[RildFiemodo]

That's right when everything else fails, throw the Quran at them.

[Saad Khan]

That's right when everything else fails, throw the Quran at them.

4:65 But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.

[egoldhyip]

السلام عليكم

Why are people arguing?

~

The issue isn't whether being gay is genetic or not, it may be, it may not be. The important thing is it is not something that Allah SWT dislikes and is prohibited. A person who has these desires who refrains from acting on them will be rewarded just as the straight men and women will be for guarding themselves against normal zina. In fact, I would argue that the homosexual possibly has a greater reward (Allahu A'lam) because a straight man has the ability to get married and fulfill his desires in a halaal manner. A homosexual doesn't have that chance and has to either change his sexuality (very rare, especially if it does turn out it is something influenced by genetics) or live a life of celibacy and battle with his desires his whole life. For that reason I really do think the gay Muslims out there who refrain from sexual contact or looks at other men really should be applauded and supported. Unfortunately this is not the case.

Finally, I remember years ago when the genetics argument came out and Muslims across the globe argued that it would be unfair on a homosexual to have no say over his sexuality due to his genes. Incidentally, I was also one of those Muslims. We should realise that it is immense arrogance and ignorance to say that Allah SWT would not do something without proof from Quran/Sunnah. If Allah SWT decides to test someone by making them gay genetically, it is similar to the person who is born blind, or deaf, or with cystic fybrosis, or whatever affliction they have from birth. It is their particular trial which Allah SWT has decided to put them through and we should respect that and help those individuals.

و عليكم السلام

[nTDsD0aU]

Junaid al-Baghdadi said: "A man is not to be blamed for his nature. However, he is to be blamed for acting according to his nature." (paraphrased)

end discussion.

[egoldhyip]

Junaid al-Baghdadi said: "A man is not to be blamed for his nature. However, he is to be blamed for acting according to his nature." (paraphrased)

end discussion.

السلام عليكم

jazaakallah khayran for that paraphrase. I really liked it, Inshaa Allah I will use it in future as it has many broad applications if we reflect over it.

و عليكم السلام

[tearidrusydet]

Is it possible to be gay & Muslim? I don't support homosexuality I'm just trying to find the answer. Yes. But you cannot act on it. It is like a man having desire for a woman he is not married to. It is a trial, just as others are tested with poverty, illness, loss of family, war etc. Struggling against it is jihad and rewarded.

[abouthotels]

I don’t think we are born gay but we can develop ‘gay’ feelings and desires if we don’t control what we see and hear. That’s why men are not allowed to look at nude men (not just women) and women at nude women. The shuyukh took it a step further and refrained from even looking at the faces of handsome boys. I’m sure if we did a survey we’d find that a big chunk ‘gays’ indulged in looking at haram pictures, videos etc before they chose to be ‘gay’. Then as they persisted in that, Allah SWT took away their natural desire for the opposite gender (see brother amr’s post).

Being gay isn ot genetic or natural like being born deaf or blind. If it is then why was the crime of Lut (AS)’s people unprecedented and so shocking? Surely homosexuality would have been present alongside the presence of birth defects like blindness and deafness in previous nations if that were the case.

I also think its possible for someone just not to have feelings for the opposite gender but that doesn’t mean theyre attracted to their own gender by default theough they themselves might believe that.

Finally, let our Muslims never despair of their condition; there’s always endless hope for even the most sinful of sinners amongst us. Let them make tawbah insha Allah and do mujahidah against those attractions they feel until Allah SWT finally removes it from their hearts or they die in that mujaahadah forwhich Allah SWT will reward them fantastically.
Walahu a’lam

May Allah SWT protect us and help our brothers and sisters who have wronged themselves. Amin everyone. Barak Allah

[RildFiemodo]

4:65 But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.

That's right , sit in front of ur book and look for the verses. Now put your sword back in its cover you one liner. I have read it all most probably before you were born and heard it all before. You make sure you preach what you teach!

Conclusion: it is also disliked in Islam to get knowledge in Islam just to show off. Now goodbye.

[voksveta]

Where is this so-called gay gene? Which chromosome is it located on and what is it's specific locus? Where are the conclusive studies to prove it?

[Evoryboypoto]

I find that in many of these debates people wish to use their intellect over divine revelation. Intellect has its place, but it is fallible when compared to the divine knowlege of Allah.

[RildFiemodo]

What you are saying is beyond my acceptance of what a homosexual person is. Being a homosexual is not a choice for most people unlike someone who just want to get their rocks off. That's another topic. I know mullahs who do that. One will never understand unless you are in ones shoe. I bet you if you are a child born with those feelings it will come out as you develop. Many have tried to bury this feeling for years, get married and have kids and they still fail. As I said it doesn't have to be someone who watches filthy movies or other western influences that causes them to be gays. Do you think people choose to be called Gandu or poofter or ******s or whatever you call it in Arabic. I'm pretty sure they have a word for it. Do you think someone had a choice they would like people to call them despicable names. There is no understanding in this matter amongst the Muslim community. Not very much. God forbid if one of your child was to be born as one. I have no idea how your perception would be. I am not condoning Homosexuality here. I know it is a sin. I have read that and understood that. But just to throw quranic verses and one liners is just so cowardly. I am not referring to you brother high hopes. It is just upsetting when you would like to discuss things at the first thing they do here is throw the verses at you. Oh people of Allah, don't be so arrogant with your views and stop throwing verses around. You are not the only learned ones around and seek other knowledge besides the Quran. Broaden your Horizon. Expand your mind.

