[movlabc]

on the topic wud be a bonus

[sportsbettinge]

so basicaly is everything preset up and created, has Allah already created it? or is Allah actively creating each second as the second passes by?

please tell me correct belief we are supposed to have regarding this no philosophies please i wud realy wud like to hear deobandi perspective on this.... and evidence, video or a article on the topic wud be a bonus

Everything has been Predestined. Belief in Predestination (Qadr) is one of the six articles of Faith of Islam. One have to be very very very careful while discussing about Qadr. Unnecessary discussion about this topic is disliked. As the details of Qadr is one of the secrets of Allah Ta'ala.

[movlabc]

yeah i kn0w i am n0t discussing qadr i just want t0 kn0w is Allah actively creating every second as it goes, or has it already been created?

[suiviouse]

what is the correct beliefs for sunni's:
all this time i looked at life like Allah created everything already us, etc. kind of like a video game its already done and finished and we can do what we want in the video game with out the video game maker having to make each action we do in the video game constantly while we do it. so tell me did i understand life wrong all this time? is the reality that each second that is passing by Allah is creating it as the second passes by he is creating each of our actions, attributes imagination as the second passes by? is this the correct belief or can you explain which is the right way to explain this please? (thank you)

so basicaly is everything preset up and created, has Allah already created it? or is Allah actively creating each second as the second passes by?

please tell me correct belief we are supposed to have regarding this no philosophies please i wud realy wud like to hear deobandi perspective on this.... and evidence, video or a article on the topic wud be a bonus

Wal qadri khairihi wa sharrihi minallahi taala - thats all you need to believe in for this topic.

[Tribas4u]

Its not like a video game. Every moment is being created by God. You might be aware that at subatomic level everything goes in and out of existance.

Secondly, God is not in time. Therefore, past, present and future does not apply to God.

[movlabc]

Its not like a video game. Every moment is being created by God. You might be aware that at subatomic level everything goes in and out of existance.

Secondly, God is not in time. Therefore, past, present and future does not apply to God.

u g0t evidence f0r this a vide0, a article, anything i can get a understanding from?

[movlabc]

Its not like a video game. Every moment is being created by God. You might be aware that at subatomic level everything goes in and out of existance.

Secondly, God is not in time. Therefore, past, present and future does not apply to God.

where can i find any website 0r m0re inf0 0n this?

[Tribas4u]

There's no particular website specific about this. But you can perhaps find in the following website: http://www.actualevidence.com

when going theough the articles.

The fact that Allah is not in time is because time is based on existance of change. Change leads to moments/time. This is not apllicable to God because change is temporal and temporal cannot be eternal. In other words, change contains a movement from non-existance to existance, making it a creation.

The reality of every single thing being created by God, (unlike the case of a mechanical object that works on its own after creation by humans), is called occassionalism.

[12ZHeWZa]

Secondly, God is not in time. Therefore, past, present and future does not apply to God.

I have a query with regards to this statement.

The Prophet said: "Whoever argues in support of something that is wrong and he knows it Allah will be angry with him until he stops." (sahih)
So Allah is Angry in a way that is not like a human's anger until such a point as a person stops doing something, and then He is not Angry with that person.

Similar is the Qur'anic ayah:

وَمَا قَدَرُواْ اللَّهَ حَقَّ قَدْرِهِ وَالاٌّرْضُ جَمِيعـاً قَبْضَـتُهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَـمَةِ وَالسَّمَـوَتُ مَطْوِيَّـتٌ بِيَمِينِهِ سُبْحَـنَهُ وَتَعَالَى عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ So has this already happened? Or what? Because the ayah indicates something that has not been done yet and it will be done...

Or this hadith, which states:

Laqeet bin Saburah narrates that the Messenger of Allah said: "Our Lord laughs over the despair of His slaves, when relief is so close."

So he (Laqeet) said: "O Messenger of Allah! And does the Lord laugh?"

He replied: "Na'am. (Yes.)"

Laqeet said: "We will never give up hope in receiving good from a Lord who laughs!" ^so this is a 'when' established in a hadith concerning an action of Allah, Most High, and it indicates that this occurs at a point...

Frankly, I am very confused with regards to this issue, perhaps you can enlighten me with a saying of the Sahabah in regards to this or something, .

