| Reply to Thread New Thread |
01-05-2012, 01:36 AM
|
#1 |
|
|
 Prophecy about those who reject Hadith
Bismillah,
al-Salamu 'Aleykum, Due to the increasing amount those ignorant new Muslims rejecting the orders of their Master Rassul-Allah SAWS, I'll be quoting this prophecy with its Takhreej. The prophet SAWS said: لا ألفين أحدكم متكئا على أريكته يأتيه الأمر من أمري مما أمرت به أو نهيت عنه فيقول لا ندري ما وجدنا في كتاب الله اتبعناه "Let me not find one of you reclining on his couch, when he hears something regarding me which I have commanded or forbidden and saying: We do not know. What we found in Allah's Book we have followed." Some other wordings: Ahmad, Abu Dawood and al-Haakim reported with a saheeh isnaad from al-Miqdaam that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Soon there will be a time when a man will be reclining on his couch, narrating a hadeeth from me, and he will say, ‘Between us and you is the Book of Allaah: what it says is halaal, we take as halaal, and what it says is haraam, we take as haraam.’ But listen! Whatever the Messenger of Allaah forbids is like what Allaah forbids.” (Al-Fath al-Kabeer, 3/438. Al-Tirmidhi reported it with different wording, and said that it is hasan saheeh. Sunan al-Tirmidhi bi Sharh Ibn al-‘Arabi, al-Saawi edn., 10/132). Al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah, may Allaah be pleased with him, reported that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Would any of you think, reclining on his couch, that Allaah would only describe what is forbidden in the Qur’aan? I tell you, by Allaah, that I have warned and commanded and prohibited things that are as important as what is in the Qur’aan, if not more so.” (Reported by Abu Dawud, Kitaab al-Khiraj wa’l-imaarah wa’l-fay’). Abu Dawud also reported from al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah, may Allaah be pleased with him, that “the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) led us in prayer one day, then he turned to us and exhorted us strongly . . . (he said), ‘Pay attention to my sunnah (way) and the way of the Rightly-guided Khaleefahs after me, adhere to it and hold fast to it.’” (Saheeh Abi Dawud, Kitaab al-Sunnah). One of the brothers may Allah reward him did the Takhreej, Let me quote: After a quick search, I was able to found the most famous routes to this hadith of the Prophet (pbuh). As with most hadiths, the narrators start from Al-Madinah and spread through there with the passage of time. This is the case with most hadiths and specifically this two of the companions that narrated this died in Al-Madinah (Abu Huraira and Abu Rafi'i'). The hadith also spread through Al-Sham since both Al-Miqdam and Al-Irbadh bin Sariyah lived there during their last years. So, in a sense, this hadith spread simultaneously in two different regions at the same time. Then, later, with the passing of decades, the hadith spread from these two areas to several different areas, like Al-Kufa, Basra, Egypt, Baghdad, and finally the outer regions that are known as "the countries behind the river". The above hadith is narrated by: 1- Abu Dawud Al-Sijistani (Sijistan), through Ahmad bin Hanbal (Baghdad) and Abdullah bin Mohammed Al-Nufaili (Harran) through Sufyan (Mekkah) through Abi Al-Nadhr (Madinah) from Ubaidullah bin Abi Rafi’i (Al-Madinah) from his father (Al-Madinah) from the Prophet (pbuh). 2- Abu Dawud (Sijistan) through Abdulwahab bin Najdah (Al-Shaam) from Abu Amr bin Katheer bin Dinar (Hims) from Hareez bin Uthman (Hims) from Abdulrahman bin Abi Awf (Hims) from Al-Miqdam bin Ma’adi (companion). 3- Abu Dawud (Sijistan) through Mohammed bin Eisa (Baghdad) from Ash’ath bin Shu’ba (Khurasan) from Arta’a bin Al-Munthir (Hims) from Hakeem bin Umair (Hims) from Al-Irbadh bin Sariyah (companion). 4- Al-Tirmithi (Tirmith) through Qutaibah (Balkh) from Sufyaan bin Uyaynah (Mekkah) from Mohammed bin Al-Munkadar (Madinah) and Salim Abi Al-Nadhr (Madinah) from Ubaidullah bin Abi Rafi’i (Al-Madinah) from Abi Rafi’ (companion). 5- Al-Timithi (Tirmith) from Mohammed bin Bashar (Basra) from Abdulrahman bin Mahdi (Basra) from Mu’awiyah bin Salih (Hims) from Al-Hasan bin Jabir Al-Lakhami (Hims) from Al-Miqdam bin Ma’di (companion). 6- Ibn Majah (Qazween) from Abu Bakr bin Abi Shaybah (Kufa) from Zaid bin Al-Hubbab (Kufa) from Mu’awiyah bin Salih (Hims) from Al-Hasan bin Jabir (Hims) from Al-Miqdam bin Ma’di (companion). 7- Ibn Majah (Qazween) from Nasr bin Ali Al-Jahdhami (Basra) from Sufyan bin Uyayna (Mekkah) from Salim Abu Nadhr (Madinah) from Ubaidullah bin Abi Rafi’i (Madinah) from his father (companion). 