[BypeVupyide]

Madhhab_Map2.jpg

If this picture of the Islamic world does not make you sad...

Brothers, let your differences go and embrace the one thing you have in common! Allah and the Quran!

I don't see any Ahle Quran (Munkireen Hadith) in this picture

[googlopharm]

Contrary to expections, negation of madhab and hadiths leads to greater fitna as you'll have to repeat history by reinterpreting the Quran and re-formulating principles and over which a 1000 sects will emerge all claiming to follow the right Quran while someone will even go on to claim that certain Quranic verses are daeef.

Sunni's instead tap onto the rich history of realiable scholarship connecting us to the Prophet saas.

Do not underestimate the Quraan. It does not suffer the same characteristics of Hadeeth.

(36) "Which none do eat but those in sin." (37) So I do call to witness what ye see (38) And what ye see not, (39) That this is verily the word of an honoured messenger; (40) It is not the word of a poet: little it is ye believe! (41) Nor is it the word of a soothsayer: little admonition it is ye receive. (42) (This is) a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds. (43) And if the messenger were to invent any sayings in Our name, (44) We should certainly seize him by his right hand, (45) And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart: (46) Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath). (47) But verily this is a Message for the Allah-fearing. (48) And We certainly know that there are amongst you those that reject (it) (49) But truly (Revelation) is a cause of sorrow for the Unbelievers. (50) But verily it is Truth of assured certainty. (51) So glorify the name of thy Lord Most High. (52)
(69: 36-52)

No need to tap into anything other than that which is true and sent down from the Allah, so much that even if the Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) himself were to invent anything he would receive immediate punishment!

[mincarlie.frymyer]

Mohammad (SAAW) would probably cry if he saw how his nation is divided against itself.[/QUOTE]

Yeah! in your world everything is devisive apart from the fascist take on relegion. I'm follower of hanafi school of Jurisprudance and sit in the lecture conducted by Malaki School and have no problem with it where as the la madhabi have problem with everyone! Inshallah we will never unite under the relegious fascist. According to your simple minded take Shaba were also wrong because they differed. Do you even know what is acceptable and what is not!! from the sound of things you can't even differentiate between hukum and euphism!! Quran and Sunnah slogan without knowing the meaning!! The only people who used to hold such view are the self declared super pious people Khawarij of the past. But then again they will exist till the end of days! The difference in matter of belief is not allowed to the point it becomes a sect. The difference within furu was never seen as devisive untill the postmodernist muslim who think they discovered islam after reading few books published thanks to regrissive Petro dollar bedu.

[HaroTaure]

Salam 'Aleykum,

Actually I feel really safe and happy with hanafis, malikis, shafi'is, hanbalis, salafis, sufis ... But I don't like Quranists because their entire existence is an EVIL Ftinah.

[googlopharm]

Yeah! in your world everything is devisive apart from the fascist take on relegion. I'm follower of hanafi school of Jurisprudance and sit in the lecture conducted by Malaki School and have no problem with it where as the la madhabi have problem with everyone! Inshallah we will never unite under the relegious fascist. According to your simple minded take Shaba were also wrong because they differed. Do you even know what is acceptable and what is not!! from the sound of things you can't even differentiate between hukum and euphism!! Quran and Sunnah slogan without knowing the meaning!! The only people who used to hold such view are the self declared super pious people Khawarij of the past. But then again they will exist till the end of days! The difference in matter of belief is not allowed to the point it becomes a sect. The difference within furu was never seen as devisive untill the postmodernist muslim who think they discovered islam after reading few books published thanks to regrissive Petro dollar bedu.

When there are political goals at stake, the Madhhab will fight each other. Don't be so naive. Politics is full of "them vs. us" mentality that political leaders use to their advantage. Right now you don't see it because there are bigger "thems" -- Shiaa, Jews, Christians, etc --- But put forth a circumstance where only Hanafis and Malakis are around and there is some political "chair" that needs to be taken -- then you will see how they will wage the quarrel of "them vs. us".

As I pointed out before --- things will always be ok when you have a common enemy (a bigger "them") --- but once that falls, you turn to the next "them". We need to remove labels from Muslims to avoid the entire "us vs. them" scenario.