[Tribas4u]

walaikum assalaam

Just as you negated similarity with humans in Allah getting "angry", same applies to the question you put forth. Allah's actions would not be like humans subjected to time or temporailty whereby as you see in human actions there is a beginning and end. Allah's action do not have beginning and end. They happen outside the bounds of time or any notion of time. The howness cannot be known. But in our temporal world they are explained in a way that we grasp the subject, not the howness of Allah. When Allah removes the veil from us in the akhirah, we will come to grasp the reality. But to us what is satisfactory to know is that Allah shows wrath at so and actions or time "of humans or Allah shows mercy at so and so action of humans. The points that you refer to is directed at humans. The perspective of time in the subject is of humans. The "when" is of humans. When I do so and so at that point Allah's wrath is directed at me. When I do so and so at that point Allah's mercy is showered upon me. As Allah is unlike us, therefore, we should not drag that time factor to God Himself whereby we assume God is going through time like us and thereby God's action take place like us at so and so time. The time factor is for human realm.

[movlabc]

There's no particular website specific about this. But you can perhaps find in the following website: http://www.actualevidence.com

when going theough the articles.

The fact that Allah is not in time is because time is based on existance of change. Change leads to moments/time. This is not apllicable to God because change is temporal and temporal cannot be eternal. In other words, change contains a movement from non-existance to existance, making it a creation.

The reality of every single thing being created by God, (unlike the case of a mechanical object that works on its own after creation by humans), is called occassionalism.

i looked this up on wikipedia about occasionalism i need to know if this is a theory of gazahali etc. cuz i heard he was into philosphy, and philosophy is garbage and i don't want no philopsophy's here i just want to know what the majority main stream ahlus sunnah wal jammah view this? has everything already been created or is every second that passes by being created by Allah as the second passes by? what is required for us to believe can we believe either one or which one is required to believe?

[Tribas4u]

i looked this up on wikipedia about occasionalism i need to know if this is a theory of gazahali etc. cuz i heard he was into philosphy, and philosophy is garbage and i don't want no philopsophy's here i just want to know what the majority main stream ahlus sunnah wal jammah view this? has everything already been created or is every second that passes by being created by Allah as the second passes by? what is required for us to believe can we believe either one or which one is required to believe?

Ahlus sunnah agree upon this. He used philosophy to respond to Greek "garbage" philosophy.

Your question is implying "past" or "present". But both don't apply to God. Allah is beyond that. Neither past present or future. Occassionalism is not about this. Its about Allah directly being the sole creator and power and there is no secondary or material causes. It is not even required for you to ponder on these matters.

[12ZHeWZa]

walaikum assalaam

Just as you negated similarity with humans in Allah getting "angry",

So out of curiosity, are you saying Allah does not 'get angry?' because you're both saying that Allah's actions are independent in their entirety of time, so He, in your equation, could not possibly acquire a state of Anger with regards to a person and then stop being Angry with that person, so why is the hadith worded that way that gives the impression that Allah is angry with someone when he does something and then He is not angry with them when that action is concluded?

The rest of your statements do not really make any sense to me, because it kind of sounds like you're saying that the Prophet was explaining things in such a way that unintelligent people can understand them. But intelligent people know x, y, z. Is that what you're trying to get across?

Who said Allah was going through time? Allah is eternal. He is not 'subject' to time in that sense.

And the last part, so you're saying Allah directs His Wrath at you at one point and then directs His Mercy at you at another point.

But if you say He does not have Actions which He does that interact with time at all, then He would be Wrathful w/r/t yourself at all points, not just at one point, or else you'd be arguing for a multiplicity in a series of His Attributes with regards to yourself. In your equation, it would not be possible for Allah to be Angry with you at one point and then no longer be Angry, because that would necessitate, according to your doctrine, change in His Essence.

But Allah's Actions DO take place at such and such time. The Prophet said:

"On the Day of Resurrection, The Day of Resurrection has not happened yet.

Allah will grasp the whole (planet of) earth (by His Hand)

and shall roll up the heaven with His right Hand and say,

'I am the King.
Where are the kings of the earth?" ^unless the above already happened?

Did Allah speak to Musa at one point, or is He still speaking to Musa ?

[Tribas4u]

Its a contridiction in principle to first say Allah is not angry like us and then turn around and say or imply Allah acts like us. This should be clear to you too. If you agree Allah's actions are not like us then the negation of time or beginning or end to His actions follows.

As for what you quote, the time factor applies to us. Allah did create me so and so days ago and sustains me today and revealed the Quran at so and so age at so and so time at so and so place. All of this applies to created realm because we are in the created realm. But for Allah time does not apply. Allah will get angry and not get angry just as Allah can will to create as well as will not to create. None of those actions are that which begin or end. Nor does creating and destroying equate to two different sequential moments. Similarily neither should you suppose Allah's action whether angry or anything else as two different sequential moments occurring one after another upon Allah Himself whereby one action goes into nonexistance and another action comes into existance. These are notions you implicitly think leading to your questions and the basis of it, if you carefully notice, is likening Allah with creation. When these notions are negated, the questions are no longer having any applicability upon Allah.