8- Ibn Majah (Qazween) from Ali bin Al-Munthir (Kufa) from Mohammed bin Al-Fudhail (Kufa) from Al-Maqburi (Madinah) from his grandfather (Madinah) from Abu Huraira (companion). 9- Ahmad bin Hanbal (Baghdad) from Suraij (Baghdad) from Abu Ma’shar (Madinah) from Sa’eed bin Abi Sa’eed Al-Maqburi (Madinah) from Abi Huraira (companion). 10- Ahmad bin Hanbal (Baghdad) from Ali bin Ishaaq (Tirmith) from Abdullah (Egypt) from Ibn Luhai’a (Egypt) from Abu Al-Nadhr (Madinah) from Ubaidullah bin Abi Rafi’i (Madinah) from his father (companion). 11- Al-Ruyani (Al-Ray) from Abu Mohammed Al-Zuhri and Sufyan bin Wakee’ (Kufa) from Sufyan bin Uyayna (Mekkah) from Salim Abi Al-Nadhr (Madinah) from Ubaidullah bin Abi Rafi’i (Madinah) from his father (companion).  wal-Salam 'Aleykum, |
|
|
01-05-2012, 05:47 AM
|
#2 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
01-05-2012, 06:16 AM
|
#3 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
01-05-2012, 04:02 PM
|
#4 |
|
|
 It makes me laugh and it makes me sad at the same time. Some guys trying to fit in Islam in their small brain. The Ulema of Islam were Savants, the best brains the world have ever seen and some guy who hasn't even learnt anything of deen wants to figure out Islam all by himself. This is what you get if a Mechanic tries to do Brain Surgery. 
|
|
|
|
01-05-2012, 04:05 PM
|
#5 |
|
|
 Tripolisunni.Really a good one. Bismillah, |
|
|
|
01-05-2012, 04:12 PM
|
#6 |
|
|
The authority of Sunnah
http://ebrahimsaifuddin.files.wordpr...aqi-usmani.pdf Let me know if the link doesn't work. |
|
|
|
01-05-2012, 04:58 PM
|
#7 |
|
|
Wow... so you choose to DELETE my two posts. Even after I have written my sincere aim and thoughts. La Wallah, you are the best "brothers in Islam" I have ever seen. It is my fault for assuming that I might find some people to discuss Islam and the thoughts that I have, instead of thinking through the rest of it alone (look at my login -- dawaheed = D.A. my initials and 'waheed' = alone ---- )
I am not going to be apologetic about what I see regarding Islam, Hadeeth, Mathhabs -- if you truly created this "sunniforum" for discussion, you would be prepared to hear from those Sunni that are finding and learning. I am tough in believing everything I read; "just because it is written down does not mean it is true" is one of the first lessons I learned, and I apply it to everything. And just so you guys know: I am 34 years old, born a Muslim in a Sunni (Malaki) family, and I lived my life between the Middle East, North Africa, and the United States -- and not ONCE did I consider Allah not to be above me, and that is why the Quran is the only exception I have every made to the 'rule' I have been taught. Believe me, throughout the years, the Quran has proven to me , and still does everyday, that it is truly the word of God. That is how the Shahada is my Eman. Not because it has been passed down from family, but because I have taken with full devotion and awareness of exactly what it means, fully aware and fully considering the option of completely rejecting it if it does not make sense in my heart. I was determined not to follow blindly. And not once did the Quran did not make sense, and not once did I feel blinded while reading it, and not once did its words not fill my heart, and not once did I doubt that these are the words of Allah. But since this forum has shown more and more that it will lock and delete counter thinking... I see that this is not the forum for exploring and learning; it is a forum for conforming and following. Assalamu 3alaikum =========================================== =========================================== And since I have it on my notepad, here AGAIN is the post that was deleted. Maybe someone might understand where my logic is coming from! ================================ You are not going to believe because you do not know what to believe. Your belief is relative to your intellect or shall I say relative moralism. I will never believe it. Here is why -- The Prophet would never put himself or his sayings above God and his Quraan. The fact that the last fragment of that Hadeeth is included spoils the entire Hadeeth. You can't go around saying "yeah this part of the Hadeeth is messed up, but the rest of it is good -- we should listen to it!" And will people stop saying that I am a Quranist or a rejector of Hadeeth every time I challenge a Hadeeth with some logic? If the Hadeeth makes sense and does not conflict with the Quran I have no problem with it! But the issue I have been posting is that Hadeeth does not supersede the Quran. The Quran is the only book that has not been altered or tainted by humans, where as the Hadeeths had two centuries of lingering undocumented until Bukhari