[Voitramma]

How do other tariqah allow woman to take bayah?

http://www.sufismus-online.de/BayatK...IslamicClothes

Q: People object on your hands being kissed.

S.N: I am not a sultan. Let people go and kiss their hands! These people are envious, because they are not giving full respect to their Lord. If they were, people would respect them. Maybe I am respected in the Divine Presence and that is why people run up to me. I am not begging people to come up to me and to kiss my hands! They rush on me from all over the world and I do not tell them to go away. Why should I? Are my hands dirty? If they were I would prevent it.
But the hands of the people who oppose this are dirty with their dirty works. When people come close to a blessed person they feel familiarity and want to kiss and embrace. When a person wants to show their respect by kissing the hand it is not prohibited in the Islamic Shariah. No-one can bring any evidence that Muhammad* did not allow it.

Q: But not only men are kissing your hand, but women too. Is that allowed in Islam?

S.N: Do they have evidence on that? If that was prohibited we would not be allowed to approach our women. They have no fiqr. (Quran, Surat 4, Ayat 43 and Surat 5, Ayat 6). You may touch.

Q: For the mahram, or...?

S.N: ...an Nissa, is alif lam a sign for all women, or just for some? There is a secret reality there: You can touch a lady, but if your ego awakes with a bad desire it is prohibited. A person may touch his daughter or his mother and it is not prohibited. He may touch his wife and it could be prohibited. Nothing awakes in a person with his mahram, but if it is not a mahram it is dangerous. That is why the Shariah prevents you to touch without a reason. Otherwise a doctor couldn't touch the body of a woman. No-one objects to the millions of ladies who every day go to the doctor and show everything. It did not exist at the time of the Prophet*. When they give birth they show themselves completely! How can that be? Why do people not complain about that? Instead they come to me, a person who is 80 years old!
The Shariah does give the permission for the hands of prophets and their inheritors to be kissed. I do not tell the ladies to come and kiss my hand. No! They come to give their respects. I cannot refuse it, because I am calling Europeans, non Muslims, into Islam. They are still new and if I would prevent them from kissing my hand their hearts would be broken. They would accuse Islam of having no gentleness. We are not living in Saudi Arabia, Libya, Algeria, Turkey, Iran or in Pakistan! I am calling people here, in Europe. This is why we can use the methods which the Prophet* was using at the beginning of Islam. People at that time were also not using scarves. For the first 13 years in Mecca, they were mixing freely with men and not wearing scarves. All that came in Medina. The people who are accusing me of these points have no understanding of Islam. They are scholars, but empty!

[treawittelf]

oh dear! Allah guide us all...Aameen

[paralelogram]

(Ibn 'Ajiba: ) Someone said to Junayd,
"There is a group who claim they arrive to a state in which legal responsibility no longer applies to them."
"They have arrived," he replied, "but to hell"
(Iqaz al-himam fi sharh al-Hikam ,210).

[Inettypofonee]

These psuedo sufis provide fuel to psuedo salafis to bark against sufism

[Inconykic]

(Ibn 'Ajiba: ) Someone said to Junayd,
"There is a group who claim they arrive to a state in which legal responsibility no longer applies to them."
"They have arrived," he replied, "but to hell"
(Iqaz al-himam fi sharh al-Hikam ,210).

Assalamu alaykum

If they call these non-mahrams as their sisters and mothers, then let these shaykhs share their wealth with them. Sisters have share in their parents property.

[pennadyFeet]

Salam 'Aleykum,

He thinks he's royalty?

The way he talks alone shows that he has no fear of Allah, let alone being from the Awliyaa al-Saliheen.

[IrrettelatWet]

taking bayt off women by touching their hands is haram. the method of doing bayt with a women is by holding a cloth. the sheikh holds one side and the women holds the other end

[Hmwmzian]

This fool thinks himself to be better than Rasoolullah .

[Theorsell]

May Allah save us.