Heck -- why are we even talking about Islam -- take SOCCER! Everybody roots for the national team, but when the national team gets divided into Football Clubs, people that were within the same crowd get divided! This is not a complicated concept that is not seen everyday!

[NvrNoNowX]

The 4 imams had great respect for each other and their madhabs though just had slightly different interpretation.
How many salaat do Quranists read in a day, just wondering.

[lodsemelf]

the reasons for the divisions of this umma ( bearing in mind sufism and madhabs r not sects at all) is because the aqaid of the umma have gone wrong. the reason for the this is because the ummas connection with the quran has finished. if u take not a 1000 but even 10,000 muslims and asked who has studied the quran. by studying i mean the tafsirs, the sciencesi in the quran and even the mehfoom of the words only a few people will put their hands up. this disconnection of the quran has led to the divisions and forming of sects.

[Beragagnu]

The madahib have been around for a while - when have they ever fought each other based on madhabs alone - I never hear any Muqalid ever have animosity for one of the other 3 madhabs, it only comes from people like dawaheed

[lodsemelf]

When there are political goals at stake, the Madhhab will fight each other. Don't be so naive. Politics is full of "them vs. us" mentality that political leaders use to their advantage. Right now you don't see it because there are bigger "thems" -- Shiaa, Jews, Christians, etc --- But put forth a circumstance where only Hanafis and Malakis are around and there is some political "chair" that needs to be taken -- then you will see how they will wage the quarrel of "them vs. us".

As I pointed out before --- things will always be ok when you have a common enemy (a bigger "them") --- but once that falls, you turn to the next "them". We need to remove labels from Muslims to avoid the entire "us vs. them" scenario.

Heck -- why are we even talking about Islam -- take SOCCER! Everybody roots for the national team, but when the national team gets divided into Football Clubs, people that were within the same crowd get divided! This is not a complicated concept that is not seen everyday!

this statement is full of ignorance

[AlexBrith]

First of all there is a ignorance in understanding the concept of Madhabs. Madhabs are not 'sects'.

A sect will claim that it is the only right path. Madhabs unanimously agree they all are in the right path. It is why the people following Madhabs are called Ahle sunnah wal Jamaah. Madhabs are based on permitted differences in opinion regarding only 'Fiqh' matters. This was permitted by Rasoolullah at his time, when the Sahabah interpreted differently. Take the best scholars of Islam, they have after their name, As-shafi', Al Hanafi, Al Maliki, Al hambali. Yes the best of the scholars followed Madhabs, and they are the inheritors of knowledge from the Prophet . The Imams of the 4 school of thoughts were Salaf themselves and took knowledge directly from the best 3 generations, the Sahabah, Tabieen, Tabi'tabieen.

There is NO division here. The only reason the forums have Madhabs listed is to help people to clear Fiqh doubts according to the Madhab mentioned. This notion of 'Madhabs are bad' they cause division are actually a distraction and a trick of shaytaan to take us further from the truth. There is Not a SINGLE unbroken chain of Quran and the Sunnah which do not have the Scholars of Madhabs in them. Don't you get it, the Connection of The knowledge from Rasoolullah passed on to the Sahabah are the Scholars.

The REAL division in the Muslim Ummah is NATIONALISM. If you want to see division and discrimination among Muslim TODAY, look at nationalism. Muslims today do not ask which madhab you are from, rather they ask which country you are from. Their is no racism with regards to Madhabs, but RACISM exist with Nationalism. We have Muslims on both sides of the war, killing each other in the name of 'patriotism'. THIS is the real DIVISION. Think brothers and sisters, think. The Imams of Madhabs were students of each other and held each others in high regard, they did not catch each others throats. But today we muslims are at each others throats in the name of Nationalism.

If we look around in real life, it is rampant. NATIONALISM is what DIVIDES our Ummah. Not Madhabs.

[lodsemelf]

First of all there is a ignorance in understanding the concept of Madhabs. Madhabs are not 'sects'.

A sect will claim that it is the only right path. Madhabs unanimously agree they all are in the right path. It is why the people following Madhabs are called Ahle sunnah wal Jamaah. Madhabs are based on permitted differences in opinion regarding only 'Fiqh' matters. This was permitted by Rasoolullah at his time, when the Sahabah interpreted differently. Take the best scholars of Islam, they have after their name, As-shafi', Al Hanafi, Al Maliki, Al hambali. Yes the best of the scholars followed Madhabs, and they are the inheritors of knowledge from the Prophet . The Imams of the 4 school of thoughts were Salaf themselves and took knowledge directly from the best 3 generations, the Sahabah, Tabieen, Tabi'tabieen.