and Muslim (and others, I only read these 2 for now) filtered and studied which would be correct and which would not be correct. And people keep on saying something to the effect of '1400 years of study can't be wrong' --- you know who you sound like? You sound like the people of Kuraish when Mohammad first told them of Islam and they should not be worshiping idols; they said "we have been doing this for many generations like our fathers". Just because something becomes a norm does not make it part of Islam nor does it make it Sunna. If the Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) was alive here today, YES we would follow his Sunna because it is right infront of us. But the fact is he was NOT alive when Islam got divided into two and he was NOT alive when the Hadeeth was written down. And when Bukhari wrote the Hadeeth, the boast is that there were MANY Hadeeths that he filtered down... does that not imply that everybody was just yapping stories and linking them to the Prophet...?! And from http://forums.*********************/...-hadiths-9733/ the total number of ahadith in the two 'Sahih's - without repetition - number roughly 2,980. Abu Dawud reported 2,450 ahadith not found in the Sahihayn. at-Tirmidhi reported 1,350 ahadith not reported by Abu Dawud, and not found in the Sahihayn. an-Nasa'i reported 2,400 ahadith not reported in the four collections mentioned above. So, the total number of ahadith reported in the 'Sunan' (of Abu Dawud, an-Nasa'i, and at-Tirmidhi) that are not reported in the two 'Sahih's number around 6,200. So, the from the five collections mentioned above which attempted to collect the authentic ahadith gathered a total of 9,180 ahadith, most of them being weak. Ibn Majah collected 600 ahadith not reported in the five collections mentioned above, with approximately 500 of those ahadith being weak. Malik's 'Muwatta'' contains 50 ahadith that are not found in the collections mentioned above. ash-Shawkani's 'Nayl al-Awtar' (which contains mostly ahadith well-known amongst the later scholars of Fiqh, and most of which are found in the 'Sunan' of ad-Daraqutni and the 'Mu'jam' of at-Tabarani) contains about 500 ahadith not found in the collections mentioned above. The 'Musnad' of Ahmad bin Hambal contains about 1,500 ahadith not found in any of the collections mentioned above. So, the total number of ahadith contained in all of the well-known collections are 11,830 in number, and - as mentioned earlier - about 4,400 of these are authentic. And Allah Knows best. What are all these numbers? Does it really stretch the mind to say that some of these might not be "authentic"? And more: Some interesting references to the numbers of Hadith, something I'm very interested in follow. Ibn al-Salah narrated from al-Bukhari: "I've memorized 100.000 sound Hadiths." al-Bayhaqi narrated from Ahmad: "From the Hadith some 700.000 are Sahih." al-Zarkashi from Ibn Rahawayh: "I've memorized 70.000 sound narrations, and 4000 forged ones." From all these, you DON'T want one to say (as this is exactly what I am doing) "Ok, since I am trying to find Islam --- I will start with the Quran and make it the core of everything I believe. After which I will go to the Hadeeth and read through it --- and I will know which are correct and which are not, because I have made the core of my belief the Quran." In the end, it is NOT rejecting Hadeeth --- it is rejecting 1) that ALL Hadeeth is true, 2) that Hadeeth is EQUAL to the Quran. |
|
|
|
01-05-2012, 05:00 PM
|
#8 |
|
|
Assalamu alaykum
A good article on munkireen-e-hadeeth http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/...=2816&act=view |
|
|
|
01-05-2012, 08:33 PM
|
#9 |
|
|
dawaheed, We have received the ahadith through the same channels that we have received the Quran. For any documents that have reached us from ancient times, we rely on the trustworthiness of the people who have narrated them to us. If we adopt the attitude that everything that we don't have original copies of right in front of our eyes is suspect, then how do you know that the entire Quran has reached us? How do you know that verses weren't lost? The Quran itself was not compiled until after the Prophet's death. None of us were there 15 centuries ago. But both the Quran and ahadith began to be compiled within the 1st century hijri, and we have no choice but to rely on those ancient people who took that burden upon themselves so that the Quran and sunnah would be preserved for you and me. This is why the ulemaa developed ilm ulrijaal, and why they probably threw out many ahadith that were actually said by the Prophet, because better to lose a real one than to keep a fake one. If