[ValdisSeroff]

Assalamu alaykum

If they call these non-mahrams as their sisters and mothers, then let these shaykhs share their wealth with them. Sisters have share in their parents property.

he doesnt claim they are mahram he claims to have derived a secret interpretation of the qur'an which allows toucvhing without desire of non mahram women:

Q: But not only men are kissing your hand, but women too. Is that allowed in Islam?

S.N: Do they have evidence on that? If that was prohibited we would not be allowed to approach our women. They have no fiqr. (Quran, Surat 4, Ayat 43 and Surat 5, Ayat 6). You may touch.

Q: For the mahram, or...?

S.N: ...an Nissa, is alif lam a sign for all women, or just for some? There is a secret reality there: You can touch a lady, but if your ego awakes with a bad desire it is prohibited. A person may touch his daughter or his mother and it is not prohibited. He may touch his wife and it could be prohibited. Nothing awakes in a person with his mahram, but if it is not a mahram it is dangerous. That is why the Shariah prevents you to touch without a reason. Otherwise a doctor couldn't touch the body of a woman. No-one objects to the millions of ladies who every day go to the doctor and show everything. It did not exist at the time of the Prophet*. When they give birth they show themselves completely! How can that be? Why do people not complain about that? Instead they come to me, a person who is 80 years old!
The Shariah does give the permission for the hands of prophets and their inheritors to be kissed. I do not tell the ladies to come and kiss my hand. No! They come to give their respects. I cannot refuse it, because I am calling Europeans, non Muslims, into Islam. They are still new and if I would prevent them from kissing my hand their hearts would be broken. They would accuse Islam of having no gentleness. We are not living in Saudi Arabia, Libya, Algeria, Turkey, Iran or in Pakistan! I am calling people here, in Europe. This is why we can use the methods which the Prophet* was using at the beginning of Islam. People at that time were also not using scarves. For the first 13 years in Mecca, they were mixing freely with men and not wearing scarves. All that came in Medina. The people who are accusing me of these points have no understanding of Islam. They are scholars, but empty!

[ValdisSeroff]

how does he even have any followers left. his followers believe he is ALL KNOWING (no exageration they literally believe he possesses complete knowledge of everythign include sercret things) and yet according to him there should have been a sultan by last month

[Frannypaync]

Did he seriously say all those things? Is the site made by a student of his or something?

[Hmwmzian]

taking bayt off women by touching their hands is haram. the method of doing bayt with a women is by holding a cloth. the sheikh holds one side and the women holds the other end

And even that is not necessary because Rasoolullah was known for having taken the bayt from women by words alone.

[pennadyFeet]

how does he even have any followers left. his followers believe he is ALL KNOWING (no exageration they literally believe he possesses complete knowledge of everythign include sercret things) and yet according to him there should have been a sultan by last month

Salam 'Aleykum,

I've heard on al-Jazeerah that this guy has more power/influence than the president of a country.

His followers would jump off a bridge if he told them to.

[awagsFare]

How do other tariqah allow woman to take bayah?

http://www.sufismus-online.de/BayatK...IslamicClothes

Q: People object on your hands being kissed.

S.N: I am not a sultan. Let people go and kiss their hands! These people are envious, because they are not giving full respect to their Lord. If they were, people would respect them. Maybe I am respected in the Divine Presence and that is why people run up to me. I am not begging people to come up to me and to kiss my hands! They rush on me from all over the world and I do not tell them to go away. Why should I? Are my hands dirty? If they were I would prevent it.
But the hands of the people who oppose this are dirty with their dirty works. When people come close to a blessed person they feel familiarity and want to kiss and embrace. When a person wants to show their respect by kissing the hand it is not prohibited in the Islamic Shariah. No-one can bring any evidence that Muhammad* did not allow it.

Q: But not only men are kissing your hand, but women too. Is that allowed in Islam?