Goodbye

[RildFiemodo]

Why don' t you look it up dear. I bet you if you try hard enough you'll find it. The world of knowledge is at your expanse. Seek and you'll find it.

[RildFiemodo]

Who say about gene. It is called chromosomes. Gay is a terminology used just like people like to call other poofs, ******s, Gandu whatever.

[voksveta]

Who say about gene. It is called chromosomes. Gay is a terminology used just like people like to call other poofs, ******s, Gandu whatever.

There is enough evidences to prove that males can have more female chromosomes which makes them have feminine characteristics and desires as same as women and vice versa. I don't intend on saying that a person is born a homosexual but it is how it ends up when two of a kind meet up. It may not be natural for someone You are making statements about human physiology which you clearly have no knowledge of. In large part, chromosomes are made up of genes. This is why I asked the rhetorical question in my first post, where is the gay gene(s) located? Which chromosomes? There's nothing to look up because there is no such gene.

As amr123 already explained, you are conflating homosexuality with chromosomal aneuploidy. When a male happens to have an extra X-chromosome, it's a rare condition known as Klinefelter's. Look it up. It has nothing to do with homosexuality.

You haven't even articulated a coherent argument up until this point in the discussion. Do you have one? Or are you just angry? Quandary's first post was quite nice and balanced. Perhaps you should go back and read it.

[RildFiemodo]

You are making statements about human physiology which you clearly have no knowledge of. In large part, chromosomes are made up of genes. This is why I asked the rhetorical question in my first post, where is the gay gene(s) located? Which chromosomes? There's nothing to look up because there is no such gene.

As amr123 already explained, you are conflating homosexuality with chromosomal aneuploidy. When a male happens to have an extra X-chromosome, it's a rare condition known as Klinefelter's. Look it up. It has nothing to do with homosexuality.

You haven't even articulated a coherent argument up until this point in the discussion. Do you have one? Or are you just angry? Quandary's first post was quite nice and balanced. Perhaps you should go back and read it.

Please google what makes people gay - The Boston Globe

[nTDsD0aU]

Ok, so let's assume that people have gay urges because of the expression of their chromosomes.

However, you're wrong to take environment entirely out of the equation... there is no clear line in the nature/nurture debate which says flatly 'this is biological, you're enslaved to this particular expression of your genetics...'

and it does not make it permissible, as you have acknowledged, the nature of the man is not an excuse for acting according to it, nor an excuse for anything but striving against this impermissible urge to the utmost while maintaing hope and fear of Allah .

gaymuslims dot org is a site run by a brother who agrees with these points very clearly.

[Evoryboypoto]

Next you will be saying that there is a gene, which predisposes one to bestiality and peadophilia. Where does it all end, I ask? Secondly, your tone suggests that you have the courage to stand before Allah, the creator, on the day of judgement and say: 'despite the banning of homosexuality, I was pre-disposed to it.' Brother, I have OCD and I certainly wouldn't have the courage to use that on the day of judgement as an excuse for neglectiong my Salah. The answer is to search for an Islamic cure to this illness.

[RildFiemodo]

Next you will be saying that there is a gene, which predisposes one to bestiality and peadophilia. Where does it all end, I ask? Secondly, your tone suggests that you have the courage to stand before Allah, the creator, on the day of judgement and say: 'despite the banning of homosexuality, I was pre-disposed to it.' Brother, I have OCD and I certainly wouldn't have the courage to use that on the day of judgement as an excuse for neglectiong my Salah. The answer is to search for an Islamic cure to this illness.

Did I even say that I am a homosexual. I don't think so. You just jump out of your seats that quickly. What are the fatwas for learned clerics who take sexual advantages of little boys. Nobody talks about them. It's all hush hush. I fear Allah every single day. There's no doubt about that. You are making assumptions that I am defying Allah . That is not what the discussion is here. I have said a few times already I am not condoning homosexuality. I,m sorry this discussion board is a bit to narrow for me . Does everyone here live in a box and have a one track mind.

[nTDsD0aU]

Did I even say that I am a homosexual. I don't think so. You just jump out of your seats that quickly. What are the fatwas for learned clerics who take sexual advantages of little boys. Nobody talks about them. It's all hush hush. I fear Allah every single day. There's no doubt about that. You are making assumptions that I am defying Allah . That is not what the discussion is here. I have said a few times already I am not condoning homosexuality. I,m sorry this discussion board is a bit to narrow for me . Does everyone here live in a box and have a one track mind.

This is a topic which is very much difficult for you to discuss, because of past experiences. Perhaps you should engage in discussing other things?

I quite agree that anyone who sexually molests young boys is not fit to run a school that educates them, that much is for certain. I do not know what the punishment is upon such people, though, Allahu alim.

[Saad Khan]

Does everyone here live in a box and have a one track mind.

37:128 Save single-minded slaves of Allah