Just because you can't grasp how Allah can act without thinking of time does not prove anything. On the contrary imagining it proves that it would be wrong, as what you imagine would be what you have seen in creation. And Allah being the Creator is unlike it.

[movlabc]

u brothers are going to deep into this now, it sounds like philosophy's humans can't comprehend Allah or begin to understand him, or imagine him so to talk about Allah in this fashion is not correct, don't speak something of Allah that u are not sure about. we believe in Allah as he is period all this other stuff u guys talking about leave it to the one who knows (Allah)

"i ask the moderators to please close this thread down i asked a question and my question i got a answer as much as i would get from this forum, so please delete the thread moderators"

[12ZHeWZa]

Look, I'm not saying "I cannot imagine except that this action is in time, so that means Allah does x."

I'm saying "The hadith says such and such, the ayah says such and such, so it means what it says."

The words indicate a sequence of events. You're interpolating a whole bunch of assumptions based on your reading of "There is nothing like unto Him." On the other hand, there is no reason to negate what the texts state on the basis that you think X Y or Z are not applicable, because even in your equation Allah interacts with time- you said "Allah created me so and so days ago." That's interaction with time whether you say it is or not- an action that occured and it is not currently occuring. Unless Allah is still creating you in your mother's womb even now?

How does it follow that it is necessary that you negate that Allah does action X and then action Y as He pleases? He creates as He pleases, He does as He pleases, He is not limited. Who says He acts like us? Where did I say that? What kind of ridiculous things are you adding to my statements?

This is not likening Allah with the creation, it is simply taking what the hadith say and not adding to it or explaining it. "Allah laughs when,"

[Ufkkrxcq]

Let me put it like this....simple for me and everyone else....Allah set everything in place and then put it into motion. We are going through this motion, and Allah provides "edits" to this motion when he wills.

Also to stop other's being confused...although time doesn't apply to Allah this doesn't mean Allah can't observe time pass.

[Tribas4u]

[quote]Look, I'm not saying "I cannot imagine except that this action is in time, so that means Allah does x."

I'm saying "The hadith says such and such, the ayah says such and such, so it means what it says."

The words indicate a sequence of events. You're interpolating a whole bunch of assumptions based on your reading of "There is nothing like unto Him." On the other hand, there is no reason to negate what the texts state on the basis that you think X Y or Z are not applicable, because even in your equation Allah interacts with time- you said "Allah created me so and so days ago." That's interaction with time whether you say it is or not- an action that occured and it is not currently occuring. Unless Allah is still creating you in your mother's womb even now?

How does it follow that it is necessary that you negate that Allah does action X and then action Y as He pleases? He creates as He pleases, He does as He pleases, He is not limited. Who says He acts like us? Where did I say that? What kind of ridiculous things are you adding to my statements?

This is not likening Allah with the creation, it is simply taking what the hadith say and not adding to it or explaining it. "Allah laughs when,"

[movlabc]

Let me put it like this....simple for me and everyone else....Allah set everything in place and then put it into motion. We are going through this motion, and Allah provides "edits" to this motion when he wills.

Also to stop other's being confused...although time doesn't apply to Allah this doesn't mean Allah can't observe time pass.

br0 s0 u are saying 0pp0site 0f what br0ther warea has said d0 u have article, evidence, vide0 0r anything f0r m0re inf0 0n this that its already set and in m0ti0n i wanna kn0w which way is right can u pr0vide s0me website 0r s0mething 0n this t0pic it wud be apreciated

[Vapepreab]

This sounds like a discussion that has morphed into a query on Al Qada wal Qadar.

These types of discussions are NOT advantageous to those who have NOT studied it with an alim, especially not a young Muslim with doubts about his Deen.


Sunnibrother,
if you have not amassed knowledge regarding matters of the senses, how then are you pondering about matters beyond the senses?

You are a young man. You will need to develop a sound understanding based on true knowledge and how it applies from authentic ulama.

Many of us have already spent 100s if not 1000s of hours sitting with ulama and their students, discussing and then studying and then returning to them and discussing more. While internet forums are an excellent form of communication, face-to-face forums/halaqas/bayans are best.

And the best understanding is : laa haula walaa quwatta illa billah.