S.N: Do they have evidence on that? If that was prohibited we would not be allowed to approach our women. They have no fiqr. (Quran, Surat 4, Ayat 43 and Surat 5, Ayat 6). You may touch.

Q: For the mahram, or...?

S.N: ...an Nissa, is alif lam a sign for all women, or just for some? There is a secret reality there: You can touch a lady, but if your ego awakes with a bad desire it is prohibited. A person may touch his daughter or his mother and it is not prohibited. He may touch his wife and it could be prohibited. Nothing awakes in a person with his mahram, but if it is not a mahram it is dangerous. That is why the Shariah prevents you to touch without a reason. Otherwise a doctor couldn't touch the body of a woman. No-one objects to the millions of ladies who every day go to the doctor and show everything. It did not exist at the time of the Prophet*. When they give birth they show themselves completely! How can that be? Why do people not complain about that? Instead they come to me, a person who is 80 years old!
The Shariah does give the permission for the hands of prophets and their inheritors to be kissed. I do not tell the ladies to come and kiss my hand. No! They come to give their respects. I cannot refuse it, because I am calling Europeans, non Muslims, into Islam. They are still new and if I would prevent them from kissing my hand their hearts would be broken. They would accuse Islam of having no gentleness. We are not living in Saudi Arabia, Libya, Algeria, Turkey, Iran or in Pakistan! I am calling people here, in Europe. This is why we can use the methods which the Prophet* was using at the beginning of Islam. People at that time were also not using scarves. For the first 13 years in Mecca, they were mixing freely with men and not wearing scarves. All that came in Medina. The people who are accusing me of these points have no understanding of Islam. They are scholars, but empty!

This is totally ridiculous.

[ValdisSeroff]

Salam 'Aleykum,

I've heard on al-Jazeerah that this guy has more power/influence than the president of a country.

His followers would jump off a bridge if he told them to.

thats why its important for us to prioritise in terms of removing deviant sects from the ummah and prioritise sects like his. he comes after ithna ashariyyah in priority in my oppinion, wallahu a'lam. we must work for the unification of the ummah inshallah by removing sects as far away as these guys. with hikmah and evidences inshallah and good manners

[rojettafoxx]

Q: According to the Hanafi school what are the rules of a woman touching you without desires? Would you need an ablution?

S.N: All the four schools of thought were going to agree on this point, but then Imam Shafi prevented it. He wanted to close the door of fitna which arises through young people touching each other. Abu Hanifa gave the permission under a condition: if your feelings do not change and become haram, it is all right. If they do, it is prohibited in the school of Abu Hanifa too. When feelings change, our body awakens and we discharge, making our wudu invalid.

Is there any weight to this?

[RerRoktoido]

Is there any weight to this?

just more reasons i cant take this guy seriously

[Theorsell]

Did he seriously say all those things? Is the site made by a student of his or something?

This brother has brought up a good point.

Anyone know?

[awagsFare]

Hakeem ul Ummat Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi (ra) has said it is not permissible for shaikh to touch hands with a female when taking bayah. And he cited the hadith from Muslim and Bukhari in which Hazrat Aisha (ra) mentions that Nabi Kareem salallahu alayhi wa sallam never touched a strange woman in his life.

Jaahil Durvesh say that veil is only of the heart and that is ok to touch females and so on and so forth and they bring many ridiculous arguments to support them - this is only their inner most vain desire that they are speaking of. In the early days mashaikheen used to only take verbal bayah from females. Only later on did they start using a piece of cloth. The shaikh sits on one side of the veil and holds the cloth and the female with her mehram sits on the other side of the veil and holds the other end of the cloth and bayah is done like this. Even this is not necessary, verbal bayah is enough. It is extremely important to adopt veil between shaikh and mureedah. The ayat often used by mashaikheen first mentions adopting taqwa and then mentions "kunu ma-as-sadiqeen" - adopting taqwa is primary duty.