you say the Quran has "always made sense" to you, then what about surah aal Imran...in there, the Quran itself tells us that it contains certain ayaat which are mutashabihaat- whose meaning is known only by Allah. So in the Quran itself there are ayaat which we can never truly comprehend. Nevertheless, Allah revealed them to us and we accept it. So why can we not accept ahadith that are perhaps beyond our understanding? I didn't get a chance to see your original posts, but if there are ahadith that you find illogical, I think you should create a separate thread and pose your objections and ask for explanations of them. You might be surprised at an explanation you never thought of before. As for the hadith in question here, I don't think the Prophet  by this statement is placing himself "above God and the Quran". One small example: the Quran orders us to pray, but doesn't say how. So the Prophet's instructing us on how to pray, is just as important, isn't it? Therefore the hadith makes perfect sense. Allah said in the quran, ma yantiqu anil hawa in huwa illaa wahyun yuhaa: http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?opt...697&Itemid=109
|
|
|
|
01-05-2012, 10:12 PM
|
#10 |
|
|
Salam 'Aleykum,
FYI the Hadith above is just as authentic as the Quran + it's transmitted by the same people. |
|
|
|
01-05-2012, 11:11 PM
|
#11 |
|
|
Wow... so you choose to DELETE my two posts. Even after I have written my sincere aim and thoughts. La Wallah, you are the best "brothers in Islam" I have ever seen. It is my fault for assuming that I might find some people to discuss Islam and the thoughts that I have, instead of thinking through the rest of it alone (look at my login -- dawaheed = D.A. my initials and 'waheed' = alone ---- ) I am not going to be apologetic about what I see regarding Islam, Hadeeth, Mathhabs -- if you truly created this "sunniforum" for discussion, you would be prepared to hear from those Sunni that are finding and learning. I am tough in believing everything I read; "just because it is written down does not mean it is true" is one of the first lessons I learned, and I apply it to everything. And just so you guys know: I am 34 years old, born a Muslim in a Sunni (Malaki) family, and I lived my life between the Middle East, North Africa, and the United States -- and not ONCE did I consider Allah not to be above me, and that is why the Quran is the only exception I have every made to the 'rule' I have been taught. Believe me, throughout the years, the Quran has proven to me , and still does everyday, that it is truly the word of God. That is how the Shahada is my Eman. Not because it has been passed down from family, but because I have taken with full devotion and awareness of exactly what it means, fully aware and fully considering the option of completely rejecting it if it does not make sense in my heart. I was determined not to follow blindly. And not once did the Quran did not make sense, and not once did I feel blinded while reading it, and not once did its words not fill my heart, and not once did I doubt that these are the words of Allah. But since this forum has shown more and more that it will lock and delete counter thinking... I see that this is not the forum for exploring and learning; it is a forum for conforming and following. If you want to believe the Prophet Mohammad would say "that I have warned and commanded and prohibited things that are as important as what is in the Qur’aan, if not more so.", go right ahead. It says that people will come and they will reject the orders of the Prophet SAWS and claim that they follow only the Quran, nothing else. He SAWS forbade this. I will never believe it. Here is why -- The Prophet would never put himself or his sayings above God and his Quraan. Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire. (3) It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired, (4) So the words of the Prophet SAWS in religious matters are inspired by Allah, Allah is telling you that there are things not included in the Quran and they are just as important, the first important thing is the explanation of the Quran, without this explanation that is transmitted through narrations, lots of parts from the Quran could never be understood or translated to English, The only reason you're reading the Quran in English is because of these Ahadith. The fact that the last fragment of that Hadeeth is included spoils the entire Hadeeth. You can't go around saying "yeah this part of the Hadeeth is messed up, but the rest of it is good -- we should listen to it!" As for the First Hadith I posted thee chains are listed below it, all of them trustworthy narrators