There is NO division here. The only reason the forums have Madhabs listed is to help people to clear Fiqh doubts according to the Madhab mentioned. This notion of 'Madhabs are bad' they cause division are actually a distraction and a trick of shaytaan to take us further from the truth. There is Not a SINGLE unbroken chain of Quran and the Sunnah which do not have the Scholars of Madhabs in them. Don't you get it, the Connection of The knowledge from Rasoolullah passed on to the Sahabah are the Scholars.

The REAL division in the Muslim Ummah is NATIONALISM. If you want to see division and discrimination among Muslim TODAY, look at nationalism. Muslims today do not ask which madhab you are from, rather they ask which country you are from. Their is no racism with regards to Madhabs, but RACISM exist with Nationalism. We have Muslims on both sides of the war, killing each other in the name of 'patriotism'. THIS is the real DIVISION. Think brothers and sisters, think. The Imams of Madhabs were students of each other and held each others in high regard, they did not catch each others throats. But today we muslims are at each others throats in the name of Nationalism.

If we look around in real life, it is rampant. NATIONALISM is what DIVIDES our Ummah. Not Madhabs.

very very very good post mashallah!!!

jurisprudence is simply a branch of islam and in this branch four schools have emerged. just like universities in different cities with thier own name but all the universities have the same curiculam. in the same way the curiculam for the madhabs is the same it is the quran and sunnah they just have different names.

[mincarlie.frymyer]

I have been muslim for all my life and actually know the leader who initiated the Salafi dawah movement in UK and publised a lot of the books and their take and your take is wide apart. Know this we are not madhabist which is devisive. As for political power, this is obvious in all walks of life. One is always dominant based on the level of scholarship in the land. Hence you have Malaki School has prominance in Africa and former Muslim Spain. So is Hanafi schools in parts of shams, indo pak and former sovient union.
Did you even read what others have written? So you think the salfs are wrong along with sahaba who also differed! Delusion of greandeure!! The fact that you are comparing science of deen to a football says a lot about your grasp of relegious knowledge!!
You are full of supposition and come to think of it talking to someone who knows zilch about the madhab and methodology, history is a waste of time.
INSHALLAH We will never unite under the lamadhabi Fascist. Ironic is it not - breeding dissunity in the name of unity!! It was the la madhabi who started us vs you among the laymen ( one would think this is aqida issue for the lamadhabist, perhaps it pathological syndrome and deseassed heart!!

[googlopharm]

It is regretable that accusations come so easily.

I put forth to you the argument of how the "them vs. us" mentality functions, and yet you cling that it will not happen because the differences are "not enough" for you to wage war against one another --- Sunnis will stand together no matter what Madhhab they are from...

Yet you don't look at the History of conflicts and the nature of people. People seek out differences among themselves in order to distinguish themselves and to create the "us vs them" as part of feeding the ego and saying "we" are better then "them".
====================
A classic joke regarding this matter:
فيه يا بوصالح؟
بوصالح: قاعد افكر بديننا الاسلامي ماشاء الله منتشر في أقاصي الارض وأدناها.. شوف شكثرهم في الصين والهند
بو راشد: اي ماشالله
بو صالح: بس تدري يا بوراشد.. هذول ما يعرفون من الدين الا القشور.. أشكالهم مثل الكفار.. ما يشابهونا الا بالصلاة.. تبي العلم وانا خوك.. الدين الصحيح عندنا احنا العرب.. احنا اللي نفهم القرآن والسنة عدل
بوراشد: عز الله انك صاج
بوصالح: والصج ينقال.. مو كل العرب بعد يفهمون الدين عدل.. عندك هالزلمات وهالمصاروة والمغاربة الدين عندهم مدري شلون قايل.. الدين طال عمرك عندنا احنا في الجزيرة العربية ! ء
بوراشد: اي وانت الصاج
بوصالح: والله حتى الجزيرة ما خلت من الخمور والاختلاط والسفور.. الدين بس بالسعودية! ء
بو راشد: أن اشهد انك ما كذبت
بوصالح: بس بيني وبينك بوراشد.. أهل الشرقية ما يغطون وجوه حريمهم.. واهل الغربية صار عندهم اختلاط.. والجنوب انتشر فيه البدع والعياذ بالله.. الدين الصح بالقصيم وبس .. أهل السنة والجماعة
بو راشد: عدل عدل
بوصالح: أقول.. بس طالعين لنا هالشباب هاليومين بالتفحيط والتدخين ويسمعون راشد ومجيد.. الفرقة الناجية وانا خوك في بريدة ! ء
بوراشد: أنت صح
بوصالح: بس والله يا بوراشد شوف أهل الفريج اللي جنبنا.. حاطين دشوش على سطوحهم اللي تعرض الفسق والفجور.. خذها مني.. الدين عند فريجنا وبس
بوراشد: الله يفتح عليك
بوصالح: أقووول بوراشد.. ما تلاحظ الجماعة صاروا ثقال على الصلاة شوي؟ ما قمنا نشوفهم بالمسجد على طول.. بوراشد ما بقى الا انا وانت! ء
بوراشد: مممممم؟؟؟
بوصالح: بس بوراشد اشوفك هاليومين ما تخشع بصلاتك زين !!


