar" from among 40,000 Ahadith. Thus those who follow such a guide can be satisfied that they are strictly following the commands of Allah Ta'ala and His Rasul (sallallahu alaihi wasallam).
Difference of Opinion
At this point somebody may ask: "If all the Imams deduced the laws directly from the Qur'an and Hadith, how is it possible for them to differ on various aspects?" In order to understand the reality of these differences, we will have to go back in history right upto the time of the Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhum).
Once Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) had just returned from a battle when he ordered the Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhum) to immediately proceed to the place of Banu Quraizah — a clan of Jews who lived on the outskirts of Madina Munawwarah. The purpose was to lay a siege upon them for having broken the pact that they had made with the Muslims. In order to impress the urgency of the matter upon the Sahaaba (R.A.), Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) said to them: "None of you should perform your salah al-Asr except in Banu Quraizah." While the Sahaaba (R.A.) were still en-route, the time of Asr arrived. Some Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhum) felt that they should perform their Asr immediately. They regarded the instruction of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) as actually being a command to proceed very swiftly to their destination. It did not imply that the Asr salah could not be performed en-route. They thus performed their salah there. Another group of Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhum.) viewed the instruction literally. They therefore continued and only performed their Asr salah after having reached Banu Quraizah. Later when Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) was informed about this, he did not rebuke either group. [Sahih Bukhaari]
Thus we find that the difference arose from a point of interpretation. However, this difference of interpretation is only entertained when it comes from a person who has in-depth knowledge of Deen and has attained a mastery in the Qur'an and Hadith and the other related aspects. At times a difference of opinion occurs due to the different narrations that are found with regards to a particular aspect. One Imam gives preference to one narration on the basis of various criteria while the other Imam, in the light of his knowledge, prefers the other narration. This is basically the manner in which these differences occur. However, just as Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) did not rebuke either of the two groups in the incident mentioned above, similarly since the Imams have attained the status of a mujtahid (one who is capable of deriving the laws directly from the Qur'an and Hadith), they will not be blame worthy even if they have erred. Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) is reported to have said: "When a haakim (ruler) passes judgement, and after having exerted his utmost effort he arrives at the correct solution, he gets a double reward. And if he errs after having exerted his utmost ability, he gets one reward." (Bukhari vol. 2 pg. 1092). Ibn al-Munzir (R.A.) while commenting on this Hadith writes that a ruler will only get this reward if he has thorough knowledge and in the light of his knowledge he passed judgement. (see footnotes of Sahih Bukhari; ibid). The four Imams had the ability and necessary knowledge to practice ijtihaad. Thus they fall under the ambit of this Hadith.