and all of them narrating the same exact words. And will people stop saying that I am a Quranist or a rejector of Hadeeth every time I challenge a Hadeeth with some logic? If the Hadeeth makes sense and does not conflict with the Quran I have no problem with it! But the issue I have been posting is that Hadeeth does not supersede the Quran. The Quran is the only book that has not been altered or tainted by humans, where as the Hadeeths had two centuries of lingering undocumented until Bukhari and Muslim (and others, I only read these 2 for now) filtered and studied which would be correct and which would not be correct. And what you said about Bukhari and Muslim is wrong, they weren't the first, Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Malik, Sahhefat 'Abdul-Rhman bin'Amro, Saheefat 'Ali bin abi Talib ect... all written before Bukhari and Muslim. Besides don't you believe that the Quran was not preserved by being written? don't you believe that it was preserved in the hearts of the Muslims who memorized it? Well they also memorized the Hadith. And people keep on saying something to the effect of '1400 years of study can't be wrong' --- you know who you sound like? You sound like the people of Kuraish when Mohammad first told them of Islam and they should not be worshiping idols; they said "we have been doing this for many generations like our fathers". Just because something becomes a norm does not make it part of Islam nor does it make it Sunna. If the Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) was alive here today, YES we would follow his Sunna because it is right infront of us. But the fact is he was NOT alive when Islam got divided into two and he was NOT alive when the Hadeeth was written down. Say: Obey Allah and the messenger. But if they turn away, lo! Allah loveth not the disbelievers (in His guidance). [3:32] Did the verse say "Obey the messenger as long as he's alive" ? or quit obeying him right after he dies? So after the Messenger SAWS dies you stop obeying his words? Didn't Allah warn us from it? Muhammad is but a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) have passed away before him. Will it be that, when he dies or is slain, ye will turn back on your heels? He who turneth back on his heels doth no hurt to Allah, and Allah will reward the thankful. [3:144] And when Bukhari wrote the Hadeeth, the boast is that there were MANY Hadeeths that he filtered down... does that not imply that everybody was just yapping stories and linking them to the Prophet...?! "Let me not find one of you reclining on his couch, when he hears something regarding me which I have commanded or forbidden and saying: We do not know. What we found in Allah's Book we have followed." Then I presented 11 chains for it below, thus I could say "I memorized 11 Hadiths", I hope you understand and I am sure the guy who gave you these numbers above and the quotations of the scholars already knows this but he's playing you for a fool and he succeeded because as you see, you had no idea. From all these, you DON'T want one to say (as this is exactly what I am doing) "Ok, since I am trying to find Islam --- I will start with the Quran and make it the core of everything I believe. After which I will go to the Hadeeth and read through it --- and I will know which are correct and which are not, because I have made the core of my belief the Quran." And regarding your conclusion: You reject that all Hadiths are true, and so does everyone else on this forum, nothing new here. You rejected that Hadiths are equal to the Quran, Technically both are from God so they're the same and the only reason scholars drop a weak narration that contradicts the Quran is mainly because the Quran is stronger in terms of authenticity. wal-Salam, |
|
|
|
01-06-2012, 06:22 AM
|
#12 |
|
|
Short Documentary against Hadith rejecters:
Part 1/3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9dUg3ASRCw Part 2/3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RJwYYRJ3dg Part 3/3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kS58pwrGUM |
|
|
|
01-06-2012, 06:51 AM
|
#13 |
|
|
When a hadith rejector rejects hadith, it is not because they think it is contrary to the Quran; in fact, they reject hadith because they are contrary to their own desires. They are all modernists; some try and say homosexuality is halal, some try and say stoning (rajm) is not a punishment, some try and say the five prayers are not obligatory and so on. This is the bottom line; they do not follow Islam but only Shaytan
|
|
|
| Reply to Thread New Thread |
«
Previous Thread
|
Next Thread
»
Linear Mode
| Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