Basically the story goes that 2 old people are talking about how blessed they are to have Islam and they are not like those in India and China --- "Thank God we are Arabs". Then they talk about how not all Arabs follow proper Islam, to look there and here and they say "Thank God we are from Saudi Arabia". Then they talk than not all those Saudis are following proper Islam etc and they say "Thank God we are from the north"...

Until the very end they say to each other "Only us two follow proper Islam"... and then the friend turns to his friend and says "You know, I notice these days that YOU are not doing '7ashi3 in your prayer..."

===============

Look at the Jews and Christians and how many different books they have, how many different divisions they have, how many languages they have, how many translations of texts, etc. We are NOT like them because the greatest Miracle of God is between our hands -- the Quran -- untainted and pure word of God. We talk about ONE God, ONE book... and then falter from there on out...

And I second the nationalism division that an other poster mentioned! Yes! -- who put forth these nationalist divisions? Who divided the Arab nations into countries and borders that we see today? Was it not the colonists, whether English or French? Was this not all one Islamic nation? We need to unite nationally as well... but when you unite nationally... what will happen when you do that? You would still be dividing Muslims into categories of Arabs, Africans, Asians, etc. They are all Muslim and yet you divided them down.

And if you unite those categories, you still would be left with the categories of Sunni Shiia --- and within those you would have the Madhhabs... Where does the segregation stop?!

I told you that we need to start small and in THIS FORUM, need to discard of the labels under our names of "Madhhab" -- simply say 'Muslim', and that is all that matters.

[Belindanan]

I have been muslim for all my life and actually know the leader who initiated the Salafi dawah movement in UK and publised a lot of the books and their take and your take is wide apart. Know this we are not madhabist which is devisive. As for political power, this is obvious in all walks of life. One is always dominant based on the level of scholarship in the land. Hence you have Malaki School has prominance in Africa and former Muslim Spain. So is Hanafi schools in parts of shams, indo pak and former sovient union.
Did you even read what others have written? So you think the salfs are wrong along with sahaba who also differed! Delusion of greandeure!! The fact that you are comparing science of deen to a football says a lot about your grasp of relegious knowledge!!
You are full of supposition and come to think of it talking to someone who knows zilch about the madhab and methodology, history is a waste of time.
INSHALLAH We will never unite under the lamadhabi Fascist. Ironic is it not - breeding dissunity in the name of unity!! It was the la madhabi who started us vs you among the laymen ( one would think this is aqida issue for the lamadhabist, perhaps it pathological syndrome and deseassed heart!!

The issue with this person is not that he is a 'la madhabist' as you spend literally every post ranting poisonously about, but rather, that he is a hadith-rejector and thus a disbeliever.

[mincarlie.frymyer]

Bismillah
I have personally witness someone adherent to Shafi school of thought being corrected in Shafi Jurisprudance by a scholar adherent to Hanafi Schools. I also know Staunch Hanafi scholars writing extensively in Malaki Schools, highly regarded by Malaki Scholars of today!!
It seem the only people seems to have problem are those sick in mind and projects their idotic notion of relegious sciences on others. Go away!! Which part did you not understand: we are not madhabist but adherent to school of thought!!! Do you get into some sort of brain ceaser the moment word differing props up!! Had enough of this! Salam and now go away!! Never will we ever invite under moronic notion of relegious sciences.
Do you even know under the command of Ghazi Salaudddin Ayubi there were people of different schools of thoughts and also sufis of various methodology!! I guss not!! Now go away!!
The la madhabi when spend enough time do end up rejecting the hadith!! Punishment for the sick and deseassed people!! I differentiate between ghair muqalid,Salafist and Lamadhabi!!

[AlexBrith]

It is regretable that accusations come so easily.

No need to tap into anything other than that which is true and sent down from the Allah, so much that even if the Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) himself were to invent anything he would receive immediate punishment!

First get a grip over yourself. You have no license for your tongue. First go seek knowledge, before accusing the Hadith.

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
By the star when it descends, (1)
Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred, (2)
Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. (3)
(Quran 53 An Najm)

You don't even know the Quran properly. I saw someone in the first page jumping to support this guy. This is the sad state of our ummah. Everybody wants to interpret Islam in their own way.

[Belindanan]

Again, this person is a hadith rejector and his 'la madhabism' is a secondary manifestation of this primary issue.

Stop talking like an insane person.

[googlopharm]

First get a grip over yourself. You have no license for your tongue. First go seek knowledge, before accusing the Hadith.

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
By the star when it descends, (1)
Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred, (2)
Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. (3)
(Quran 53 An Najm)

You don't even know the Quran properly. I saw someone in the first page jumping to support this guy. This is the sad state of our ummah. Everybody wants to interpret Islam in their own way.

You are arguing with me or against me -- I would have sworn that I was saying the exact same thing --- that the Quran is not Prophet Mohammad's invention. Are you trying to add to my point?

And why do people keep on jumping to the conclusion that I am a Quranist or a rejecting all Hadeeth? So far I have only said that I have a problem with Hadeeth that conflicts with the Quraan.


For those of you that still don't understand what ISLAM is about, hear this! "Ash-hadu an la ellah illa Allah" means that I bear witness that there is no God except Allah. And "Ash-hadu anna Mohammad rasool Allah" means that I bear witness that Mohammad is his messenger.

What message did he bring from Allah? The Quran. Read it and make it the base of your faith and reject ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that conflicts with the word of Allah all Mighty --- after that, you are free to do what you wish. Got a Hadeeth that is wise and useful that does not conflict with the Quran? Excellent. Got one that conflicts with God's book? Throw that Hadeeth into the dust bin because the Prophet Mohammad WOULD NOT SAY ANYTHING THAT CONFLICTS WITH THE WORD OF GOD!!!! And yes, I dare say "DUST BIN" -- We should not prefer the words of anybody over the words of Allah -- point blank, and the Prophet is innocent of the lies that are being said on his tongue!

[Bletlemof]

A reminder to all the usual SF users:

You seem to be a remnant of the previous so called Quranists who were posting on here. Allah knows best who and what you are. All the points you are raising are the same doubts which your whole group constantly regurgitate and, alhamdulillah, every point has been answered and challenged. Read the whole thread if you want to know. If you still can't find the answers, we'll point out where.

Very simply, we haven't got spare time to waste on you.

Bye.

PS. REQUEST TO ALL ON THIS FORUM NOT TO BOTHER ANSWERING THIS PERSON. ALL THEIR QUESTIONS HAVE ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED.

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ieve-in-hadith

[Ehlgamxf]

A reminder to all the usual SF users:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ieve-in-hadith

This world is a strange place brother Sulaiman. Once I sat for quite some time in the clinic of a physician. What I saw was that the medicine to most of the patients was the same. And this person sees around four hundred people everyday. On that particular day the reason for repeated medicine happened to be the fact that majority of the patients were that were suffering from symptoms that appear after the weather changes the course drastically. This happens several times in a year in India. Now coming back to the subject matter of the present thread my feeling is that every person who has gone through that phase of life where he wants to simplify Islam by omitting unnecessary things like the Traditions will go through the same routine - if Allah(SWT) wants to guide him. We have to serve the same medicine again and again. Wallahualam.
Wassalam